Concerns about vaping luring non-smokers to try it.

[Hideto]

In a previous topic of mine, I mentioned I'd never smoked before because I know manufactured tobacco is poisonous and villainously addictive, but after having done research, found vaping to be a much healthier alternative. As such, I made the decision to try vaping using only the purest, most natural, and nicotine-free ingredients. This got well-meaning people upset, afraid I was starting down a very wrong-headed path. Now what's the point of this new topic here?

I am a 39 year old who lived 23 years with a smoker and was never the least bit inclined to try ANY form of tobacco, and in fact refused to kiss someone I was dating for a WEEK because they'd taken ONE puff from a cigarette so they could blow a smoke-filled bubble with bubble soap to see what it looked like. So here I am, someone who was smart enough to avoid the real thing, and yet here I am, trying to learn how to do the "fake" thing! Look at all the pretty colours of e-cig bodies. Look at the pretty colours you can choose for your lighted e-cig tips! You can get them with rhinestones and cute leather neck pouches, and lo! They come with flavours! Chocolate, anyone? Tiramisu? Bubblegum? Banana split?

With all the cool designs of e-cigs/e-cigars/e-pipes/e-something-else-you-can-smoke-juice-with, all their cool accessories, all the cool flavours, how do you deal with someone who is safely on the outside wanting in? I mean, besides simply telling them, "Please don't! It's not as safe as you think/it seems!", how do you handle it? People are lobbying the government to not ban e-cigs/etc. as a health risk, to allow indoor smoking of e-cigs/etc., and yet we don't want people to do it. How do we reconcile with what sounds like hypocrisy, even though its true intent is care for another's life and well-being? How do you prove to someone it's not cool as your sparkly-purple light flashes as you inhale chocolate-flavoured juice from your rhinestone-bewjeweled, pink e-cig tied to its matching rhinestone-bejeweled, butter-soft doeskin leather matching pink carrybag, five flavours hanging from the side in their fancy keyring-style mini-bottles? How do you tell someone something that looks and potentially tastes so cool... isn't cool? Some posters in my previous topic even were afraid that having a non-smoker declare openly, "Hey thar! I've never smoked before, but thanks to all this cool e-cig stuff, I'm gonna start, a-hyuck!" might make the government think that e-cigs are a gateway drug for kids or might encourage kids to try it, themselves.

Hopefully, as adults, we all know that simply telling a kid, "Don't do it! It's not good for you!" really doesn't work. Why did I avoid smoking? It certainly wasn't the sparkling wit and thoughtful analysis of Nancy Reagan. (Just say no!) Watching my mother grow older than she physically was, smelling gross after spending time with her, listening to her cough up her insides, all while acting like it was delicious and fun to smoke real cigs, is what smartened me up. It didn't hurt to see a picture or two of lung autopsies showing a cancerous or tar-filled lung, or noting how much snot my smoker friends produced. (Ew!)

So what do we (you, since I'm not really a smoker and don't feel right being the first with a thought on it) do about this?

 

[deback]

My opinion is that e-cigs should be considered as nicotine replacement therapy. This NRT has worked fine for me. I've tried to quit smoking using nicotine gum, patches, and Chantix. Would you consider chewing nicotine gum, applying nicotine patches, or taking Chantix? Probably not, so why would you consider vaping an e-pipe? Now that you know there will be no lingering smell from vaping an e-pipe -- and that it won't make you look "cool," why would you still want to vape?

 

[Rosa]

I strongly believe that the real reason that many of us started smoking in the first place is that, whether we knew it or not, our brains do not produce dopamine or use dopamine as effectively as other peoples brains.

I think that this is the reason that so many people who's parents are smokers end up to also become smokers, the lack of dopamine or our inability to use it is passed on genetically. I DON'T believe that it is due to the influence of seeing their parents do it when they were growing up. That's why adopted people of addictive genetic parents are more likely to become addicts during their lifetime (and often addicts to the same drug that their parents were addicted to without ever having met that parent).

