Children in a vape cafe

[jseah]

This has gotten interesting because I see a lot of folks that seem to be basing their opinion on the idea that it is a poor example to set. One argument I heard (on the radio) against vaping was that "it normalizes smoking behavior". I think that is the core of the issue right there. One has to decide - is it bad or is it not. I don't mean less bad than cigarettes, I mean - is it OK or not. I think that is where the divide is actually coming from. If vaping is not a negative behavior then what could make a vape shop an adult environment?

I'm probably not explaining what I mean correctly I hope I got close enough where y'all can kinda get what I'm trying to say.

I know exactly what you mean. The progressive liberal administration in NYC is trying to restrict vaping for these exact same reasons. Their argument is that the marketing (i.e. names like Zombie, Suicide Bunny, etc. that are attractive to the young) and the sweet, appealing flavors of ejuice are attracting kids to vaping and this will eventually lead them to smoking. Of course they also believe that it is the role of government to protect people from themselves because only they know best.

 

[mcol]

Bad or not? Cigarettes we all agree are worse than vaping.
Then where do we go?
Is vaping worse than car exhaust?
Is vaping worse than gas grills?
To just have it as black and white as 'bad or not' to me doesn't make sense.
It's not as good as not putting anything into your lungs at all but air.
So vaping is worse than doing nothing but breathing to me.
After that I have to decide.

 

[supertrunker]

It's an interesting opinion. Can you confirm it somehow? (hint: there are no such reports)

You need to read a little more.
New Research: E-Cigs Safer Alternative to Regular Cigarettes

T

 

[VHRB2014]

Reading posts like this one I am becoming ANTZ...
EDIT: Actually, this post is a good anti-vaping propaganda.

Actually, I got the sense that the point of the post is that vape shop owners and proprietors should be held accountable for the responsibility of operating an adult establishment. Once the discussion rebounds to talking about the parenting involved and the responsibilities thereof, we are off into the weeds.

The operators of such establishments are the only ones responsible for this activity. They should not be giving vaping any bad press, for whatever reason they base THIS decision on. I fear that some of them are just too dense to realize that they are shooting themselves in the foot by allowing this to occur.

 

[Rocketpunk]

I like this post because it made me think about how I would act if I did, in fact, have children, and if I was a former smoker turned vaper....

After long, hard thought, I came the conclusion that I do think I'd vape in front of my children, but not before a certain age. Probably two years old. It's hard for me to project because the idea seems so foreign, but if I projected myself into the place of a guy my age with toddlers who is trying to quit smoking and has switched to e-cigs, I wouldn't blame him if he used his vape inside while around his own children.

The key to that is "his own" children. If they were my kids, and I know this is a weird, backwards statement, but I feel relatively safe in knowing what is in exhaled vapor -- if they were my kids, I'd vape in the same room with them. Now, anybody else's kids, no. If I felt comfortable enough with the parents, whether friends or family, and they allowed it, I'd vape. But in any other situation, no, I wouldn't vape around kids.

Sorry for the weird post. Hope it makes sense.

Presumably parents that smoke in front of their children at home ought to have their children forcibly removed? The dangers of second-hand smoke are so dire are they?

But as vapers, we are happy to find reports that show vaping is between 100 and 1000 times safer for ourselves as smoking, so it's pretty reasonable to assume that those figures also apply to bystanders, no?

Have you ever noticed that buggies children are pushed in are at vehicle exhaust-pipe level?

Vaping is not smoking. The dangers are not the same and parents are free to raise their children as they see fit.

T

 

[mcol]

I know exactly what you mean. The progressive liberal administration in NYC is trying to restrict vaping for these exact same reasons. Their argument is that the marketing (i.e. names like Zombie, Suicide Bunny, etc. that are attractive to the young) and the sweet, appealing flavors of ejuice are attracting kids to vaping and this will eventually lead them to smoking. Of course they also believe that it is the role of government to protect people from themselves because only they know best.

As much as I'd like to move back west, there are so many times I'm so thankful
to live in Missouri where for the most part they stay out of our business on
most things.

 

[juggler86]

You realize that several vegetables contain nicotine.
This is a great read on nicotine The Great Nicotine Myth

I seriously doubt the vapor causes the kiddies any harm, public perception is another matter.

Are you kidding, you doubt a small child could get nic sick in a fogged up room. Rip Trippers has a video on public vaping were he talks about getting a little nic sic while playing cards with buddies who were vaping 9-12mg. If somebody who blows clouds of 2-4Mg can get woozy imagine what it could do to a child.

I think its irresponsible of the parents and the owner of the shop to allow it. My local B&M doesnt allow anybody under 18 in no matter what, which is the smart responsible thing to do.

 

[Woofer]

When I walk into a vape store and it is filled with a haze that makes it difficult to see to the other end of the store, I don't want to be in there, let alone have a child in there.

I hope we all agree a hospital or your own home would be a much better place to have a child.

 

[juggler86]

1) ANYBODY I don't know starts foto/filming my kids is going to feel pain.
2) It is not smoke
3) We don't deserve any of it.

So youre 1 of the people who only likes freedoms, that suit you. Anybody has the freedom to take a picture of anything/anybody they want in public. Why would you hurt somebody for expressing their freedom, just because you dont like it.

