Making a competing product is all well and good; making an exact replica, not so much, and if that replica actually has the original maker's name and logo on it, the it's a bloody counterfeit, not a legitimate competing product.
Chinese clones Rant / Discussion
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Not sure even you understood what you typed.
You do know most of what Chinese manufacturers Clone or as you prefer - Counterfeit - in the vaping industry is European and Asian market goods, right?
You do realize an exclusive dealer can buy 5 Originals and sell them in a matter of hours for a whopping 10% profit, then wait for months to hopefully get another order.
While the majority of dealers purchase low cost replica goods(clones) and move out 200-1000 in a few weeks at 50% profit.
Seems to me the mainstream dealers are doing a pretty decent job of rolling in American cash in the American market.
Show me a Patent violation and I'll agree on Counterfeit
Show me a low cost duplicate, sold as a Copy and I'll say Replica. No one attempted to pass of any China Clone to me as an original.
You keep saying money - Again, Money is protected by Law and with serious consequences for counterfeiting.
As to getting personal - Well, I'll say this once and let it go.
I work for a living. 12hr days doing manual labor. I earn my pennies and I alone have the right to decide what I can and cannot affort to buy with them.
I purchase American grown Food.
I Drive an American Made Truck
I purchased my Wife an American made Van
All my tools Are Snap-on and Craftsman
My furniture comes from American Factories
My Kitchen was remodeled using Local Cabinet makers and local labor(All American)
You really think your going to get me to buy that China is going to Break the American Bank over a Few hundred in vaping Gear, copied from an Greek?
Who is fooling Who? Our own government will likely bankrupt this country long before China gets the chance.
Counterfeiting has nothing to do with patents.
Counterfeiting is putting someone else's name and logo on a product that looks just like the original but isn't.
Not sure even you understood what you typed.
You do know most of what Chinese manufacturers Clone or as you prefer - Counterfeit - in the Vaping industry is European and Asian market goods, right?
You do realize an exclusive dealer can buy 5 Originals and sell them in a matter of hours for a whopping 10% profit, then wait for months to hopefully get another order.
While the majority of dealers purchase low cost replica goods(clones) and move out 200-1000 in a few weeks at 50% profit.
Seems to me the mainstream dealers are doing a pretty decent job of rolling in American cash in the American market.
Show me a Patent violation and I'll agree on Counterfeit
Show me a low cost duplicate, sold as a Copy and I'll say Replica. No one attempted to pass of any China Clone to me as an original.
You keep saying money - Again, Money is protected by Law and with serious consequences for counterfeiting.
As to getting personal - Well, I'll say this once and let it go.
I work for a living. 12hr days doing manual labor. I earn my pennies and I alone have the right to decide what I can and cannot affort to buy with them.
I purchase American grown Food.
I Drive an American Made Truck
I purchased my Wife an American made Van
All my tools Are Snap-on and Craftsman
My furniture comes from American Factories
My Kitchen was remodeled using Local Cabinet makers and local labor(All American)
You really think your going to get me to buy that China is going to Break the American Bank over a Few hundred in Vaping Gear, copied from an Greek?
Who is fooling Who? Our own government will likely bankrupt this country long before China gets the chance.
I think what is being misconstrued, is people are lumping counterfeits to all Chinese products.
For the sake of the argument lets pretend China does not exist, and talk about counterfeit products only.
In America we try to deter monopolization. How do we deter monopolies? By encouraging competition right?
Toilet paper is a single product. But there are many competing brands. Lets use Charmin and Scott for example. They are literally selling the same product, but why is it legal? Because of Product differentiation..
Now lets pretend Scott toilet papers calls their toilet papers Charmin now too, and uses the exact same branding, name, and identity yet they sell it for $2 less. What do we have now? Lets also pretend that patents, and copyrights don't exist. Is this still ethically and morally acceptable?
These counterfeit products are being bought for a reason, and the main reason is because they are identical to the product people want, but for a much cheaper price. Would people pay $300 for a fake Rolex if it could not pass off for a real Rolex? Would people pay $100 for a counterfeited Louis Vuitton bag if it looked like a wal-mart bag?
There is no reason to judge people who buy counterfeits, but why is it so hard for people to understand the negative ethical values of counterfeited products from brands that never gave permission to use their name and branding?
It's still very, very different from counterfeiting money.
What would the gov do if they found you printing a bunch of fake $100's? What would they do if they found you selling a bunch of fake NIKE t-shirts? It's a very different thing, so it gets treated very differently.
Okay, lets try this a bit different.
I like to see people react. This seems to be a hot topic, even though it is a tiny, teeny tiny piece in the overall financial picture in this country.
It is almost silly the way people respond considering:
1) I never show my mods around here. I could really care less what they look like or what anyone else thinks of them.
