Clone Versus Authentic Discussion

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Pinggolfer

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In all the other industries, the creators of something use trademarks and patents, of they didn't, the copying would be just as prolific
Have you checked patent pending? Just as good as having a patent. In any event how does anyone file suit against a company with no known address in China of all places.

The best way to solve the problem is through credit card companies, eBay, and PayPal.
 

doofy666

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I have an authentic Kayfun V4, and also a Tobeco clone.

The authentic is an excellent trouble free vape.

The Tobeco has a machining error that is so bad that the juice control does not work. I've tried a fix that didn't work, and have just ordered a new part for it in the hope that fixes it. The Tobeco also wicks poorer than the auth. I can chuck any coil in the auth and wick it any old how. The Tobeco needs a 3mm coil and very careful wicking or its dry hit time.

It is absurd to state that all clones function like an auth. All it's possible to state is that some/most function like an auth.

Anyone who has read the Kayfun V4 clone thread knows that buying a K4 clone is a lottery. Sure, it's a lottery with a high chance of winning, but it's still a lottery.
Faults reported include blocked juice channels, two different types of machining error, clunky threads, and oring problems. And they are often soaked in machine oil that can be stubborn to shift.
Anyone who believes that modern clones are perfect only needs to read the reports of problems in the K4 clones thread.

I'd like another K4 but I wouldn't buy a clone and can't justify buying another auth.
 

doofy666

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And another thing :)

I've been following a used auth on ebay for a few days, wondering whether to buy it. It looks perfect, the spares kit is auth, the seller has a receipt. But I don't trust that the seller has not bought an auth and a clone and has swapped them out to sell. When even here, there is a report of a clone being sold as an auth - and I've seen one on Amazon also - then to my mind there is no real used market in auths. For me, branded clones have killed the used market in auths. Which is a shame. Buying a used auth is as much of a lottery as buying a clone.
 

Pinggolfer

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You didn't believe I owned a Provari. You wouldn't believe anything I said anyway. Stop talking to me, we don't and never will get along. You like to make problems here with many members.

You don't even have a K4.

Wrong again ricks. I did believe you owned a Provari. Correct I don't own a V4. I do own 2 authentic Kayfun's. After looking at the V4 parts list and realizing it has more parts than my car I decided not to purchase it. I questioned you on where and when you tested the authentic.
 

ricks

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Wrong again ricks. I did believe you owned a Provari. Correct I don't own a V4. I do own 2 authentic Kayfun's. After looking at the V4 parts list and realizing it has more parts than my car I decided not to purchase it. I questioned you on where and when you tested the authentic.

I did.....
 

doofy666

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Wrong again ricks. I did believe you owned a Provari. Correct I don't own a V4. I do own 2 authentic Kayfun's. After looking at the V4 parts list and realizing it has more parts than my car I decided not to purchase it. I questioned you on where and when you tested the authentic.

Probably a pedal car if it has less than 41 parts... I've just taken my K4 up to 43 parts.
 

ErnieKim

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Does anyone else see similarities between the atty/vape gear front and mechanical/high end watches?

I say "similar" - not the same of course, but SvoeMesto and other high end atty makers are like the Rolex/Omegas of the vape world in my opinion. And I love em for it.

Vape gear is becoming highly innovative and I consider each design to be a work of art like a fine watch. So if nothing else, we need some folks buying authentics to keep the innovation going - right?

I do think it's comparable at least, with all the high end watch knock offs out there as well, mostly out of China.

Notice I'm not being confrontational - just noticing the comparison is all. Just like in watches, there will likely be a market for both authentics and clones. I just want the SvoeMesto's and Erlkonigin's and others of the world to keep making money and making new ideas is all. (And I realize some clone companies have sometimes driven innovation as well).

*I'm also guilty of owning both clones and authentics btw. Just making an observation.


-Sent via Tapatalk

No comparison at all. A watch is an intricate precision item. A tank is a simple, static item, it is about as low technology as you can get.
Additionally, clones are simply generic, they are not counterfeit. People here need to get their terminology straight.
 

ErnieKim

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There is something about a quality made product which appeals to me, as manufacturing is my profession. I am quite knowledgeable in precision craftsmanship and what it takes to achieve. Most people probably have the same reaction I did when I received my first ProVari...
I understand some can't see the difference between high quality and price point manufacturing, however, but supporting an industry which steals the work and name of others is no excuse...

They are generics. Get your facts straight.
 

ErnieKim

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Have you checked patent pending? Just as good as having a patent. In any event how does anyone file suit against a company with no known address in China of all places.

The best way to solve the problem is through credit card companies, eBay, and PayPal.