 

[Alien Traveler]

You need to read a little more.
New Research: E-Cigs Safer Alternative to Regular Cigarettes

T

Thanks for advise (about reading), but your link is pretty old. It is not very much pro-vaping review, it states also that e-cigs are about as effective as patches (which are not effective, as we know) and that number of children who have tried vaping have doubled.

But lets go to original research (unfortunately, only abstract, they ask money for a full paper):

Levels of selected carcinogens and toxicants in vapour from electronic cigarettes -- Goniewicz et al. -- Tobacco Control

So, it says that level of "selected tobacco-specific toxicants" for e-cigs is 9–450 lower than for cigarettes. You see, it starts with 9, not 100. And, more important, only selected tobacco-specific toxicants were studied, but of course as vapers we know that juice is not tobacco. We should be interested more if it has some specificjuice-specific toxicants (hopefully no). So, your numerical statement is baseless. Yes, e-cigs are safer, but how much safer we still do not know.

 

[Rossum]

Way too many people in this world desire to control how others live their lives, including how they raise their children.

To the OP: Given your avatar, I'll ask, at what age do you figure you'll start taking your daughter to the range? Unless you wait until she's no longer a minor, doing so will enrage a certain number of namby-pambys. They'll claim you shouldn't do that (and the range shouldn't allow it) because it's dangerous due to the powder smoke, the lead, and of course the potential physical hazards. They'll also object because it "normalizes" the use of deadly weapons in your impressionable child's mind. My guess is you'd (rightfully) tell such people: "Mind your own business".

 

[Woofer]

Please, stop this nonsense. There are negligible amount of nicotine in vegetables compared to tobacco. And, most important, it is behavior thing that children will copy.

No.
We are talking about vapor not tobacco, there are negligible amounts of nic in vapor too and negligible risk from nicotine
Of course they will SO for anyone that concerned with nicotine risk for their children I suggest they do not partake at all.
You raise your children, not me, not the vape shop owner and not the damn government.

 

[supertrunker]

Thanks for advise (about reading), but your link is pretty old. It is not very much pro-vaping review, it states also that e-cigs are about as effective as patches (which are not effective, as we know) and that number of children who have tried vaping have doubled.

But lets go to original research (unfortunately, only abstract, they ask money for a full paper):

Levels of selected carcinogens and toxicants in vapour from electronic cigarettes -- Goniewicz et al. -- Tobacco Control

So, it says that level of "selected tobacco-specific toxicants" for e-cigs is 9–450 lower than for cigarettes. You see, it starts with 9, not 100. And, more important, only selected tobacco-specific toxicants were studied, but of course as vapers we know that juice is not tobacco. We should be interested more if it has some specificjuice-specific toxicants (hopefully no). So, your numerical statement is baseless. Yes, e-cigs are safer, but how much safer we still do not know.

Very good Alien! Now - let's suppose i have in fact vaped that something which is 9 times safer than a cigarette...how much safer is what i exhale to a bystander, which is after all what this is all about?

We cannot know for sure you say, but 9 times safer? 90 times?
Err, we can know for sure - we can measure it!
E-Cigarette Secondhand Smoke Study Finds Nicotine, But Few Toxins

T

 

[AndriaD]

So youre 1 of the people who only likes freedoms, that suit you. Anybody has the freedom to take a picture of anything/anybody they want in public. Why would you hurt somebody for expressing their freedom, just because you dont like it.

You can take a picture, sure... but images of minors cannot be published or broadcast without written consent of their legal guardian.

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

Way too many people in this world desire to control how others live their lives, including how they raise their children.

To the OP: Given your avatar, I'll ask, at what age do you figure you'll start taking your daughter to the range? Unless you wait until she's no longer a minor, doing so will enrage a certain number of namby-pambys. They'll claim you shouldn't do that (and the range shouldn't allow it) because it's dangerous due to the powder smoke, the lead, and of course the potential physical hazards. They'll also object because it "normalizes" the use of deadly weapons in your impressionable child's mind. My guess is you'd (rightfully) tell such people: "Mind your own business".

I personally think all females shouild be given guns and training to use them at the onset of puberty.

Andria

 

[mcol]

You can take a picture, sure... but images of minors cannot be published or broadcast without written consent of their legal guardian.

Andria

The way around this is to simply blur the heads. It's done all the time in media.

 

[supertrunker]

Oh, and one more -

the amount of nicotine inhaled by a bystander after 8 straight hours of exposure to a full room of vapers in a bar is the equivalent of 0.008 tobacco cigarettes. “In order to inhale the equivalent amount of nicotine that would be inhaled by actively smoking one cigarette, a bystander would have to spend 12 days in a bar filled with e-cigarette vapor, at continuous exposure levels.

New Studies Suggest E-Cigarette Vapor Is Considerably Safer than Tobacco Smoke | E-Cigarette Reviews and Rankings

Safer than alpine air? No - but fairly safe, even for children, in the scheme of things.

T

 

[jseah]

I personally think all females shouild be given guns and training to use them at the onset of puberty.

Andria

That's exactly what the world needs........armed women with PMS.

 

[supertrunker]

I personally think all females shouild be given guns and training to use them at the onset of puberty.

Andria

The tv remote seems to pacify them too.

T

 

[eyerhere]

you should pick up some coupons to chuckie cheese or some other kids favorite spot. Next time they are there go give the coupon to the kid. may be fun to watch the please please please that follows. You may get lucky and witness an all out tantrum.