I was actually thinking the same thing, but I think an auction section would be a good idea. It is what it is, be more transparent about it and let the market dictate.
Change ECF Classifieds Rules to not allow profiteering !
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I was actually thinking the same thing, but I think an auction section would be a good idea. It is what it is, be more transparent about it and let the market dictate.
I also think that you should not be allowed to edit out the price of something in a multi item ad, or any ad, once it has sold. It would also be nice to see what the price of things actually sold for. The ad is public, the price should be too!!!
EDIT: You have to post a price in your add, you should have to leave it and state what it sold for too. Otherwise this is a hypocritical rule.
EDIT: You have to post a price in your add, you should have to leave it and state what it sold for too. Otherwise this is a hypocritical rule.
Agreed, and it gives you a good idea of a fair price to sell for.
I think if someone wants to list something above retail, fine. If someone wants to pay above retail for it fine. But let others chime in if the price is to high. If someone is selling a common $50 mod for $100 let others chime in and point people to where they can get this mod for $50. As its set now people are allowed to say what a great price it is, why not let them say what a ripoff it is?
Simple you. An post once a quarter one item and your done
Sent from my truck using 3 toasters a broken microwave and 6 rubber bands McGyver style......Chuck Norris aint got crap on me
Sent from my truck using 3 toasters a broken microwave and 6 rubber bands McGyver style......Chuck Norris aint got crap on me
AND, I'd just like to say it's nice to see an intelligent discussion here with everyone involved being so "polite." Seriously, it's good to see that we all respect each others' opinions. I see a lot of good points being made in this thread.
^This. I got a spanking for asking what retail price on a mod was. I just wanted to know what the actual retail price was. I can check blue book value on a used car, I can ask what it sold for new, and then I can make a decision. I have never understood why it wasn't allowed to simply ask what the item costs new from the original vendor. If it were allowed, or people were allowed to post it, people that may be unaware can decide whether they want to pay $400 for a $150 item or not.
Well, I'm just as sick and tired of seeing the comments in the classifieds threads popping up, getting deleted and dividing the boards as the rest of you guys. Unfortunately, it looks like I am of the minority opinion as far as the topic is concerned. So here is my take.
We are all adults here (according to the rules) and as such we should act like adults. To me that means acting rationally, responsibly and realistically. The problem with the whining I read every day regarding the classifieds and "profiteering" is that those doing it are not acting like adults.
Take this poll for example: While I definitely believe in the right to individual opinions and with it the right to voice them, the poll in this thread is asinine. The only reasonable answer is to leave the rules as they are. The other options are ridiculous.
Yes change the Classifieds to not for profit , only allowed to sell for retail cost.
To begin, this is a forum to unite a community - globally. Most of us here are fortunate enough to live in a free market society with an economy that allows us to buy and sell physical objects according to the market with little to no interference - barring a few sensitive examples. What this boils down to is a discussion regarding personal property and our right to buy and sell it. This forum (graciously) offers us a relatively simple, safe and large venue in which to do so. At the end of the day, it is no different than setting up a milk crate in the street and yelling "ZAG for sale, $300!". Our "milk crate" forum just extends our public forum globally. If somebody comes by and wants to buy it, groovy. If not, ignore the seller. If you can't afford something at it's going market price, save for it or buy something else. Now, being a relatively free community I believe we should be able to ask them why they are selling it above retail price, but we all agreed to abide by the rules of this forum and unfortunately the right to question a price isn't one we have at this time.
If we changed the rules to only allow people to sell at retail cost, we not only negate the factors of shipping, upgrades, repairs and modifications, we obliterate open the "can of worms" regarding sale prices, international fluctuations and bulk purchase discrepancies (co-ops) - factors that would be a nightmare, if not impossible to moderate.
