Clones... Why?

[catilley1092]

Evidently, some retailers aren't even afraid to sell clones, as fasttech has Astro clones for sale. It's not all about someone making thousands of cheap copies & using independent distributors to move them in back alleys, they're openly for sale on the Internet.

So are clones of popular tanks, there are many on eBay, sometimes deceivingly, selling copycats of KangerTech Pro tanks. Some will show several pictures of the real thing, go as far as state that KangerTech is the best, then there will be one picture in the group saying "this is what you'll receive". The words like Genuine will be misspelled as "Geiunine", so that no one can file a PayPal claim because it's not the real thing. By the misspelling, the seller never stated it was Genuine.

That falls back on the customer because the description wasn't carefully read, as most will state to read it & to ask questions before purchasing.

Others are up front & state they're clones, generic or OEM, or a test run of the branded product w/out the brand name etched on it.

At any rate, this is fairly transparent. Clones are everywhere. Some are good, some are crap, just as the originals.

Cat

 

[Exille]

Cant buy a Ferrari on a Honda Civic income

 

[Bad Ninja]

Cant buy a Ferrari on a Honda Civic income

Very bad analogy.
Honda -dependable, reliable, easily serviced, exceeds safe limits.
Ferrari- undependable, unreliable, insanely priced service required or they fail.

Ever seen a Ferrari with 200k miles on it?
Overpriced eye candy.

Back when Ferrari won races with cars sold to the public, a redneck from Texas built a simple Ford that beat them so badly they paid to have the rules changed.
His name was Carrol Shelby. The Cobra changed racing forever.

Hype only gets ya so far.
In the end, simple common sense outperforms hype every time.

 

[WattWick]

Maybe they try to fool themselves into thinking they are the real...

From what I have seen of authentic and counterfeit, I can't imagine buying a counterfeit to see how the authentic performs, as machining is no where as precise with the counterfeits- even pressed parts, vs. machined... I'm sure there are some which are close, but not from what I have seen.

Been thinking along these lines myself. Can't help but do a little mental face palm when I read about people buying a Paps clone "to see what the hype is all about".

Should point out that I'm not a purist. I got both clones and originals. I'd buy strictly originals if all originals were utterly perfect. However I've been burned a couple of times... and it sucks far less getting burned on a $20 mod than a $200 one.

 

[ukeman]

I'd buy strictly originals if all originals were utterly perfect. However I've been burned a couple of times... and it sucks far less getting burned on a $20 mod than a $200 one.

Not to mention that fact that for some, who are nutso whacko about this hobby, like me, but who nevertheless have an icicle's chance in hell of getting a new innovative mod when it is available.
Hell i don't even want a clone of the next best thing, if the orig. isn't perfect either.
I've gotten jaded after buying so many "good" mechs and then not using them because i didn't like this or that about them...

I don't know what to do with myself until the Gi2 clone comes out... oh yeah, there's all that copper

 

[ddloco]

So gangsta.

Wave ya clones in the a-ya

woop woop

Your staggering intellectual arguments have swayed the masses

How come when someone gets there feeling hurt, the first think they attack is intelligence? By the way I can be intellectual when I want and I can get ghetto any time I please, also last I checked this is a laid back forum where people Hang Out and chat not to be fake and sound smarter then everyone else, usless maybe you have some intelligence esteem issues so you always overcompensate to assure your self you are smart I'm smart I grew up in the hood and I'm so very proud of me are you that comfortable with your self (I guess not you had to attack someone's intellect to feel good) great job you won I'm so defeated

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[Bad Ninja]

How come when someone gets there feeling hurt the first think they attack is intelligence, by the way I can be intellectual when I want and I can get ghetto any time I please also last I checked this is a laid back forum where people Hang Out and chat not to be fake and sound smarter then everyone else usless maybe you have some intelligence esteem issues so you always overcompensate to assure your self you are smart I'm smart I grew up in the hood and I'm so very proud of me are you that comfortable with your self (I guess not you had to attack someone's intellect to feel good) great job you won I'm so defeated

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Too smart to use punctuation?
Whew!

(Just kidding, I couldn't resist)

 

[adwinistrator]

My only thought on the clones debate is this.

I just want to buy a 22mm mech mod with a bottom button and a lock ring, all original (no logos or serial #s), for $50.

It seems as of now, the only way to do this is to buy a no logo nemesis clone. Hopefully at some point, other companies will fill this market.

 

[Coelli]

As for unavailability of authentic mods as a reason to buy clones, that's if you're looking for something super rare and day 1 - but then they show up on the classifieds. That's how I got my Penny mod, that's where my 249/500 Tree of Life is coming from (it's on its way!) and a 4Nine I was looking at got sold and now the buyer is reselling it at the same price. In all cases they cost less than retail. Collectors sell their mods to finance new ones. Take advantage of it.

