Anyone else notice that the OP started this thread and hasn't been seen since? Looks like he got exactly what he wanted.
clone vs Authentic: The Real Discussion
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As a noobie on a budget, I am hesitant to shell out money on something I may not like. So for my first venture into RBAs I went with a clone, just to see if I like it or if I'm even any good at it. If I am good at it then I'll probably save up my money and purchase the real deal.
I still say innokin does it right. Which is why you don't see innokin clones. Good mods (sure not as stellar as some, but good none the less), at low price point. If you can get the real thing for only 10-20 bucks more then the clone would cost, the yes, most would buy the real deal. It's a different ball game when the clone is 1/5th, sometimes 1/10th the cost of the original.
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Annnnnnnnd... The wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round, round and round.
As long as there are clones of reasonable quality, they will be bought in great quantities. Nothing anybody can say will change that. It is what it is.
As long as there are clones of reasonable quality, they will be bought in great quantities. Nothing anybody can say will change that. It is what it is.
I know it is what it is and I know anyone can buy anything they want, I agree with stuff like inokin and ud and yihi and any other inexpensive mass produced stuff.
the whole point of mine is companies like hcigar and all the other counterfeit companies don't have to make counterfeit stuff to dominate the market. they could just as easily do what real modders do which is use existing items as a base idea but then change them up a bit and then put there own name on it. people would still buy it. why does it have to be an exact copy of another design, ripping off everything, right down to the trademarks and serial numbers? it doesn't have to be...
hell I'll be the first to admit that these "clones" are awesome bang for the buck and for what you pay for them, sometimes you get an amazing product for so little money. I remember the first time I bought an igo s for like $11. not a clone but I was so impressed with the quality for so little money. I can certainly understand the appeal and I can certainly understand anyone not having much money wanting stuff like this, but this is where some will just say screw it and just embrace the clones while others will not want to lower themselves to something that they know in there heart is just wrong.
I'd rather have an authentic timex than a fake rolex, and I'd rather have a plastic walmart bag than a fake gucci bag. fake stuff just doesn't jive with me, and obviously there are others who feel the same way. as I've said I'd rather have one real mod and one real atty than a whole crap load of fastech stuff. obviously other would rather have the crapload of fastech stuff, to each there own and again, anyone can buy whatever they want, but I still say it's sad that things are the way they are because they don't have to be. these clone companies could have dominated the market in an ethical way rather than stealing designs... especially since I bet that any one of these clone companies has way more money and assets than the modders they are ripping off in the first place.
they don't do it because they have to, they do it because they don't have any morals and they can get away with stealing. there are way more greedy customers than customers with morals who wouldn't buy it on principal alone... not too many would forgo a great deal on principle, I get that, still doesn't make it right to me but hey, you want to go sticking AMG badges on your C300 and sporting some fake DG glasses and puffing on your fake nemmy with a fake atty then more power to you, go for it, I can still think it's wrong and sad really, after all it's just my opinion
the whole point of mine is companies like hcigar and all the other counterfeit companies don't have to make counterfeit stuff to dominate the market. they could just as easily do what real modders do which is use existing items as a base idea but then change them up a bit and then put there own name on it. people would still buy it. why does it have to be an exact copy of another design, ripping off everything, right down to the trademarks and serial numbers? it doesn't have to be...
hell I'll be the first to admit that these "clones" are awesome bang for the buck and for what you pay for them, sometimes you get an amazing product for so little money. I remember the first time I bought an igo s for like $11. not a clone but I was so impressed with the quality for so little money. I can certainly understand the appeal and I can certainly understand anyone not having much money wanting stuff like this, but this is where some will just say screw it and just embrace the clones while others will not want to lower themselves to something that they know in there heart is just wrong.