The problem with smoking is that it "fixes" this dopamine deficiency in our brains but at the same time it makes our brain chemistry "give up" trying to produce or use the dopamine that we need so that it's nearly impossible to quit without suffering with depression for weeks, months, or years -- or forever if our brains can't remember to pump out and use dopamine or, because the problem stems from our genetic make up, we may never feel "right" or "happy" without smoking.

This is why mood enhancing drugs (like Chantix, Wellbutrin) work to suppress the desire to smoke. People who take those drugs are finally producing and absorbing dopamine the way the brain was intended to do.

So the question is, "what can we do to ensure that our children (society's children) do not get drawn into the allure of cigarettes -- or any drug?"

My answer is to study the science of the brain and mental/emotional disorders. Don't demonize addiction, try to understand it. People smoke as a way of self medicating - same with any drug.

 

[Lyndagayle]

In a previous topic of mine, I mentioned I'd never smoked before because I know manufactured tobacco is poisonous and villainously addictive, but after having done research, found vaping to be a much healthier alternative. As such, I made the decision to try vaping using only the purest, most natural, and nicotine-free ingredients. This got well-meaning people upset, afraid I was starting down a very wrong-headed path. Now what's the point of this new topic here?

I am a 39 year old who lived 23 years with a smoker and was never the least bit inclined to try ANY form of tobacco, and in fact refused to kiss someone I was dating for a WEEK because they'd taken ONE puff from a cigarette so they could blow a smoke-filled bubble with bubble soap to see what it looked like. So here I am, someone who was smart enough to avoid the real thing, and yet here I am, trying to learn how to do the "fake" thing! Look at all the pretty colours of e-cig bodies. Look at the pretty colours you can choose for your lighted e-cig tips! You can get them with rhinestones and cute leather neck pouches, and lo! They come with flavours! Chocolate, anyone? Tiramisu? Bubblegum? Banana split?

With all the cool designs of e-cigs/e-cigars/e-pipes/e-something-else-you-can-smoke-juice-with, all their cool accessories, all the cool flavours, how do you deal with someone who is safely on the outside wanting in? I mean, besides simply telling them, "Please don't! It's not as safe as you think/it seems!", how do you handle it? People are lobbying the government to not ban e-cigs/etc. as a health risk, to allow indoor smoking of e-cigs/etc., and yet we don't want people to do it. How do we reconcile with what sounds like hypocrisy, even though its true intent is care for another's life and well-being? How do you prove to someone it's not cool as your sparkly-purple light flashes as you inhale chocolate-flavoured juice from your rhinestone-bewjeweled, pink e-cig tied to its matching rhinestone-bejeweled, butter-soft doeskin leather matching pink carrybag, five flavours hanging from the side in their fancy keyring-style mini-bottles? How do you tell someone something that looks and potentially tastes so cool... isn't cool? Some posters in my previous topic even were afraid that having a non-smoker declare openly, "Hey thar! I've never smoked before, but thanks to all this cool e-cig stuff, I'm gonna start, a-hyuck!" might make the government think that e-cigs are a gateway drug for kids or might encourage kids to try it, themselves.

Hopefully, as adults, we all know that simply telling a kid, "Don't do it! It's not good for you!" really doesn't work. Why did I avoid smoking? It certainly wasn't the sparkling wit and thoughtful analysis of Nancy Reagan. (Just say no!) Watching my mother grow older than she physically was, smelling gross after spending time with her, listening to her cough up her insides, all while acting like it was delicious and fun to smoke real cigs, is what smartened me up. It didn't hurt to see a picture or two of lung autopsies showing a cancerous or tar-filled lung, or noting how much snot my smoker friends produced. (Ew!)

So what do we (you, since I'm not really a smoker and don't feel right being the first with a thought on it) do about this?

Wow, I just finished responding in your other thread and read this and it looks like we copied each other. LOL I stated that sometimes the "Just say NO" approach doesn't work.

 

[BradSmith]

In a rational world you wouldn't need to explain to anyone what you do with your body. A lot of vapers are very concerned with losing the legal battle over e-cigs. So they allow their own selfish motives to dictate their thought process. These are the ones that will cry "don't say that you will mess it up for me" They have a point given how possessive our government is over "property" that shouldn't be theirs to control in the first place. However, it is your body and that is what I would say if I were you. Beware though, you might find yourself in a larger debate, not that this would be a bad thing.

