Clones... Why?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Haha. What a fun thread to read. I forgot how dramatic this forum could be.

Whether you want to admit it or not, the industry needs clones, and since the "originals" choose to with-hold supply it's not like they are losing a sale to a clone when they have no product to offer. In electronics anything you have outsourced WILL be copied and made available to anyone willing to pay. Does that make it right? No, but as a consumer it's my job to decide what is worth my hard earned money. If the originals decided they wanted to sell more it's as simple as removing exclusivity and opening up the throttle on production. I own a clone and paid enough to get a quality mod, but paying 4x the price for something because it has a serial number is asinine.
 

GreMos90

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 16, 2014
200
118
Alberta
Originals can be clones too ;)

zol69.jpg


16c2gi1.jpg

:?: whaaaaaat the <insert swear word here>
 

Johnny Phatsaqs

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Mar 28, 2014
200
157
Houston, Texas
I guess since I like a style that's no longer available as an original, I should just go without. Wouldn't want to disappoint some Internet warrior. Especially if he's wearing a Fedora.

Why should I care more about someone's IP than they do? If they can't be bothered to get a trademark, patent, whatever... That's on them.
 

Maurice Pudlo

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Nov 27, 2013
1,601
2,232
United States
It's a leather top hat, you can get your own too. Head'n Home Handmade Hats but they aren't going to be in your price range, you know it is just a hat and leather and shouldn't cost as much as it did and I'm sure you could find a clone for less, thus increasing the purchasing power of your $$$.

Maurice
 

Johnny Phatsaqs

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Mar 28, 2014
200
157
Houston, Texas
It's a leather top hat, you can get your own too. Head'n Home Handmade Hats but they aren't going to be in your price range, you know it is just a hat and leather and shouldn't cost as much as it did and I'm sure you could find a clone for less, thus increasing the purchasing power of your $$$.

Maurice

Alright, I chuckled.
 

Johnny Phatsaqs

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Mar 28, 2014
200
157
Houston, Texas
And to me it seems still to spend $200-$300 on a battery tube. Different strokes. Again, how is there ZERO culpability on the creators to A) protect their own product and B) make more of them. Not everyone can get their hands on something if they only make a couple hundred or 999 of them. The other thing you aren't taking in to consideration are people that are just getting in to it. They go to a vape shop, it's for sale, they like it, they buy it. And? Are they the scum of the Earth for not assuming that that is "wrong?"

Life's short. Is this really worth being upset over? A battery tube. It's a frickin' tube, man.
 

Maurice Pudlo

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Nov 27, 2013
1,601
2,232
United States
And to me it seems still to spend $200-$300 on a battery tube.
Sure it's silly to spend $200-$300 on a battery tube, no more so than $300 + for a hat. But the hat pleases me and as such it is worth what I paid for it. The same goes for any device really, they are worth what you are willing to pay.

If you aren't willing or able to pay the $200-$300 on a battery tube then whatever design in that price range is not for you. It should be obvious that there are alternatives.

Different strokes. Again, how is there ZERO culpability on the creators to A) protect their own product and B) make more of them.
Would you be upset if someone walked into your home and stole everything you ever worked for? Or maybe your car gets keyed in the parking lot, because you failed to put it in a car cover? If someone pops you in the mouth is it your fault for not moving fast enough? It is exactly the same concept, you shouldn't have to put up walls and locks and guards to preserve what you have worked for, leaving your stuff alone should be a common courtesy world wide. Your blaming the victims, and laughing about the injury you know your causing.

Are you blaming the mod designer for not making enough? They make as many as they like. But for giggles I'd like to take that idea a step farther. Passing the blame onto others is really all this is, failing to accept responsibility for ones own actions is a huge issue. You can say the mods were on the market already, and that's where the wrong happened but that doesn't make your purchase a good act, it is a supporting wrong in and of itself. Even if you go all the way back to the mod maker himself, the clone is still wrong, and buying a clone is still wrong.

Not everyone can get their hands on something if they only make a couple hundred or 999 of them. The other thing you aren't taking in to consideration are people that are just getting in to it. They go to a vape shop, it's for sale, they like it, they buy it. And? Are they the scum of the Earth for not assuming that that is "wrong?"

Correct, but really now; is everyone in the world so entitled these days that they thing they should be able to have what everyone else has, there aren't enough Bugatti Veyron's to go around either, or plots of land on beaches, or whatever it is that is for some reason universally desired? Those things, those desires, they are the stuff that motivates us to work hard and move ahead. It will be a sad day indeed when you see a Bugatti Veyron change hands for $500 like my first car did back in the day. If you have no goals that are even just slightly out of reach you have no reason to push yourself to be better. That is sad.