And as for having no money/not being able to afford a $150/$200 mod - how did people afford to smoke?!

 

[Bad Ninja]

As for unavailability of authentic mods as a reason to buy clones, that's if you're looking for something super rare and day 1 - but then they show up on the classifieds. That's how I got my Penny mod, that's where my 249/500 Tree of Life is coming from (it's on its way!) and a 4Nine I was looking at got sold and now the buyer is reselling it at the same price. In all cases they cost less than retail. Collectors sell their mods to finance new ones. Take advantage of it.

And as for having no money/not being able to afford a $150/$200 mod - how did people afford to smoke?!

I don't buy used stuff.
Sorry,
I'm not paying for someone else to use a product.
Collecting mods as an investment is akin to collecting NASCAR plates.

You can't force people into buying your used gear by reducing availability.
Someone will just make it for less.
As you can clearly see.
This isn't rocket science.
Any machinist worth their salt can make a mod.
Backyard shops can't make precision equipment any better than a large production factory.
Wake up.
If you only buy original mods that's fine.

But the holier-than-thou attitude expressed by some is ridiculous.
Getting burned on a $300 used brass tube doesn't make you better than someone who buys a $20 clone.
It just means you paid more.

 

[Coelli]

I don't buy used stuff.
Sorry,
I'm not paying for someone else to use a product.
Collecting mods as an investment is akin to collecting NASCAR plates.

You can't force people into buying your used gear by reducing availability.
Someone will just make it for less.
As you can clearly see.
This isn't rocket science.
Any machinist worth their salt can make a mod.
Backyard shops can't make precision equipment any better than a large production factory.
Wake up.
If you only buy original mods that's fine.

But the holier-than-thou attitude expressed by some is ridiculous.
Getting burned on a $300 used brass tube doesn't make you better than someone who buys a $20 clone.
It just means you paid more.

Don't take it so personally.

Unless you're one of the people who said "I would buy authentic mods but I can never find them because they're not available" or "I want to buy authentic mods but I can't afford them so I buy clones," nothing I just said applies to you. Right?

Also... you don't buy used stuff? Now who's holy?

 

[alkaiser]

the good thing, to me, is that clones are pushing mod makers to up their game. a lot of authentic mods are quite crappy and easily replicable (even improvable such as the caravela's crappy positive pin adjustment system). mod maker's can't release a half-assed mod anymore and sell it for $200+. the quality of material, tolerances, innovation, and aesthetic design are all factors that go into buying a new mod these days. the mods that do not sell out, do not deserve to sell out.

even if they manage to clone a high quality mod, it does not affect the original. compare the gp paps to the clones. the clones look similar enough, but they do not have the tolerances to match the smooth switch/lock ring. high quality authentics will sell out in minutes and the second hand market is strong. it does suck that they are insanely hard to obtain though.

and then there are the really good clones (nemesis/kayfuns/etc). this should push the authentic modders of these high quality clones to invest their profits into streamlining production and lower prices. the demand is definitely there.

 

[MrKiltYou]

I don't buy used stuff.
Sorry,
I'm not paying for someone else to use a product.

But the holier-than-thou attitude expressed by some is ridiculous.

Now who has their nose in the air? Pot/Kettle?

You can't force people into buying your used gear by reducing availability.

I have no idea what you are trying to say here. Why would an OEM, B&M, or Web Shop limit supply for the used market when they are in the business of selling new mods?

Getting burned on a $300 used brass tube doesn't make you better than someone who buys a $20 clone.
It just means you paid more.

I would suggest you take your own advice and drop the attitude. Just because we feel like supporting the original mod designer doesn't mean we got "burned". Are some mods over priced? Sure they are. Would I pay close to $300 for a plain jane Nemesis? No I wouldn't. However I might put that kind of money towards something like the V3Tronix flip. Just because a large manufacture in China can pump out 5000 of them for penny's on the dollar doesn't mean that small businesses can as well. You act like OEM's are trying to rip us all off and are charging like a 1000% markup.

 

[Bad Ninja]

Don't take it so personally.

Unless you're one of the people who said "I would buy authentic mods but I can never find them because they're not available" or "I want to buy authentic mods but I can't afford them so I buy clones," nothing I just said applies to you. Right?

Also... you don't buy used stuff? Now who's holy?

Nice attempt at an insult.

I don't want someone else's problems.
It's not holier than thou, it's from experience.

Not to mention the fact that many used mods are priced above the original sale price.
Scratches, dirt and all.
Nah.... they can go make money somewhere else.
I'm not that patsy.
I know what a threaded tube is worth.