 

[Rosa]

Where's the gosh-darned moderator?! This person is such a troll! Can't we kick this nogoodnick off?

 

[PoliticallyIncorrect]

How do you prove to someone it's not cool as your sparkly-purple light flashes as you inhale chocolate-flavoured juice from your rhinestone-bewjeweled, pink e-cig tied to its matching rhinestone-bejeweled, butter-soft doeskin leather matching pink carrybag, five flavours hanging from the side in their fancy keyring-style mini-bottles? How do you tell someone something that looks and potentially tastes so cool... isn't cool?

If that someone in question is contemplating the vaping of nicotine-laced juice--and, whether part of their plan or not, to become addicted--my response would be to point out that addiction is a cage, and it's forever. I'm not sure about Rosa's theory that smokers are dopamine-deprived going in--it's possible--but I know from unenviable experience that their biochemistry is altered for the duration once they've entered.

And the frills, the baubles? I'd mention the human condition, our flair for lemonade from lemons; specifically, I'd point at Martha Stewart's jail accommodations and her interior decorations thereof. Even Martha would admit it wasn't Fine Living, nor was it cool.

 

[FireHorse]

If someone wants to do something bad enough, you can't really stop them. I do agree that e-cigs should be marketed as a nicotine replacement therapy. That's what it was designed for and that's what it should be used for.

I do see the concern about making them look cool with all the designs, bling, colored lights as being an attraction for people who are easily persuaded by the glam aspect of things. However, that's what Hollywood did with the cigarette too. They made it look attractive because attractive stars were smoking so it was the "cool" thing to do. Those of us who got hooked on cigarettes can honestly say it's anything but cool to smoke and it's really not that cool to vape, even though it is safer.

Look at all the campaign ads that are against smoking. Are they working? Nope! Not in the least bit! Will campaign ads against vaping work? Nope! Not in the least bit! The best we can do is educate those who have never smoked or vaped about the possible problems associated with such things and hope they make the right choice to not start such horrible habits.

Who knows what vaping is actually doing to our bodies? Nobody knows for certain at this time. Did anyone know just how bad smoking was for the body when it became popular? Nope! And look at how many people have destroyed their bodies because it was a cool thing to do.

Addictive behavior really is what needs to be researched. Ways of curbing addictive behavior needs to be researched. Finding a cure for addictive behaviors is the only way to stop people from self destruction and even then, it's not going to be 100% effective because not everyone wants to stop their addictions. The best we can do is help make addictions safer for those who choose the habits and for now, that's what e-cigs really are about.

 

[tweazee]

Where's the gosh-darned moderator?! This person is such a troll! Can't we kick this nogoodnick off?

umm -- did you ask them how old their kid is? may be the kid is an adult?

 

[tweazee]

look at those doing the real mary-janes, and now trying to legalize it.

IMO -- We all have our opinions and we like to share them, but should we force feed it to others?

Everyone has the FREEDOM to choose what they want to do to them selves.

 

[Rosa]

umm -- did you ask them how old their kid is? may be the kid is an adult?

No, but I keep seeing their ridiculous posts popping up all over these threads. Sometimes just nonsense, sometimes saying something hurtful or mean spirited. I doubt they even know what an e-cig is.

 

[Automaton]

I actually think vaping looks pretty geeky. I've never felt cool vaping, even with my be-dazzled batteries.

But to me, it's about getting nicotine, and satisfying my compulsive addiction. All the other stuff? All the different models and atomizers and juices, all the cosmetic decoration, all that stuff?

That's just stuff I do to keep my mind engaged with vaping so I don't get bored and go back to cigarettes.

Have you seen my videos, per chance? I've been vaping for 3 months, and my voice is still shot to hell. I am thoroughly convinced the reason it hasn't fully recovered it because I am still breathing stuff into my lungs that shouldn't be there.

I feel much better than I did when I was smoking, but as good as I did before I ever smoked? Not even close. And I should. I'm young enough that I should. I'm 21 and I'm a contralto now, thanks to what I've already done to my throat and lungs. Vaping has probably prevented me from fully healing as well as I could have if I had quit through some other means.