Ban members from classifieds who are just out for profit
This one made my sides hurt. I am dumbfounded when people on this planet, in this century can rationalize major decisions based on factors that cannot be quantified. By this I mean, how can you possibly accuse somebody of "profiteering" when you cannot accurately know why they are selling above retail price? If I had a prototype GG Grant, I certainly wouldn't be selling it for what it was originally worth. If vaping continues, it will inevitably replace smoking, and Mods like the GG Grant will literally represent a point in history when human beings decided to replace a century-old habit that was killing the population on a global scale. The GG Grant was one of the first commercial "Mods" [read, APV, PV, whatever] that set off a chain reaction that made it possible for more people to quit smoking. I know I couldn't have quit the habit using 808, 901 or 510 pieces of garbage. If you're going to tell me I have to sell a relic of what might become one of the most pragmatic movements in the field of human health for anything less than a small fortune, you're out of your damn mind. And if you want to "ban" members of the community that wish to do so, you're a hypocrite.
If you've ever taken advantage of a "sale" or "co-op" or especially bought something that is essentially new for under retail price regardless of context, you're a hypocrite if you don't defend someone's right to sell for above retail price. A sale or deal is just the opposite end of the spectrum when talking about supply and demand - unless we're talking about a sale to drum up business, grand opening/closing etc. Regardless, to partake in one and demonize the other makes you a hypocrite.
Limit # of sales per month in classifieds
This one must be a joke, seriously. The people "over-pricing" their items often have fewer transactions than I do. I've made dozens of deals in Classifieds 2.0, and dozens before. Mind you not all of them are rated, but I usually by or sell a couple times a week. I've never charged more than I've payed - in fact I often trade - so limiting my transactions is just going to enrage me and force me to take my forum activity elsewhere. I don't sell at fair prices personally because I don't believe in it, but as you can see, I vehemently defend other members' rights to do so.
I hate to evoke the whole "if it aint broke..." adage but seriously. The people selling these items have no problem doing so because the demand is out there. I think the "broken" system is the suppliers who cannot keep up with the demand. Seriously. Quit your job, go big and start a company. You can easily make a living selling your products if people are lining up and willing to pay triple the price globally for them. If you want to make things as a hobby go ahead, but please don't whine about people over-charging for your product because it's in such high demand. Make more faster, stop altogether, or sport a toothy grin when you see your creations pulling in more than you thought they were ever worth.
I'll leave you with this. The classified section is a node on an organic network. Trends change. New devices and products are released daily (literally). When something is valuable, the demand will dictate the price. When the fad sizzles out or something replaces it, the prices will fall. When something is a relic, with no chance of being remade, it's going to have some value, and should be given the respect it deserves by allowing it to appreciate in value and be traded accordingly.
The classifieds will stay as they are, at least they'd better.
Thanks for reading, feel free to let me know what you think.
We are all adults here (according to the rules) and as such we should act like adults. To me that means acting rationally, responsibly and realistically. The problem with the whining I read every day regarding the classifieds and "profiteering" is that those doing it are not acting like adults.
Take this poll for example: While I definitely believe in the right to individual opinions and with it the right to voice them, the poll in this thread is asinine. The only reasonable answer is to leave the rules as they are. The other options are ridiculous.
Yes change the Classifieds to not for profit , only allowed to sell for retail cost.
To begin, this is a forum to unite a community - globally. Most of us here are fortunate enough to live in a free market society with an economy that allows us to buy and sell physical objects according to the market with little to no interference - barring a few sensitive examples. What this boils down to is a discussion regarding personal property and our right to buy and sell it. This forum (graciously) offers us a relatively simple, safe and large venue in which to do so. At the end of the day, it is no different than setting up a milk crate in the street and yelling "ZAG for sale, $300!". Our "milk crate" forum just extends our public forum globally. If somebody comes by and wants to buy it, groovy. If not, ignore the seller. If you can't afford something at it's going market price, save for it or buy something else. Now, being a relatively free community I believe we should be able to ask them why they are selling it above retail price, but we all agreed to abide by the rules of this forum and unfortunately the right to question a price isn't one we have at this time.
If we changed the rules to only allow people to sell at retail cost, we not only negate the factors of shipping, upgrades, repairs and modifications, we obliterate open the "can of worms" regarding sale prices, international fluctuations and bulk purchase discrepancies (co-ops) - factors that would be a nightmare, if not impossible to moderate.