2) I have no American made Mods or any Clones/replicas/Counterfeits of American Mods.
3) My main carry out of home Mod is my eVic - a good copy of Nada, nothing, no-one else Mod. - Well, it is a battery tube.
Can't really get me worked up about any of it. In the Face of growing Terrorism, Economic Downturn, Rising cost of living and corporations selling the US out for years, China is a bit down the list for me.
We can Blame China for our lot in life, but it would simply be the same old same old. I'm old enough to have seen things move from country to country as the US looses more and more to outsourcing. But it is Americans that are doing the outsourcing.
We, as a country, have a lot of growing up to do. No outside country has taken anything from us which we did not freely hand over.
I was there when plants closed and went to Mexico.
I was there when Production went to Japan
Taiwan didn't last long - poor workmanship - until the PC became so popular and cheap.
Now China is taking a turn.
While we are all sitting around complaining about Off shore products and China Counterfeits the Fat Cats are laughing all the way to the bank.
Now, my only nit pic is the diversity of the English language - AKA American flexibility of meaning. If you don't like the definition of a word, modify the definition to fit your meaning. Something we do regularly and that is reflected in new releases of modern day dictionaries.
Merriam-Webster:
Counterfeit -
Point of contention - Above posted Tissue example:
Patents
Trademarks
Copy Rights
These are all in place as protections for things a company considers Proprietary. Even intellectual Property has been copyrighted and is therefor protected under law.
Anyone wishing such protection has that right on US soil.
Even foreign Mod makers can file for Brand protection under US law. This alone would heavily curtail the influx of copycat releases.
Seems to me the people everyone is trying to protect, or think are being ripped off, should be the ones making an attempt to get things under control. Oddly, I'm not hearing much of anything on that front.
Now I'm curious, who really has the rights to
Cotton Candy
The Beach Ball
Flip Flops
I like to see people react. This seems to be a hot topic, even though it is a tiny, teeny tiny piece in the overall financial picture in this country.
It is almost silly the way people respond considering:
1) I never show my mods around here. I could really care less what they look like or what anyone else thinks of them.
2) I have no American made Mods or any Clones/replicas/Counterfeits of American Mods.
3) My main carry out of home Mod is my eVic - a good copy of Nada, nothing, no-one else Mod. - Well, it is a battery tube.
Can't really get me worked up about any of it. In the Face of growing Terrorism, Economic Downturn, Rising cost of living and corporations selling the US out for years, China is a bit down the list for me.
We can Blame China for our lot in life, but it would simply be the same old same old. I'm old enough to have seen things move from country to country as the US looses more and more to outsourcing. But it is Americans that are doing the outsourcing.
We, as a country, have a lot of growing up to do. No outside country has taken anything from us which we did not freely hand over.
I was there when plants closed and went to Mexico.
I was there when Production went to Japan
Taiwan didn't last long - poor workmanship - until the PC became so popular and cheap.
Now China is taking a turn.
While we are all sitting around complaining about Off shore products and China Counterfeits the Fat Cats are laughing all the way to the bank.
Now, my only nit pic is the diversity of the English language - AKA American flexibility of meaning. If you don't like the definition of a word, modify the definition to fit your meaning. Something we do regularly and that is reflected in new releases of modern day dictionaries.
Merriam-Webster:
Counterfeit -
Point of contention - Above posted Tissue example:
Patents
Trademarks
Copy Rights
These are all in place as protections for things a company considers Proprietary. Even intellectual Property has been copyrighted and is therefor protected under law.
Anyone wishing such protection has that right on US soil.
Even foreign Mod makers can file for Brand protection under US law. This alone would heavily curtail the influx of copycat releases.
Seems to me the people everyone is trying to protect, or think are being ripped off, should be the ones making an attempt to get things under control. Oddly, I'm not hearing much of anything on that front.
Now I'm curious, who really has the rights to
Cotton Candy
The Beach Ball
Flip Flops
If you don't agree with clones, by all means, don't buy them. Make your stand!
If someone else other than you chooses to buy a clone, let them be! It's their money. You have ZERO right to tell ANYONE that what they purchased is "wrong".
Since when did it become OK for people to talk down to other people for what they use?
"Uh, that's not me! I don't do that!"
If that's truly you, you'd just ignore and/or move along without commenting,
If someone else other than you chooses to buy a clone, let them be! It's their money. You have ZERO right to tell ANYONE that what they purchased is "wrong".
Since when did it become OK for people to talk down to other people for what they use?
"Uh, that's not me! I don't do that!"