Most of these so called authentics couldn't get a patent if they tried because they stole the ideas from the Chinese to begin with.
 

Sirius

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Disclaimer: This is not in defense of Ping, nor an attack on you.
This is not a "huzzah" for authentics, nor an attack on clones.
So Bird...what if, just WHAT IF, his moral obligation drives him to include material quality in his list of safety points? After all, a new vaper should be taught that there is a vast difference not only in the performance of different metals, but also in the safety of different metals.
I, for one, have done a lot of research on the safety of using different metals when they're in contact with foods or other consumable substances.
One of the things included in the high price of an authentic, is the transparency of quality materials used. All authentic designers I've spoken with (or purchased from, or have considered/researched), are open and willing to provide the list of materials used. Clone makers are not. And when they do, they lie. And I've seen it. Notice, I didn't say the "affordable authentic makers". Because even most of them will be honest about their materials.

When it comes to the safety of materials used, one must consider this dismaying observation...If you're using a device that is made of inferior/"mystery" materials, that come in contact with what you're consuming (e-liquid/juice/what have you), you are, in most cases, doing more damage to yourself than when you were smoking. And that fact cannot be refuted.
So when you, or anyone else on this thread, speaks of safety, don't be so blinded by another's post(s), that you forget about the safety of quality materials. Because they play just as big a part, if not the biggest part, in vaping safely.
---------------------------------
I'm not joining this asinine conversation from either standpoint, as it's mostly just a humorous journey into the human condition, reserved for my morning poop time. But, you're firing arrows from the top of your moral high ground, just the same as everyone else is. I'm just highlighting on the idea that you may not have considered the issue from someone else's point of view. Again, I said "MAY NOT have considered"...I didn't say "HAVE NOT considered".
Please, all of you, continue. I had very spicy buffalo wings for dinner last night, and I feel a second trip to the porcelain throne approaching. I need more reading material!

Are you sure you are not taking that voop from the Oval Office..making executive decisions? You sound like a politician. LMAO :D
High quality stainless steel, Russian copper,..or Greek brass is the new excuse to pay $250 for a tube mod or PV now eh? Or atty with ceramic decks perhaps..How much are those bad boys? $180 or maybe a bit cheaper? $100 perhaps for a pos post with two negative posts..gold plated no doubt?..This is voop is getting deep,:facepalm:

Whatever floats your :banana:boat I recon. :D

I'm playing with you,..I hope you realize that..I have ONE clone mod like I said,..and it performs magnificently. The REO's Mod's LPG does as well,..but so does the cheap AUTHENTIC Sig100.
 

Sirius

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Hey those Chinese are some BAD SOBs...My Sigelei totally rocks and I doubt I ever even use the wattage that thing is capable of.,...and yeah,..that is an Orchid V3 atty for a topper on there..Cloned of course because Orchid doesn't make a V3. :D
Holds more juice and is built just as sound as the authentic Orchid with the plastic tank.I prefer the pyrex tank that $22 clone came with though..It's HIGHER QUALITY! ;)

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roxynoodle

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And another thing :)

I've been following a used auth on ebay for a few days, wondering whether to buy it. It looks perfect, the spares kit is auth, the seller has a receipt. But I don't trust that the seller has not bought an auth and a clone and has swapped them out to sell. When even here, there is a report of a clone being sold as an auth - and I've seen one on Amazon also - then to my mind there is no real used market in auths. For me, branded clones have killed the used market in auths. Which is a shame. Buying a used auth is as much of a lottery as buying a clone.

I know what you mean. People have been burned here. I bought a Gus Estia on ebay, but there aren't any clones of it. I'm always leary of buying used authentics from people I don't know if there are clones. Sometimes its just better to buy new.
 

ErnieKim

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There is a huge difference between generic and counterfeit. I have looked at lots of generics. They make them different enough in their packaging and markings that they could not be confused with another manufacturer's item.

If on the other hand, someone put a generic in a package and tried to sell it as an original, then you have a different situation entirely but the manufacturers of the generics should not be condemned for someone else's actions.

Please get your facts straight. These generalized statements that all generics are counterfeits demonstrate a high degree of ignorance.

You go out and buy generic items all the time. You don't walk down the store isles and look for the most expensive items and toss them in your shopping cart. There is absolutely no difference here.

So to the elitist generic-haters, If you think there really is counterfeiting going on, then cite some real examples, the names of companies and advertisements for generics being sold as something else. Somehow I doubt that you will. Because they are being sold as generics; less expensive than the original, without all the fancy finishing touches. Good enough for someone who knows what they want and smart enough to do a bit of homework/research; someone like Ricks and a LOT of other people.
 
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