Ban members from classifieds who are just out for profit
This one made my sides hurt. I am dumbfounded when people on this planet, in this century can rationalize major decisions based on factors that cannot be quantified. By this I mean, how can you possibly accuse somebody of "profiteering" when you cannot accurately know why they are selling above retail price? If I had a prototype GG Grant, I certainly wouldn't be selling it for what it was originally worth. If vaping continues, it will inevitably replace smoking, and Mods like the GG Grant will literally represent a point in history when human beings decided to replace a century-old habit that was killing the population on a global scale. The GG Grant was one of the first commercial "Mods" [read, APV, PV, whatever] that set off a chain reaction that made it possible for more people to quit smoking. I know I couldn't have quit the habit using 808, 901 or 510 pieces of garbage. If you're going to tell me I have to sell a relic of what might become one of the most pragmatic movements in the field of human health for anything less than a small fortune, you're out of your damn mind. And if you want to "ban" members of the community that wish to do so, you're a hypocrite.
If you've ever taken advantage of a "sale" or "co-op" or especially bought something that is essentially new for under retail price regardless of context, you're a hypocrite if you don't defend someone's right to sell for above retail price. A sale or deal is just the opposite end of the spectrum when talking about supply and demand - unless we're talking about a sale to drum up business, grand opening/closing etc. Regardless, to partake in one and demonize the other makes you a hypocrite.
Limit # of sales per month in classifieds
This one must be a joke, seriously. The people "over-pricing" their items often have fewer transactions than I do. I've made dozens of deals in Classifieds 2.0, and dozens before. Mind you not all of them are rated, but I usually by or sell a couple times a week. I've never charged more than I've payed - in fact I often trade - so limiting my transactions is just going to enrage me and force me to take my forum activity elsewhere. I don't sell at fair prices personally because I don't believe in it, but as you can see, I vehemently defend other members' rights to do so.
I hate to evoke the whole "if it aint broke..." adage but seriously. The people selling these items have no problem doing so because the demand is out there. I think the "broken" system is the suppliers who cannot keep up with the demand. Seriously. Quit your job, go big and start a company. You can easily make a living selling your products if people are lining up and willing to pay triple the price globally for them. If you want to make things as a hobby go ahead, but please don't whine about people over-charging for your product because it's in such high demand. Make more faster, stop altogether, or sport a toothy grin when you see your creations pulling in more than you thought they were ever worth.
I'll leave you with this. The classified section is a node on an organic network. Trends change. New devices and products are released daily (literally). When something is valuable, the demand will dictate the price. When the fad sizzles out or something replaces it, the prices will fall. When something is a relic, with no chance of being remade, it's going to have some value, and should be given the respect it deserves by allowing it to appreciate in value and be traded accordingly.
The classifieds will stay as they are, at least they'd better.
Thanks for reading, feel free to let me know what you think.
Last edited:
In germany that was also a topic.
There are sells over the original price not allowed.
Very good for newbies, but like i said in other topics the transparnecy will get lost. Who knows how much a katana goes for?
Now i know the value people paying but without another one will made profit of my stuff.
Yeah there are scalpers out there but in other way there are people who buys it.
If i sell under new price my item will be sold twice.
Limit the activity or just don't buy. Or declare the new price so everyone knows thats more than the double price.
I will name a higher price also in future, if noone wants it i reduce. If i got offers from special people i know i am too cheap, sorry thats the market. I learned that at the beginning of my vaping career, sold an atty and a few days later the buyer mades big profit on it.
Forbit it and a worse thing will happen, intressting things will be over "Want to trade" available and sold over PM without a price.
Back to the katana topic, now i knows 300Bucks are ok, but without trancarency 500? 600? 750? That would be a bigger rip off.
Anyways for me its no problem, the law in Germany is easy
If i make more than X money a year i am a vendor, if i buy cheap for higher price selling i am a vendor.
If i sell like a vendor i have to own a business and pay taxes for that.
So i limit my activity on a minimum.
There are sells over the original price not allowed.
