Chinese clones Rant / Discussion

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Zealous

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Why wouldn't smoktech be considered original?

Anyway, For American, I think Super T, Reo, Provape, & Elements are the ones I can think of. I think Woodmods is also USA but I could be remembering that wrong. I could swear that the Damascus mod is USA made (and awesome looking btw) but as I said I could be remembering that incorrectly. Anyway, those are the ones I can think of.
 

crxess

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People will twist and turn and bring up the most off the wall BS to support an argument they know good and well is not going to end. Not in either sides favor.

At least put some thought into what your going to post.

Meanwhile when are all these purist going to add the B&M's and Online Business owners to their Hate list.
They are the pipeline that demands an affordable sell-able product they can make a good profit on - in volume.
Venders make request and place orders - China fills them.
 

CloudZ

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Why wouldn't smoktech be considered original?

Anyway, For American, I think Super T, Reo, Provape, & Elements are the ones I can think of. I think Woodmods is also USA but I could be remembering that wrong. I could swear that the Damascus mod is USA made (and awesome looking btw) but as I said I could be remembering that incorrectly. Anyway, those are the ones I can think of.
I just didn't know whether or not Smoktech copied some high-end designs for the Magneto and Natural. That's cool if they are originals.

Provape doesn't make a mech, but I didn't know about Element. Just checked out the Tree of Life, looks pretty nice.
 

Mostwasted

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People will twist and turn and bring up the most off the wall BS to support an argument they know good and well is not going to end. Not in either sides favor.


Do explain what you what you are talking about. I don't see no one twisting anything, I see a debate and discussions going on. I also see lots of people who don't get the main point of this post and are quick to jump to conclusions. One person out of everyone that has commented got the point.
 

Zealous

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I just didn't know whether or not Smoktech copied some high-end designs for the Magneto and Natural. That's cool if they are originals.

Provape doesn't make a mech, but I didn't know about Element. Just checked out the Tree of Life, looks pretty nice.


Ah yes I guess you're right about Provape. I was thinking of the Provape 1 but that's not technically a mech I guess since it has wiring & such.

The Magneto & Natural are original mods to my understanding. I don't have any of Smoktech's mods but I like that they price things reasonably yet build decent quality mods.

And I really like the tree of life mod. Very pretty.
 
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Jazzman

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Don't forget The Big Nasty! American designed and made, by Tatroe (really nice quality machining), AND a very reasonable price at $139 full list price with a one year warranty. This is a mod that is a game changer to me. If this is a new direction quality mechs are going I won't need China to satisfy my needs any longer. I am glad to see this new trend and hope other manufacturers take note that a truly quality mech can be made in the US, with a decent warranty, and compete quite nicely with China clones. Well done Cigtech and Tatroe. This is my next mech.

BTW, I have no problem with Chinese clones, but given good quality, good value, AND a 1 year warranty (not the Chinese 30/30 warranty. 30 seconds or 30ft, whichever comes first) I will buy US made. I firmly believe this kind of market adjustment needed to happen and needs to continue. There will still always be a market for very high end/priced mechs for the collectors and the boutique market, but mainstream value conscious consumers need an alternative like this.

Not a rant, just an opinion.
 

HawaiiVPR

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Ah yes I guess you're right about Provape. I was thinking of the Provape 1 but that's not technically a mech I guess since it has wiring & such.

The Magneto & Natural are original mods to my understanding. I don't have any of Smoktech's mods but I like that they price things reasonably yet build decent quality mods.

And I really like the tree of life mod. Very pretty.

I hear that the Magento "borrowed" a design aspect off the Nzonic, but I'm not 100% sure. In any event, I bought the magneto as an entry mech since I thought it was a really good deal for $40. Clone or not, its actually a very well built mod when compared to others in the same price range, and some that are priced higher as well.
 

TheJakeBailey

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Do explain what you what you are talking about. I don't see no one twisting anything, I see a debate and discussions going on. I also see lots of people who don't get the main point of this post and are quick to jump to conclusions. One person out of everyone that has commented got the point.

So enlighten everyone else that didn't get the point. Quite a few comments here, so I'm sure we would like to know what we overlooked.

furthermore, in the original post you advised being "100% against made in china, which doesn't really align with this previous post."

Went from a cheap disposable fantasia hookah pen, to a cheap 14.99 ego kit, to the Halo triton starter kit and Now on to itaste mvp 2.0 with a nimbus rebuildable drip tip atomizer. Both shall be here by Wednesday.:D

So maybe you are right, and we all DID miss the point???
 
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Jman8

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People will twist and turn and bring up the most off the wall BS to support an argument they know good and well is not going to end. Not in either sides favor.

At least put some thought into what your going to post.

Meanwhile when are all these purist going to add the B&M's and Online Business owners to their Hate list.
They are the pipeline that demands an affordable sell-able product they can make a good profit on - in volume.
Venders make request and place orders - China fills them.

All I know is when I hear this put forth as a defense, it makes me even more wish that whatever business you and yours are into / own, I kinda really really hope there's a counterfeiter out there undercutting your profits, and selling same product / services for far less than what you and yours decide is fair price / good value.

And by "you" and "yours" - I explicitly mean anyone that argues/strongly believes counterfeiting is 'just good business for the consumer.'