Problem is, I haven't been able to quit through any other means. Which is why I vape.

Like I said before, "better than smoking" does not mean "safe." Vaping is better than smoking. Safe? No.

I didn't just say "don't do it." I gave you good reasons why you may want to reconsider. I didn't order you to do, or not do, anything. I gave you reasons for my thoughts. And I also told you that I am not going to help you do this. I'm still not.

Listen, dude. If you're such an adult, then you don't need to write so much to justify yourself to us. Just carry on with what you're doing, if you really don't care.

If someone is naive enough to want to do something harmful because of all the pretty shiny stuff, fine. But please, don't make excuses for yourself. If you're going to do it, just own it.

And please don't get annoyed with us for being worried that you're potentially picking up a stupid habit that could hurt you. That's just what decent, caring people do.

 

[uba egar320]

Don't waste your time on these trolls.

 

[tweazee]

No, but I keep seeing their ridiculous posts popping up all over these threads. Sometimes just nonsense, sometimes saying something hurtful or mean spirited. I doubt they even know what an e-cig is.

Yeah just saw one of their comments on the tread about cat avitars. Not very political on that one.

 

[xg4bx]

In a rational world you wouldn't need to explain to anyone what you do with your body. A lot of vapers are very concerned with losing the legal battle over e-cigs. So they allow their own selfish motives to dictate their thought process. These are the ones that will cry "don't say that you will mess it up for me" They have a point given how possessive our government is over "property" that shouldn't be theirs to control in the first place. However, it is your body and that is what I would say if I were you. Beware though, you might find yourself in a larger debate, not that this would be a bad thing.

I completely agree. If the OP wants to vape let him knock himself out. It's on him, not me or anybody else.

 

[NJDev78]

So what do we (you, since I'm not really a smoker and don't feel right being the first with a thought on it) do about this?

I cannot imagine many adults pick up cigarettes, ecigs, or any habit for that matter for the reasons you have mentioned. Cool accessories and an enhanced identity? High school kids, sure. 40year old adults, not so much.

 

[Hideto]

Ok, there's a reason I made this thread seperate from my original one, because this thread was not meant as a way for me to whinge on about my feelings from the other thread. Please do not use this thread for my other one. I'm asking a legitimate question, raised by the compassionate members of this group who already spoke to me in my other thread. Let's stay on topic.

How do people here discourage non-smokers from trying vaping when there are so many videos and posts with reviews of cool-looking e-cig-type instruments and interesting-sounding flavoured juices? How do people make a non-smoker believe they don't want to start this, even if they think they can do it more safely by choosing no nicotine content in their juices, especially when many of the people telling non-smokers to give it up have reams and reams of information on how to enjoy the very thing people here are telling the non-smoker to swear off? (And because it looks like it needs to be said, I know you can't just one day "decide to stop". I've known enough smokers in my life who tried to quit and failed, tried and succeeded, didn't want to try, were forced to quit for medical reasons, etc. to know it's not that simple.) That is what I'm asking. Do you know there are people who will put on spandex suits and stuff themselves inside little metal tubes with rails so they can go shooting down ice-covered half-tunnels with frightening curves at break-neck speeds? And they've made this an olympic sport where you can win a big piece of real gold and be called a hero for doing this! (The luge, for anyone wondering.) How do you tell people not to try luging when it's so praised by those who are interested in it?

And again with the "If I dun like what's said, it must be a troooolllllll!" I'm just going to ignore any of those kinds of comments from now on. Come talk to me when you graduate elementary school, you guys who are doing this.

 

[Automaton]

Hideto,

First of all, vaping doesn't look cool unless you're already into it. Have you seen people with their GLV's and their box mods? I have. It looks like they're toting around a detonator for some sort of explosive.

My 20-something friends think I look geeky with that metal stick in my mouth. They don't understand my colored rubber bands or my stupid-looking LED or all the flavors I have that should never, ever be in vaporized form (CoffeeX, anyone?).

Vaping is just confusing and weird to most non-smokers. Hell, even to most smokers. I know how silly I look, walking around puffing on a brightly colored tube with a giant flashlight on the end of it.