I am not political with my money, thi.
I have no moral reason to pay insanely high prices.
I'm old school. Earn my business with professionalism and value or you simply won't get it.

 

[Jman8]

But the holier-than-thou attitude expressed by some is ridiculous.

Exactly. Counterfeiting is easily the best way to go, and helpful to the overall economy, from the consumer perspective.

Plus, it's gonna happen regardless of the holier-than-thou attitude.

And it'll guarantee that it is impossible to regulate product out of existence. Thinking that it could be is like the holier-than-though attitude on steroids.

 

[MrKiltYou]

Exactly. Counterfeiting is easily the best way to go, and helpful to the overall economy, from the consumer perspective.

Yes! This is great! Who gives a damn about small business and how they contribute to the economy! As long as I can get my stuff on the cheap everything is good!

Plus, it's gonna happen regardless of the holier-than-thou attitude.

And it'll guarantee that it is impossible to regulate product out of existence. Thinking that it could be is like the holier-than-though attitude on steroids.

I don't think anyone here has the delusion that this or any other thread on here will stop the counterfeiting market. However if someone new reads this and other threads and see's how we defend the OEM's with valid points and it gets them to think twice about a counterfeit vs an OEM it is a success...

You act like if all the OEM mod'ers went away you would still get shinny new toys. China rarely every innovates anything on their own...

 

[neutrontech]

How come when someone gets there feeling hurt the first think they attack is intelligence, by the way I can be intellectual when I want and I can get ghetto any time I please also last I checked this is a laid back forum where people Hang Out and chat not to be fake and sound smarter then everyone else usless maybe you have some intelligence esteem issues so you always overcompensate to assure your self you are smart I'm smart I grew up in the hood and I'm so very proud of me are you that comfortable with your self (I guess not you had to attack someone's intellect to feel good) great job you won I'm so defeated

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Honestly not trying to be insulting, but the use of periods would make your posts a whole lot easier to read. I had to read your post a couple times to get what you were saying.

And it'll guarantee that it is impossible to regulate product out of existence.

Boy, you just throw that plug in there any chance you get


Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

 

[Ed_C]

This isn't rocket science.

Unless, of course, you have a short and your battery starts to vent. But I don't think that's what you had in mind.

 

[adwinistrator]

I don't want artwork, logos, serial numbers, or exclusivity.

I just want a mech mod that performs decently. No magnesium springs and adamantium contacts. Just a standard 22mm width, clean lines, safe button, lock ring, and adjustable pin.

It's not that I can't afford $150 for a nice mod. I don't think it should be worth that much. If you are paying for exclusivity, rare materials, or artistic designs, that is fair to price at that level. If the market will pay for those at that price, it is fair.

I want a basic tube mech mod, which when mass produced, with decent enough materials, can be sold at $50 for a profit. If they would sell one that is not a stolen design, than it is no longer a clone! That's what I'm willing to bet the majority of clone buyers want. No one is trying to pretend they have an authentic Turtle Ship, and everyone knows you can get the clone for $50, so why not sell a similar product without the stolen design, for the same price.

Hopefully HCigar does this soon, makes their own design, and sells it for the low price.

 

[Coelli]

I want a basic tube mech mod, which when mass produced, with decent enough materials, can be sold at $50 for a profit. If they would sell one that is not a stolen design, than it is no longer a clone! That's what I'm willing to bet the majority of clone buyers want. No one is trying to pretend they have an authentic Turtle Ship, and everyone knows you can get the clone for $50, so why not sell a similar product without the stolen design, for the same price.

For what it's worth, even though I only own authentic mods, it's not because I think they make me look awesome or so I can flash them at people and say "See what I have??" It's not because I'm rolling in money. I drive a 10 year old Subaru. I don't wear jewelry, I wear nerdy t-shirts instead of designer clothes, most of the furniture in my house came from thrift stores, hell, some of my clothes too.

It's because I, personally, can't bring myself to buy something that is a blatant copy of someone else's brand and work. Again I'll point to the Tree of Life - I have one coming tomorrow, that I bought used. I looked at the clone but the big "USA" stamped on the end cap just really gets to me. I have lots and lots of stuff that's made in China (or Japan, or wherever - hell, I buy vaping stuff from By Leo and GR Modders in Greece too) but none of it is pretending to be made in the USA or trying to be a 1:1 copy of someone else's product. It's no better than all of the American flags that have "Made in China" labels. For me it crosses a line that I just don't like. That's just a personal thing.

If the Chinese came out with a quality mech that wasn't a direct copy of someone else's, I'd look into getting one. Especially if it had dragons on it.