I think somewhere earlier I indicated that knowingly buying a clone is an ethical issue, there is certainly no way ethics can come into play if you have no idea that you are buying a clone. One would assume upon learning that something is a clone the situation changes somewhat.

The little Donkey mod posted earlier in this thread is interesting in that it has a profiled exterior, and it only costs around $50, is but one example. There are more than enough vaping devices to go around that aren't clones.

Life's short. Is this really worth being upset over? A battery tube. It's a frickin' tube, man.
Absolutely it is worth it! When folks are proudly walking around spouting HaHa stupid idiot didn't patent his design so now there are a million clones out there and I'm going to save $150. Stupid idiots that bought originals, they payed $200-$300 on a battery tube that looks just like this clone I payed $50 for, idiots.

Maurice
 
Last edited:

Unclefunkle

Full Member
Feb 14, 2014
15
9
Vegas
Seems to be a lot of emotions on this topic. Lets take money/cost out of it. You have an original limited quantity product, someone, and the country doesn't matter, copies the design and floods the market with matching logos and symbols, which one of these products don't belong? Now the real question is this, why are original owners so willing to put down the knock offs? Again, cost is not a factor. Well I think it boils down to being a part of something special, it is limited and rare, but then see knock-offs everywhere kinda dilutes the exclusivity. But that is taking ego's and elitist mentality out of the equation.

Look how many ego style batteries are out there, where is the outrage over those.

With that being said, I own an original, but a lot of clones, the clones are my daily vape gear and I will continue to buy them. There is only one more original I want, and that's the black copper stingray when available again. But for now clone/knock-off/counterfeit it shall be, If that is offensive to anyone, I am sure I will survive. However, when someone asks, I do not say "oh, its a Nemesis", I say "Its a Nemesis clone" I never leave out the clone part, and I have never had anyone start a clone/original debate because we didn't get into this hobby for the Gucci Gear, but to stop smoking and that is what counts.
 

Lucasness

Full Member
Apr 23, 2014
51
1
MN
Sure it's silly to spend $200-$300 on a battery tube, no more so than $300 + for a hat. But the hat pleases me and as such it is worth what I paid for it. The same goes for any device really, they are worth what you are willing to pay.

If you aren't willing or able to pay the $200-$300 on a battery tube then whatever design in that price range is not for you. It should be obvious that there are alternatives.


Would you be upset if someone walked into your home and stole everything you ever worked for? Or maybe your car gets keyed in the parking lot, because you failed to put it in a car cover? If someone pops you in the mouth is it your fault for not moving fast enough? It is exactly the same concept, you shouldn't have to put up walls and locks and guards to preserve what you have worked for, leaving your stuff alone should be a common courtesy world wide. Your blaming the victims, and laughing about the injury you know your causing.

Are you blaming the mod designer for not making enough? They make as many as they like. But for giggles I'd like to take that idea a step farther. Passing the blame onto others is really all this is, failing to accept responsibility for ones own actions is a huge issue. You can say the mods were on the market already, and that's where the wrong happened but that doesn't make your purchase a good act, it is a supporting wrong in and of itself. Even if you go all the way back to the mod maker himself, the clone is still wrong, and buying a clone is still wrong.



Correct, but really now; is everyone in the world so entitled these days that they thing they should be able to have what everyone else has, there aren't enough Bugatti Veyron's to go around either, or plots of land on beaches, or whatever it is that is for some reason universally desired? Those things, those desires, they are the stuff that motivates us to work hard and move ahead. It will be a sad day indeed when you see a Bugatti Veyron change hands for $500 like my first car did back in the day. If you have no goals that are even just slightly out of reach you have no reason to push yourself to be better. That is sad.

I think somewhere earlier I indicated that knowingly buying a clone is an ethical issue, there is certainly no way ethics can come into play if you have no idea that you are buying a clone. One would assume upon learning that something is a clone the situation changes somewhat.

The little Donkey mod posted earlier in this thread is interesting in that it has a profiled exterior, and it only costs around $50, is but one example. There are more than enough vaping devices to go around that aren't clones.


Absolutely it is worth it! When folks are proudly walking around spouting HaHa stupid idiot didn't patent his design so now there are a million clones out there and I'm going to save $150. Stupid idiots that bought originals, they payed $200-$300 on a battery tube that looks just like this clone I payed $50 for, idiots.

Maurice
I got a Veyron on a trade of another hand built race car, that I got for free. Then I crashed it. Somebody threw a battery tube out the window of a vehicle in font of me. I swerved and lost control, slid off the road and hit a tree. It wasn't destroyed by any means, so I sold it back to Bugatti. So I bought Corvette, and a truck. And a beautiful home and a bunch of clones.
 