Very good for newbies, but like i said in other topics the transparnecy will get lost. Who knows how much a katana goes for?
Now i know the value people paying but without another one will made profit of my stuff.
Yeah there are scalpers out there but in other way there are people who buys it.
If i sell under new price my item will be sold twice.
Limit the activity or just don't buy. Or declare the new price so everyone knows thats more than the double price.
I will name a higher price also in future, if noone wants it i reduce. If i got offers from special people i know i am too cheap, sorry thats the market. I learned that at the beginning of my vaping career, sold an atty and a few days later the buyer mades big profit on it.
Forbit it and a worse thing will happen, intressting things will be over "Want to trade" available and sold over PM without a price.
Back to the katana topic, now i knows 300Bucks are ok, but without trancarency 500? 600? 750? That would be a bigger rip off.
Anyways for me its no problem, the law in Germany is easy
If i make more than X money a year i am a vendor, if i buy cheap for higher price selling i am a vendor.
If i sell like a vendor i have to own a business and pay taxes for that.
So i limit my activity on a minimum.
This is why I have no intention of becoming "verified"... If I wanted to get ripped off I'd buy from a mall kiosk.
This has nothing to do with "laws". It's an internet forum and forum rules are the "law".
Yea I had a long rant typed out but it's pretty much been covered. In so far as forum rules being the law:
6. We have expressed on numerous occasions we will not be the "Price Police" but if the price is obviously inflated in an attempt to profit from your sell, the thread will be closed and consequences will follow.
When you buy a hard to get item and then sell it 2 days later unopened for over double the price I think it pretty much thumbs it's nose at that rule. I don't know if it's ever enforced but it is a current rule from the classified forum.
6. We have expressed on numerous occasions we will not be the "Price Police" but if the price is obviously inflated in an attempt to profit from your sell, the thread will be closed and consequences will follow.
When you buy a hard to get item and then sell it 2 days later unopened for over double the price I think it pretty much thumbs it's nose at that rule. I don't know if it's ever enforced but it is a current rule from the classified forum.
Sorry but i buy often things twice, but not for selling. One for myself and one to trade.
A hard getting item is easier to get over a trade than for money.
Thats the way i got my zenesis, katana and other mods.
Easy lesson i learned, buy things that are available to get those you search for.
And theres no intention on profit.
I am new here, and after getting verified went to the classifieds expecting to be able to get some USED gear at reasonable prices. Boy was I wrong! I was able to use them to get a description of all the VV and RBA and GG etc and to see what these items were that people would talk about, but other than that it was pretty useless as far as pricing went.
I have found a few people who are selling items I want for a decent price but you have to be Johnny-on-the-spot to catch those deals from the community-minded people who are just wanting to recoup their investment in items they don't use.
The price gouging was a big disappointment to me. I have a few items that I bought and aren't what I expected, and I plan on using the classifieds to get them to someone who wants to USE them, not buy them from me to sell them at a profit. But now I have to watch the classifieds to make sure I don't sell them to scalpers who are then going to turn around and make a profit. Profiteers on a community bulletin board running a business tax free? Really?
I agree with the auction area / separate area for people who are using this as their business. There really isn't anything wrong with what they are doing per se, but give them their own space for it. Or make them approved merchants!
I have found a few people who are selling items I want for a decent price but you have to be Johnny-on-the-spot to catch those deals from the community-minded people who are just wanting to recoup their investment in items they don't use.
The price gouging was a big disappointment to me. I have a few items that I bought and aren't what I expected, and I plan on using the classifieds to get them to someone who wants to USE them, not buy them from me to sell them at a profit. But now I have to watch the classifieds to make sure I don't sell them to scalpers who are then going to turn around and make a profit. Profiteers on a community bulletin board running a business tax free? Really?
I agree with the auction area / separate area for people who are using this as their business. There really isn't anything wrong with what they are doing per se, but give them their own space for it. Or make them approved merchants!
Who's to distinguish between those who are selling for sheer "profit" or those who sell for higher than retail price to compensate for other factors or take advantage of supply and demand, which is the fundamental concept of the world economy and distribution of our resources?
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