I'd rather have an authentic timex than a fake rolex, and I'd rather have a plastic walmart bag than a fake gucci bag. fake stuff just doesn't jive with me, and obviously there are others who feel the same way. as I've said I'd rather have one real mod and one real atty than a whole crap load of fastech stuff. obviously other would rather have the crapload of fastech stuff, to each there own and again, anyone can buy whatever they want, but I still say it's sad that things are the way they are because they don't have to be. these clone companies could have dominated the market in an ethical way rather than stealing designs... especially since I bet that any one of these clone companies has way more money and assets than the modders they are ripping off in the first place.
they don't do it because they have to, they do it because they don't have any morals and they can get away with stealing. there are way more greedy customers than customers with morals who wouldn't buy it on principal alone... not too many would forgo a great deal on principle, I get that, still doesn't make it right to me but hey, you want to go sticking AMG badges on your C300 and sporting some fake DG glasses and puffing on your fake nemmy with a fake atty then more power to you, go for it, I can still think it's wrong and sad really, after all it's just my opinion
Infinite actually did that with their CLT RDA it a mix of the Stilare, Tobh and Helios all in one.I know it is what it is and I know anyone can buy anything they want, I agree with stuff like inokin and ud and yihi and any other inexpensive mass produced stuff.
the whole point of mine is companies like hcigar and all the other counterfeit companies don't have to make counterfeit stuff to dominate the market. they could just as easily do what real modders do which is use existing items as a base idea but then change them up a bit and then put there own name on it. people would still buy it. why does it have to be an exact copy of another design, ripping off everything, right down to the trademarks and serial numbers? it doesn't have to be...
hell I'll be the first to admit that these "clones" are awesome bang for the buck and for what you pay for them, sometimes you get an amazing product for so little money. I remember the first time I bought an igo s for like $11. not a clone but I was so impressed with the quality for so little money. I can certainly understand the appeal and I can certainly understand anyone not having much money wanting stuff like this, but this is where some will just say screw it and just embrace the clones while others will not want to lower themselves to something that they know in there heart is just wrong.
I'd rather have an authentic timex than a fake rolex, and I'd rather have a plastic walmart bag than a fake gucci bag. fake stuff just doesn't jive with me, and obviously there are others who feel the same way. as I've said I'd rather have one real mod and one real atty than a whole crap load of fastech stuff. obviously other would rather have the crapload of fastech stuff, to each there own and again, anyone can buy whatever they want, but I still say it's sad that things are the way they are because they don't have to be. these clone companies could have dominated the market in an ethical way rather than stealing designs... especially since I bet that any one of these clone companies has way more money and assets than the modders they are ripping off in the first place.
they don't do it because they have to, they do it because they don't have any morals and they can get away with stealing. there are way more greedy customers than customers with morals who wouldn't buy it on principal alone... not too many would forgo a great deal on principle, I get that, still doesn't make it right to me but hey, you want to go sticking AMG badges on your C300 and sporting some fake DG glasses and puffing on your fake nemmy with a fake atty then more power to you, go for it, I can still think it's wrong and sad really, after all it's just my opinion
you cannot Clone a Mod - NO DNA
You can only make a 1:1 Copy
I can see it now: Hcigar reverse engineered manhattan mod
Why is it so hard for people to admit the difference between a counterfeit of trademarked/patented items, and copies of mods that don't have said protection? People keep saying the same thing over and over. Comments that boil down to those of us who buy clones are morally lacking somehow. There is NOTHING immoral about purchasing a perfectly legal product, whatever you think about the companies that make them aside. You say you would rather have one authentic over a lot of clones, and that's great for you. On my current budget I could also only afford one mech.......which happens to be a clone. Is it immoral for me to want to drip on a mech? Is it immoral for me to purchase the only mod I could afford, a legally purchased clone? I wish I could punch in the nose the next person who calls me, no matter how back handedly, immoral for buying a clone. That argument is petty, and overused. :/
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Couldn't agree more , you can also notice in FT you don't see many smotech clones , probably for the same reason - the authentic is simply having a reasonable price to it .
I never looked at fastech, but some clone companies clone anything even the cheap igo-w.
They clone the Igo-w ? i mean ... lol are they selling it for 2 bucks or what ?
Agreed, they both have there place. There will always be a market for authentic mods, clones if anything bring more people into the mech world. If I suddenly came into money I would be happy to drop cash on an authentic paragon mod....i would be in a different situation. Until something like that happens, I can't justify spending that kind of money, so my next mod will probably be a paragon clone, used
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To me it doesn't matter if a person has enough money or not. I simply cannot fathom paying 200 bucks for a tube that holds a battery. My clones (I have a brass and stainless nemmy) have been sanded to remove any markings. I like it that way. I have almost pulled the trigger (many times) on a provari and a protovapor xpv. Each time at checkout I think okay forum says do it for the small business.. then I think what about me and my family. I have children going into college too. So do I think about the business children or my own. My daughter went to visit OU a weekend ago. 25k a year...... I close the page grab my clone with a kick (it is an evolve) with a pt2 and grab a seat outside to enjoy a vape.