It's not what "cool" 20-somethings do. They smoke a real cig, because that's "cool." To other 20-somethings, I look like the equivalent of those middle-aged techies riding around on Segway's.

Hideto, you are truly a minority. Most non-smokers don't get it, wouldn't go within 20 miles of it, and as NJDev78 points out, most 40-year-olds aren't concerned with "the cool new way to boost your image." C'mon.

All I need to do to make a non-smoker not want to try it, is let them take a puff. They instantly start hacking their brains out. What tastes good to me tastes like .... to them - because my tastebuds are shot.

Then they see how messy it can be when I'm refilling cartos, or dripping. They see that I have to wash my hands every time I want to pet my cat, for fear of killing her because the juice gets all over the place (it's not just the nicotine you have to look out for, PG can also hurt cats).

They see my box full of tissues and tweezers and syringes and they think I must be setting up a .... lab.

And in addition to all that, I look stupid. And the more I decorate my batteries, the stupider I look. I look like a neurotic, geeky junkie. And that's exactly what I am. Tell me how that's "cool."

The reasons why vaping would be unappealing to a non-smoker are endless.

What's much more confusing is why it's appealing to you. And I can only conclude that you are a rare individual who never let go of "image over reason."

 

[Hideto]

*working hard to keep this on topic* Now see, those are some very good reasons to help discourage non-smokers from trying this; it's messy and somewhat complicated, and the ingredients are not pet-safe. Thanks for pointing those things out. I'd not heard/realized that PG is not pet-safe since it's not discussed much.

I think it might not be a bad idea for forum members to come up with a majority-chosen list of reasons why non-smokers may not want to try this, and have said list stickied or posted as a Wiki article or something. There's got to be a less combative, less hostile (not specifically you, Ms. Nomad, but others were pretty heated) way to offer this main point, of not trying vaping if you were never a smoker, to people who might be considering it. It's never bad to become well-informed about a decision before deciding to do it anyway, and who knows? Maybe if the list is tight enough and true/honest enough, it may actually discourage a non-smoker who was ignorant of all this entails, from trying it.

Editted to add: And I know you asked why I bother defending my reasoning for being here. I don't think I've seen a single ex/current-smoker try to talk about why they chose to smoke and then be railed on, called a troll, and be told to keep their reasons to themselves and just lurk about without saying anything if they want to be here so bad. I simply do not understand that hostility-side of responses I've gotten as a non-smoker. I've already addressed the kindly-offered compassion numerous times and said I want to continue in my interest, and people don't want to say, "Ok man. Don't say we didn't warn you." and let it go. That's all. I'm confused by the hostility of some. I think we've reached a circular argument in my other thread now, where I'm saying, "But I wanna!" and you and others are saying, "Well don't!" and all of us in this circular argument seem to want the last word. ;D Every time someone says, "Well don't!", I feel compelled to say, "But I wanna!" and everytime I say "But I wanna!", someone is compelled to tell me, "Well don't!"

 

[Automaton]

I admit to being passionate about the subject. I'm lucky to be as young as I am, but even in the relatively short period of time I smoked, I smoked HEAVILY, and I saw the damage it did to me. I see what it does to my father. And I see that I am still an addict, even now that I'm off cigarettes. All of those things are hard to deal with.

I have a type of cartomizer that, in order to refill, I need to basically take it apart, use 2 different syringes, and usually mop up half a ML of liquid from mishaps. It takes 5 minutes or so out of my life. Just to refill a cartomizer. Who would do that, if they weren't a junkie?

So yeah, I'm passionate about it. And maybe a bit vocal, and forceful. I'm Italian like that.

I believe, somewhere, there is some sort of notice that vaping isn't intended for non-smokers. I can't be fussed to look for it.

But it's kind of a double-edged sword, eh? It would also scare off smoker newbies from trying e-cigs.

The fact is, it's easy to start vaping, but more complicated to continue, in terms of effort. Especially if you're trying to save money and keep everything working until it's totally, totally dead, like I do.

But I think the aspect of being a compulsive/chemical addict should be enough for any non-smoker to turn tail and RUN. If it's not... I really don't get that.