I also don't see the difference between counterfeiting product and counterfeiting money. Especially by another country. In own country, counterfeiting money would be between incredibly dumb and incredibly gutsy. When you get caught, chances are you will be out of that business for life. But when another country does it, what is the original country to do?

Take money completely out of the picture (if that's possible) and the counterfeit money thing no longer matters. With counterfeit products, it would matter far less, if at all. As long as money and/or earning a living is the standard for having or accumulating wealth, then counterfeiting is theft. Again, from the myopic consumer perspective, it is a good thing. And is a little hard to argue otherwise, especially if said consumer does twist and turn around arguments about the nature of economy. Yet, when said consumer goes into 'legitimate business' for themselves and finds another who is blatantly ripping off their business and obtaining revenue, stealing from their revenue stream, I'm thinking it is entirely reasonable that this same person no longer looks at the issue as a perfectly good thing for everyone, including the consumer(s).

As I understand point of this thread from OP's perspective, it is that China is blatantly ripping off America's revenue stream of American made products, by counterfeiting products that clearly some consumers demand. In my observation, China isn't the only country around doing this, and is plausible the US engages in this as well. China just appears to be the 'best' at it, and seemingly has no desire to agree to any international desire to overcome the perceived problems that come from counterfeiting. In fact, without counterfeiting alive and well in China, it is possible China remains a third world country, perhaps indefinitely.
 

Baldr

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I also don't see the difference between counterfeiting product and counterfeiting money.

That's incredibly sad.

As I understand point of this thread from OP's perspective, it is that China is blatantly ripping off America's revenue stream of American made products, by counterfeiting products that clearly some consumers demand.

I believe that later in the thread he clarified, and basically said that he doesn't like Chinese products, period. That's a much more valid stance, IMO. Most of the clone products are clones of other Chinese products. They aren't cloning the Provari or the Reo, but there are certainly clones of Joyetech and Kanger products.

I don't have any problem with someone making a cheaper version. I see that as competition. However, if they market them under the same name, that's a very different issue, and I'm strongly opposed. If you're selling a unit which you claim is "Just like a Provari, just as well built, with the exact same functionality", that's one thing. If you're selling that same clone and claiming "This is a Provari" then that's a very different thing. (As far as I know, there are no Provari clones out there. There are cheap competitors, like the lavatube and such, but no clones.)
 
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Caridwen

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People seem to be using the terms counterfeit and clone interchangeably - maybe why we see so many posted/closed in the classifieds lately -

As far as classifieds go-

Counterfeit - Counterfeits will basically be an exact replica of the original and not so much tied to the shape as it is more the markings. The shape would come into play if there are unique characteristics of the device. This can include grooves, cutouts, coloring, or trademarks in specific locations.

Acceptable
Clone - Can be similar in size, shape, and even design but will not contain the same markings or colors. As long as the device can be distinguished as different from the original, not just by the word clone, it will be considered a clone. Just by declaring a device a clone in it's title or description will not necessarily make it a clone. The clone device should be absent of all characteristics contained in the original, grooves, cutouts, coloring, or trademarks.
 

Jman8

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I also don't see the difference between counterfeiting product and counterfeiting money.

That's incredibly sad.

Sad, why?

I don't have any problem with someone making a cheaper version. I see that as competition. However, if they market them under the same name, that's a very different issue, and I'm strongly opposed. If you're selling a unit which you claim is "Just like a Provari, just as well built, with the exact same functionality", that's one thing. If you're selling that same clone and claiming "This is a Provari" then that's a very different thing. (As far as I know, there are no Provari clones out there. There are cheap competitors, like the lavatube and such, but no clones.)

IMO, this post and #174 are drawing some very fine lines that would make it easy for a counterfeiter to get around. I've seen clone threads here, and people have said that when they put original next to clone, they couldn't tell the difference. That, to me, is counterfeiting. If I came up with the original and called it "widgets" and you came up with the counterfeit, and called it "bananas," okay that would be a difference. And if instead of using gold plating for the symbol, you used nickel plating, okay, that would be another difference. If you then advertise it as "built just like a Widget with the same quality," I'd be thinking you counterfeited the Widget.

There's umpteen variations of that same paragraph I just wrote that would be varying degrees of counterfeiting in my book. Making a replica and simply stripping off the symbol is still counterfeiting.

Now if I made a cigalike and tried to advertise it as "built with the quality of Provari," then I could go along with what you are getting at. But building what looks a lot like a replica of a product and making very trivial changes strikes me as gaming the system toward counterfeiting.
 

Jimi D.

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Czeresnie_10.jpg.thumb_150x96.jpg20131227_164543.jpg I'm in the mood for Cherry Cola !
 

Brusky

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With the us economy the way It is I refuse to waste my money on a 200 dollar metal tube when I can get a good working version for 30 bucks from china. I understand there is research and development involved in any new mod but If they would sell them at a reasonable price afterwards they would sell more.

I think you are misunderstanding some major points. The 200 dollar "metal tubes", are designated for specific demographics, IE: hobbyists and such. You are not being forced to buy it, nor is it your only option.

If you think they are selling it at an unreasonable price, then obviously it is not for you. Just because a counterfeit is cheaper does not dictate that the original is overpriced.. Counterfeits are cheaper because they are just that, a counterfeit..
 
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