TheJakeBailey

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 15, 2013
1,275
2,596
Austin,TX, USA
At the end of the day, even though i would put it more diplomatically, Maurice is right.
When you buy a clone, you buy a counterfeit. A ripoff. A fake.
However, dont get pissy when someone points out that lack of morals.....you are the one buying the ripoff.
There is no way around that fact. All of the reasons are just excuses for what you have done.
If being told that bothers any one of you enough to actually respond to an argument in an internet forum, then you can spout off about how much you cant be stopped, how smart you are for buying the ripoff, all that blah blah......you know what you've done.
And on some level, it bothers you.
Or you wouldnt bother to defend your actions.
And yes, responding IS defending.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

I'm not bothered one teeny tiny little bit. Not even a fraction of a fraction of a teeny tiny little bit. If you could slice a teeny tiny little bit into one million smaller teeny tiny bits, I would not even be bothered as much as just one of these bits.

Now if you can even imagine an infinitesimally smaller bit... That bit is how much it bothers me what people on the Internet think of it. Plenty of real world things to worry about.
 

xtwosm0kesx

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 30, 2010
2,298
3,160
Face down in the gutter, USA

El Heisenberg

Full Member
Verified Member
Mar 14, 2014
62
110
United States
Well I am definately on the clone side... My first mod was an "Authentic" MVP2 whether or not it was a clone I wouldn't know and doesn't bother me either way. My next Purchase was a Nemesis clone from a US ebay seller for such a great price I couldn't resist. The MVP2 has kept me off analogs since I started vaping on 3/18/14!! I've always been the type of person to look for the best price for anything I am buying and this hobby is no exception. Are we all here to be judged or to quit the cancer sticks... :2c:
 

Maurice Pudlo

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Nov 27, 2013
1,601
2,232
United States
Maybe look at it this way, you quit supporting BT and BP and shifted your money over to BM in the worlds second largest economy fueled by what equates to slave labor.

In the world without money situation there is no change to the argument, the wrong is theft of intellectual property and supporting that theft.

Without a market for clones originality would prevail and better designs would hit the market at a faster pace.

To go on about why the originators don't flood the market in the first place, not everyone can fund mass production, and not everyone has the desire even if they have the funds. What is the point when clones hit the market and kill your market anyway? There are only so many vapers with so much money to spend on vape gear; China already has the lions share of the market in terms of non cigalike devices why hand them any more?

It truly baffles me how little this matters to people. The me me me is just resounding so loudly.

Being chastised for having some ethics and morals is quite interesting to say the least.

Enjoy your ill gotten spoils, may all your counterfeit batteries leave you unscathed upon their death. :facepalm:

Maurice
 

xtwosm0kesx

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 30, 2010
2,298
3,160
Face down in the gutter, USA
Maybe look at it this way, you quit supporting BT and BP and shifted your money over to BM in the worlds second largest economy fueled by what equates to slave labor.

In the world without money situation there is no change to the argument, the wrong is theft of intellectual property and supporting that theft.

Without a market for clones originality would prevail and better designs would hit the market at a faster pace.

To go on about why the originators don't flood the market in the first place, not everyone can fund mass production, and not everyone has the desire even if they have the funds. What is the point when clones hit the market and kill your market anyway? There are only so many vapers with so much money to spend on vape gear; China already has the lions share of the market in terms of non cigalike devices why hand them any more?

It truly baffles me how little this matters to people. The me me me is just resounding so loudly.

Being chastised for having some ethics and morals is quite interesting to say the least.

Enjoy your ill gotten spoils, may all your counterfeit batteries leave you unscathed upon their death. :facepalm:

Maurice

So you bought your high end top hat from George Dunnage's company/descendants or at the very least you paid them some royalties?

If not, you're an intellectual property thief with no ethics and morals. Right?

EVERY SINGLE THING in your house/life better be an 'original' (we already know it isn't) or you're just a selective hypocrite.

This thread just needs to be locked.
 

Maurice Pudlo

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Nov 27, 2013
1,601
2,232
United States
Seeing as the design is nowhere near original I don't think I would call it a top hat clone. Neither the material or construction is in any way similar. So I don't feel as if I'm a hypocritical person for having the hat. I think you miss the idea of what a clone is, an exact copy of an original. Not an inspired by or similar thing. A Chevy truck is not a clone of a Ford truck, it is another truck. The same as a Caravella is not a clone of a Nemesis they are both mods not clones.

Maurice
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread