Clones... Why?
- Thread starter GreMos90
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I have been around these circles with other posters in the earlier pages.
The thing that I find amusing is that so far, few if any will admit outright to what it is they are doing buying a "clone".
They will talk around it.
The thing that I find amusing is that so far, few if any will admit outright to what it is they are doing buying a "clone".
They will talk around it.
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Let's see who will show they support the individual vape gear manufacturing guys out there, I'll start.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WPmR02-ZPZlltZMoDI3kqvvgRglSVl5IHxc58Bf4ffs/pubhtml
Maurice
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WPmR02-ZPZlltZMoDI3kqvvgRglSVl5IHxc58Bf4ffs/pubhtml
Maurice
^This all day ... and truly, there is nothing more to say. But of course discussions will continue, as "reason, and purpose" appear to be quite unpopular these days.
If nobody purchased originals your clones would never exist would they?
I'm not attacking the person who buys a clone, I'm questioning the ethics and morals behind the decision they are making. Thus far the answer is money, value, or didn't know it was a clone.
I'm okay with didn't know, I've been duped into buying things that I later found were not original, and I've been gifted crappy clone stuff.
It's the I look for, wait for, lust after the best clone thing I'm most curious about. Obviously the buyer of this type wants something as close to the original as is possible, to me that is something to question.
I've been pretty much attacked for having an opinion, all but called a hypocrite for having a leather top hat (which by the way even if this design were patented, patents last just 20 years, at that point designs are open to be copied at will).
Maurice
I'm not attacking the person who buys a clone, I'm questioning the ethics and morals behind the decision they are making. Thus far the answer is money, value, or didn't know it was a clone.
I'm okay with didn't know, I've been duped into buying things that I later found were not original, and I've been gifted crappy clone stuff.
It's the I look for, wait for, lust after the best clone thing I'm most curious about. Obviously the buyer of this type wants something as close to the original as is possible, to me that is something to question.
I've been pretty much attacked for having an opinion, all but called a hypocrite for having a leather top hat (which by the way even if this design were patented, patents last just 20 years, at that point designs are open to be copied at will).
Maurice
So by this logic when a patent expires, and you begin to make your own designs based on the patent, you're no longer stealing 'intellectual property'? LOL
I would estimate 95% of mod manufacturers have ZERO patents on their designs, so by YOUR OWN logic there is nothing wrong with them being cloned.
I don't necessarily agree with the use of peoples exact branding on clones, but it doesn't really deter me from buying them.
Also the vast majority of mod makers likely dont have trademarks on their logo's/designs, so they're fair game by YOUR logic also.
High horse is getting a bit shorter, eh?
Not at all, patents exist because people like you don't care about intellectual property rights. Please refer back a few posts for my argument to exactly this.
Maurice
Maurice
Alright, i'm done arguing with you about this since you obviously see the world through rose colored glasses.
Also for someone who's quite verbose in his posts, this one seems to really lack any direct rebuttal to the points i made about your logic in the previous post.
You claim it's fine to 'clone' something (insert every thing EVER here) after some arbitrarily determined amount of time, but scream about protecting rights of those who created the intellectual property.
In your perfect world wouldn't intellectual property be protected forever, not just some number our regulatory agencies decided was fair?
Apparently as time progresses YOUR morals slowly degrade until the magic day the patent expires and what you call theft all of the sudden clicks over into the acceptable column in YOUR brain.
What if, hypothetically, the creator of the 'intellectual property' didn't put their product on the market until 1 day before their patent expired, and therefor was unable to reap the benefits ($) of said 'IP', the next day its a free for all in your mind right? As long as the gov't tells you its 'acceptable' to begin stealing the 'IP'?
You keep making statements that these clones are hurting the original manufacturers, i ask you to provide evidence. Its well documented the nearly ALL higher end mod makers have LITTLE TO NO trouble selling their original's EVEN AFTER clones have flooded the market. Atmomixani, for example, has publicly stated that the nemmy clones have done little to slow the demand for his products.
Shouldn't you still be buying your Ibuprofen from Boots Group because (Advil) is technically a clone? Oh wait the patent is expired so you don't care who's making the money now, right?
As for me I make ....loads of money but only buy clones because I don't want those poor children in the chinese factories to lose their jobs. I have morals, unlike certain others...
Sent from Tapatalk, typos its fault.
Sent from Tapatalk, typos its fault.
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I see what you're saying, man. I really do. And, in actuality, agree with you. That said, it seems you care more about the intellectual property than those that created it to begin with. It doesn't fall on me to protect it for them. That's on them, and they need to do it themselves. Pay for that right. You can say it's expensive, that's fine. But if they can't afford it, maybe they should consider making more and cover that overhead. Once they step up and put an effort in to protecting themselves and their pretty tubes, I may start giving a damn myself.
Cheers
I wonder why nobody commented about this, lots of debate about "original" manufacturers getting their design stolen, yet, I'm looking at a complete rip-off of a Sunwayman flashlight that existed long before the Panzer did.
V10A - Products - sunwayman
I cant imagine this is the only one, a quick Google for custom flashlights pulled this one as well, built in 2007:
FlashlightNews | Lumencraft Introduces Titanium/Carbon Fiber Pocket Flashlight
I know, this is one is probably more coincidental, but I'm sure a look through various flashlight forums will pull some pretty near identical designs.
V10A - Products - sunwayman
I cant imagine this is the only one, a quick Google for custom flashlights pulled this one as well, built in 2007:
FlashlightNews | Lumencraft Introduces Titanium/Carbon Fiber Pocket Flashlight
I know, this is one is probably more coincidental, but I'm sure a look through various flashlight forums will pull some pretty near identical designs.
Because everyone knows that these God-tier OG mod makers aren't capable of lifting ideas here and there for their designs. Everything is original to them. And everyone should pay $300 for a tube to put their batteries in. And if they only made 300 of them, and you weren't aware or hovering at your desk waiting for the exact nanosecond to order, you should just go without instead of having a battery tube you like.
Two things about the Panzer's, they aren't flashlights, and while very close it is different. Maybe not enough to tell at first glance but different never the less.
Also a very poor quality of build if I do say so myself. I wouldn't pay the asking price for one, nor am I interested in a clone.
As for patent length, we are in line with what the world thinks is ethical, and morally right for the greater good of all. I agree that a length of 20 years is acceptably long and not prohibitively expensive to the needs of the public.
You circumvent this nearly world wide policy by buying clones prior to that length of time.
Maurice
Also a very poor quality of build if I do say so myself. I wouldn't pay the asking price for one, nor am I interested in a clone.
As for patent length, we are in line with what the world thinks is ethical, and morally right for the greater good of all. I agree that a length of 20 years is acceptably long and not prohibitively expensive to the needs of the public.
You circumvent this nearly world wide policy by buying clones prior to that length of time.
Maurice
No, i don't, because THEY DON'T HAVE PATENTS ON THEIR TECHNOLOGY.
What's the difference between an expired patent and one that DOESN'T EXIST? You've already, based on your previous replies, answered this: There isn't any.
And with that i say 'Good Day Sir!', it's obvious you only argue with those who won't point out the GLARING flaws in your "morals", "ethics" and "logic".
Carry on.
Yeah, I would circumvent that nearly world wide policy if the original manufacturer could be bothered to apply for it.
The thing is, registering patents and trademarks can take years to go through the process. As fast as this industry moves, it would most likely be pointless.
hahaha
Morals and ethics tend to be based on what is accepted as the right thing to do. You shouldn't need a law to tell you its bad to kill any more than you should need a law to tell you stealing is wrong.
Maurice
Maurice
Sometimes what's moral and ethical is subjective. Not everyone agrees about abortion, for example. There are many people who feel it is morally wrong to keep IP to themselves, such as the open source movement. So just because you, or any other number of people, feel cloning is wrong and immoral doesn't mean it is. There is likely an equal number of people who feel the opposite. This is an argument that cannot be won because there is no wrong or right answer. It completely depends on your personal beliefs.
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Actually cloning is considered illegal, immoral, unjust, wrong, unethical, and just plain wrong by enough people that there are laws against it.
Because a person fails to seek out active protection afforded by the law does not make the theft right in the eyes of the masses who agree that such protections should exist. I agree personal morals are different for different people, the collective of all morals is what we live by, or rather are judged by. It remains that the majority frown on theft. Wait a little bit and your moral view will become the majority, the entitled of today will soon enough be the leaders of tomorrow.
The open source movement, let me have everything for nothing or I'll steal it. Good crowd that one.
Maurice
Because a person fails to seek out active protection afforded by the law does not make the theft right in the eyes of the masses who agree that such protections should exist. I agree personal morals are different for different people, the collective of all morals is what we live by, or rather are judged by. It remains that the majority frown on theft. Wait a little bit and your moral view will become the majority, the entitled of today will soon enough be the leaders of tomorrow.
The open source movement, let me have everything for nothing or I'll steal it. Good crowd that one.
Maurice
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