If that's truly you, you'd just ignore and/or move along without commenting,
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It's all laughable. We all buy so called "generic" products at Wall Mart every day. Especially drugs! Same packaging, similar colors on the boxes, but a lot cheaper than the name brand. Target, Wallmart, Wallgreens, Sam's Club, Costco, all have products that are the exact same, just rebranded. What do we all (for the most part) buy? THE BEST VALUE!! Don't be fooled, every company out there is willing to copy someone else an just stamp their BRAND on the product. What makes China different? Well they aren't afraid of just making an exact copy without deceiving you. Branding products is the oldest ball and shell game out there. None of them actually worry about copyrights or patents any more. They all have teams of lawyers that can manipulate the way any law reads. JMHO
My general philosophy is "live and let live", but I take sides when something negatively affects someone else, such as teaching creationism in school. Obviously my opinion against "replicas" is not as strong as against creationism, but understand that while this stuff doesn't really affect us in any way (if you don't like it, don't buy it), but how about the mod makers? If we don't stand up for them, who will? It's undeniable that these replicas have a negative impact on the sales of originals, and thus the maker of the originals. If you think otherwise, you're deluding yourself. I don't think anyone is calling someone who buys replicas a bad person for doing so, but I (and many others) believes the popularity of buying replicas does bad things.
We'll all be here when the aliens come back... I'm not worrying about anything!
But... you just changed the goal posts. I said, "I also don't see the difference between counterfeiting product and counterfeiting money."
Plenty of countries have own versions of money, that compete on the world market. So, no problem there, right?
But if I could get $100 US bills for $2 a piece, as sold to me by China, who has absolutely no issue replicating US bills, why should it be a problem for China to do that? I acknowledge it would be a huge issue for me to accept that / seek purchases of that, but how is that a problem for China to make that? What is it they are doing that is inherently wrong?
Note: All questions in preceding paragraph are rhetorical. I fully realize it is a problem, just as I fully realize that counterfeiting products is a problem. But am hoping those who want to argue for counterfeiting goods as 'eh, not so bad' can make their points within context of 'you are blatantly ripping off the revenue stream of the person(s) who have legitimate stake in the original.'
My general philosophy is "live and let live", but I take sides when something negatively affects someone else, such as teaching creationism in school. Obviously my opinion against "replicas" is not as strong as against creationism, but understand that while this stuff doesn't really affect us in any way (if you don't like it, don't buy it), but how about the mod makers? If we don't stand up for them, who will? It's undeniable that these replicas have a negative impact on the sales of originals, and thus the maker of the originals. If you think otherwise, you're deluding yourself. I don't think anyone is calling someone who buys replicas a bad person for doing so, but I (and many others) believes the popularity of buying replicas does bad things.
We'll all be here when the aliens come back... I'm not worrying about anything!
My, how the world has changed. People used to complain about evolution being taught in schools, now their complaining about creationism being taught in schools?? Why can't they both be taught so that free minds can decide for them selves? I have to stop at this point.....
Never mind. Even I questioned what I wrote in light of forum policy. I think the point is worth making, but not at cost of what is a blatant argument for counterfeiting, which is what I see post #187 doing, within context of this discussion.
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Sorry, but I do have the right to voice my opinion when people use their money to support businesses that engage in the unethical and illegal practice of counterfeiting others' products.
I am not anti-China. I have no problem buying Chinese-mode products provided they are not blatant rip-offs of somebody else's product. But when I see a Chinese clone with an American or European brand-name and logo on it, that really gets under my skin.
Why? Probably because I've been dealing with the same issue in a non-vaping related business for 9 years now.
Did you all know there is a Clone of the Nemesis?
Not a Counterfeit. Not even a Replica(lol)
Nope - Same tube layout, Same switch style, Same Top cap with air control and 510 connection.
NO Serial #
No Death Angel
Has Chinese, or other Asian writing that translates as - CLONE
Not a Counterfeit. Not even a Replica(lol)
Nope - Same tube layout, Same switch style, Same Top cap with air control and 510 connection.
NO Serial #
No Death Angel
Has Chinese, or other Asian writing that translates as - CLONE
OK, we know that there are Chinese companies that have some sense of ethics.Did you all know there is a Clone of the Nemesis?
Not a Counterfeit. Not even a Replica(lol)
Nope - Same tube layout, Same switch style, Same Top cap with air control and 510 connection.
NO Serial #
No Death Angel
Has Chinese, or other Asian writing that translates as - CLONE
But there are also plenty that don't:
You don't need to register a trademark for it to exist, but it is helpful to have it registered if you want to sue for damages in case of infringement.
It should also be obvious that it's just plain wrong to put somebody else's name and logo on a cheap copy, even if it's not practical for them to sue you.
maybe I misread your post but it not:
little thing called separation of church and state
I wonder how many people that hate products made in China realize that is where their iPhone was made. Besides Provari are there any other US made PV's? Are there any US made atomizers, clearomizers, or cartomizers?
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