Capitalists, artisans and vaping

[Alien Traveler]

I am tired hearing all the crap about quality and intellectual efforts driving “authentic” prices up. Somehow Chinese can design and manufacture successful product for very acceptable price (Subtank, nautilus, etc.). They happens to know what capitalism is about: maximize profit by maximizing production, fight for market share. Unfortunately most western designers in vaping have medieval mind set, the one of artisan. They want to make a few pieces and get as much money for each of them as possible. They are not interested in market share, they are afraid of mass production, they are outdated. They will survive as a niche dwellers (boutiques, if you will), not as mainstream players.

 

[Bad Ninja]

Chinese company :$ 2.5 million a year, ability to produce 5,000 units a month, state of the art equipment, government funding, 200 employees.

Us Modder: backyard shop, no phone, Facebook only sales, needs pre order cash to buy materials, struggles to fill orders, maybe 500 units total production.

Use yer head here.
Which one screams quality?

 

[Thrasher]

Hey smart guy on top of what's already said did you also know China subsidizes industry over there?

Its easy to claim this bs when all they do is copy.
I doubt they could engineer a kayfun4. If you think that's just talk go to svoe mesto and check out the parts diagram. Guy didn't pop this out overnight.



PS the subtanks are disposable coil junk based off of the kayfun/taifun design. You really use this throwaway junk as proof of innovation? Please.

 

[caramel]

Hey smart guy on top of what's already said did you also know China subsidizes industry over there?

Tell me about corn and how "corn products" get into my gas tank as a filler.

 

[Thrasher]

I will I will also tell you how corn subsidies keep the price of soda artificially low.

Now your turn

Please show me proof of an industrial complex in america supported by our govt artificially adjusting the worldwide monitary exchange rate,........



China absolutely will not allow inflation to affect the yen. If inflation starts the govt pumps billions of dollars into the banks to force it back down, even if the govt has to go broke to do it, they will this is how they hold their manufacturing and export dominance.


This is NOT capitalism by any means, this is forced dominance

This is why every country hates lending China money

 

[danfinger]

I'm tired of hearing songs on the radio where the singer is auto-tuned and no one in the "band" can play an instrument.

Products that get mass consumption man! How do it werk?

 

[Baditude]

About a year ago there were nearly daily debates about Provape (USA-made Provari) vs China-made regulated mods. Many said they were happy with their less expensive mods from China and why would anyone pay so much for a Provari? Well, until that China-made mod stopped working and they had no choice but buy ANOTHER. And ANOTHER. And ANOTHER...

China doesn't do repair work on their products. They build for today's disposable society. Build cheap, sell cheap; Break? Buy another.

I guess I'm old school or old fashioned -- that approach isn't for me. Most American companies build better products, back their products, provide legitimate warranties, and will support the product for life. I have used my Provari's daily for 2 1/2 years without a hitch. My earlier China-made mods (the ones I didn't have to throw away) are in a drawer collecting dust. FOR ME, it was worth spending extra for quality and piece of mind.

No one is forcing you to buy anything. Pay for what you want, you'll get what you paid for.

 

[djsvapour]

Is there room in the world for both?

I think so.

 

[Bad Ninja]

One point that gets over looked:
Early high end mods that pretty much established the pricing structure did not come for
The United States. They came from the Philippines.

Cost of production didn't set the pricing, Pinoy did.
Other modders entered the industry and now all compete at that original
Price point.
As always, when demand rises, prices either drop accordingly or someone takes advantage of the situation.
China took advantage of the situation.


On a personal note:
I do believe authentics in general are better made than clones. But not always.
And the differences in quality do not justify the price gap.

If authentic modders priced mods around $100-150, and offered real customer service ( none of that Facebook crap, real businesses with contact numbers, dedicated websites, a physical address and a business lisc ), there wouldn't be a market for clones.


Your spiffy logo on a tube doesn't grant you my loyalty or my patronage.

Respect is earned, and never should be expected.

 

[caramel]

Now your turn

Please show me proof of an industrial complex in america supported by our govt artificially adjusting the worldwide monitary exchange rate,........