These also happen to be regulated mods... where I can justify the price by the quality of the chip inside. Not just a tube and a battery with a logo etched in.
A law is being broken when non-deceptive counterfeiting occurs, but also a law that would be very tough to enforce. Like kids smoking underage. If all kids do this, and very few get busted, then any kid could conclude that no law is being broken, nothing immoral is being done.
I have not purchased plenty of knockoffs throughout the years, and if I did, I would be rather up front about it being something that was illegal. I've done illegal things plenty of times in my life, i.e. I will drive over the speed limit fairly frequently, and realize when I'm doing it, that it is against the law. Still going to drive over the speed limit.
I have distinguished between the two a few times. Previous discussions on this topic had me researching and learning difference between deceptive and non-deceptive counterfeiting.
A non-deceptive counterfeit is not a perfectly legal product. Thus, if you participate in that sort of market, you are quite plausibly engaging in an immoral activity. In the non-deceptive counterfeit market a design was stolen. Everyone that pays for the counterfeit (knowing it is a knock-off) is supporting the theft. That would be the immoral part. Now, if everyone in this market, but mainly the cloners, were to have a policy of giving say 10% of all revenue to original designer, I would call that trying to make amends, and playing fair. But that never seems to even come up, which looks an awful lot like greed to me.
LOL on punching the nose of someone like me. With logic you are giving as sound, I could, rather easily justify someone stealing shipments of existing legal products (originals) and then when they turn around and sell those, or even give them away, what would be immoral about me wanting one of those? Especially if I add in there that I can't afford the expensive price tag that it normally retails for? What have I done wrong in this situation when the product is "perfectly legal?"
Whose law ? The US picks and chooses which international laws it will abide by and which ones it won't , international law , patents and copyrights don't mean jack if a country doesn't recognise them . With as much illegal crap that US corporations engage in abroad we can't even claim the moral high ground anymore . I will purchase what I please when I please and I owe no one an explanation for it .
We have laws on America about the sale of knockoffs of patented items, and shops found to be doing so are quickly shut down....there is people whose sole job is to find shops doing so. You can find clones in almost any vape shop because they ARE legal to purchase. None of your analogies fit the situation, for one, you talk about stealing and selling the actual product. I'm done with all of this, as it had become an infantile repetition of no it isn't, yes it is, and no one gains. Enjoy your high horse, I'm going to go enjoy my vape.
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I seen it at a B&M if you get the clone instead of the original you save a whole $1 + tax at least ay that shop
hey man, I have liked every one of your posts in this thread because I said I would if you proved me wrong... technically I think a place selling counterfeit sunglasses online only and with no physical address listed anywhere is pretty shady(no pun intended) but you are right in that there are others outside of the vape world doing it to, so yeah, I conceded to you on that one because I said I would. there disclaimer shows that they know what they are doing is illegal and immoral and personally I believe that if this was a physical store they would be shut down, but on the intenetz anything goes, there are plenty of illegal things I can buy on the internetz... I'm in NYC and I have seen raids on the little vendors on canal street in chinatown selling fake handbags and fake watches... the cops would come in and raid them and confiscate everything, and a week later they'd be selling the same stuff a block away. I was always fascinated by the kind of people who bought this crap. I mean why? why would you want to buy a fake rolex or a fake prada bag for $40-$50???
so now you are telling me that you wish you could try to physically assault me because I question your morals? why?, to prove to me that you have such high morals? maybe you actually think that's the moral and ethical way to handle that too?
I never said anyone can't buy fake stuff, if you want fake stuff then fine, buy fake stuff, but to say that the genuine stuff is too expensive as your justification to buying fake stuff to me is just funny and I think that all of the support of the fake stuff just drives this theft of designs in the first place... some see it and some choose not to, and some refuse to support an industry of fake ripped off designs and counterfeit stuff, others don't care as long as they get what they want. yeah these will be no end to this debate because some see it and care but some choose not to, never going to win a debate like this on either side
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