Petrodollar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[caramel]

As for the original post: if you can't afford an expensive item, then so be it. No need to pretend you don't like it. Sour grapes et all.

 

[inswva]

*sigh*...

It's easy to crank out cheap products when you've got an unlimited supply of laborers willing to work for practically nothing.

 

[crxess]

About a year ago there were nearly daily debates about Provape (USA-made Provari) vs China-made regulated mods. Many said they were happy with their less expensive mods from China and why would anyone pay so much for a Provari? Well, until that China-made mod stopped working and they had no choice but buy ANOTHER. And ANOTHER. And ANOTHER...

China doesn't do repair work on their products. They build for today's disposable society. Build cheap, sell cheap; Break? Buy another.

I guess I'm old school or old fashioned -- that approach isn't for me. Most American companies build better products, back their products, provide legitimate warranties, and will support the product for life. I have used my Provari's daily for 2 1/2 years without a hitch. My earlier China-made mods (the ones I didn't have to throw away) are in a drawer collecting dust. FOR ME, it was worth spending extra for quality and piece of mind.

No one is forcing you to buy anything. Pay for what you want, you'll get what you paid for.

Sorry Bad, my eVic's and Vamo are still working fine.

For me, the difference was not spending to much on something I may move away from. I don't resell my gear.
Even with my 4 recent Regulated purchases I am only around the full up price of a single Provari. All the mods sit topped and ready for the moment to moment swaps.
Provari is excellent, but it doesn't always fit the users desires.

Imagine buying 12 Provari's for daily use

 

[caramel]

*sigh*...

It's easy to crank out cheap products when you've got an unlimited supply of laborers willing to work for practically nothing.

They're not working for nothing. It will surprise you, but from a purchasing power POV (on internal market), the Chinese have surpassed you.

China Economy Surpasses US In Purchasing Power, But Americans Don't Need To Worry

It all comes from the exchange rate and it's not the Chinese at fault (see the "petrodollar" previously mentioned).

 

[Bad Ninja]

*sigh*...

It's easy to crank out cheap products when you've got an unlimited supply of laborers willing to work for practically nothing.

Yep
Much harder when workers and laborers demand $100 an hour.

That's why GM sells $50k pickup trucks.


In the end that's exactly what it boils down to:
Profit and cost of labor.
Material cost when discussing mech mods is irrelevant. You are paying 10x more for authentics because the Modder makes 10x more for his time.

 

[caramel]

To build on the previous post about China's purchasing power: the average Chinese can buy more smokes and vapes than you, and on top of it, their government ain't vilifying them for that.

 

[Alien Traveler]

Hey smart guy on top of what's already said did you also know China subsidizes industry over there?

Fortune 500 companies receive $63 billion in subsidies
Fortune 500 companies receive $63 billion in subsidies | PandoDaily

Companies listed on China's stock exchanges received 85.68 billion yuan ($13.83 billion)
Chinese Industrial Subsidies Grow 23% - WSJ

So, who's subsidies bigger?

Its easy to claim this bs when all they do is copy.
I doubt they could engineer a kayfun4. If you think that's just talk go to svoe mesto and check out the parts diagram. Guy didn't pop this out overnight.

I know, I know, only Russian can do it.

PS the subtanks are disposable coil junk based off of the kayfun/taifun design. You really use this throwaway junk as proof of innovation? Please.

Tanks highly preferred by American citizens are junk? How unpatriotic.

 

[DC2]

I rarely, if ever, participate in these discussions...

The drivers of innovation are the artisans.
And they will usually only do so if they see a profit potential.

If the profit potential is removed, the motivation for most would be gone.
That's the bottom line in my opinion.

Given that, I'm not sure why these types of threads have so many posts.

 

[Alien Traveler]

As for the original post: if you can't afford an expensive item, then so be it. No need to pretend you don't like it. Sour grapes et all.

How do you know I cannot afford it?
I do not want it.

I am sorry you have to make such futile assumptions to support your point.

 

[Alien Traveler]

I rarely, if ever, participate in these discussions...

The drivers of innovation are the artisans.

In medieval society - yes.