David: Did you make this claim?

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Zelphie

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Apr 29, 2010
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I find it ironic that those do dont care dont just keep smoking but meh...

I didn't get that from his post. (and personally, I think that it's ironic that people here would create a scene about one additive being inhaled when the majority of us have been inhaling thousands of incinerated chemicals and additives multiple times a day without starting a ruckus! If someone were really concerned about their lungs, they wouldn't be smoking in the first place!:facepalm:)
 

TexasT

Resting In Peace
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Jul 7, 2010
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I find it ironic that those do dont care dont just keep smoking but meh...

Your sentence here is difficult to understand ... but anyhow, the chemical you love to hate is in beer, milk, buttermilk, butter, even mosquito repellent. It is present in many California chardonnays, sour cream, pasteurized cream, popcorn and food flavorings that are in many of the snacks you buy.

Its in baked good and baking products and cosmetics.

Diacetyl naturally occurs in butter, milk products, yogurt, grains, meat, wines, beer, oils of pine, oil of angelica, oils of lavender and other flowers, many flowers, raspberries, strawberries, citrus, ligonberry, guava, cabbage, peas, tomato, vinegar, cheeses, chicken, beef, mutton, pork, cognac, whiskies, tea, and coffee. Diacetyl is used in manufacturing as a flavoring in alcoholic beverages, baked goods, cheese, chewing gum, fats and oils, frozen dairy products, gelatins and puddings, gravies, hard candy, soft candy, imitation dairy, meat products, milk products, nonalcoholic beverages, and snack foods.

Have you given all these up as well?

This is an old, boring subject usually raised by people who don't even know much about what they are talking about.
 
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5cardstud

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Your sentence here is difficult to understand ... but anyhow, the chemical you love to hate is in beer, milk, buttermilk, butter, even mosquito repellent. It is present in many California chardonnays, sour cream, pasteurized cream, popcorn and food flavorings that are in many of the snacks you buy.

Its in baked good and baking products and cosmetics.

Diacetyl naturally occurs in butter, milk products, yogurt, grains, meat, wines, beer, oils of pine, oil of angelica, oils of lavender and other flowers, many flowers, raspberries, strawberries, citrus, ligonberry, guava, cabbage, peas, tomato, vinegar, cheeses, chicken, beef, mutton, pork, cognac, whiskies, tea, and coffee. Diacetyl is used in manufacturing as a flavoring in alcoholic beverages, baked goods, cheese, chewing gum, fats and oils, frozen dairy products, gelatins and puddings, gravies, hard candy, soft candy, imitation dairy, meat products, milk products, nonalcoholic beverages, and snack foods.

Have you given all these up as well?

This is an old, boring subject usually raised by people who don't even know much about what they are talking about.

Well I guess I'm done for because look T.

Diacetyl and acetoin are two compounds that give butter its characteristic taste. Because of this, manufacturers of margarines or similar oil-based products typically add diacetyl and acetoin (along with beta carotene for the yellow color) to make the final product butter-flavored, because it would otherwise be relatively tasteless.[2]
I've been eating margarine for 55 yrs.
 

Zelphie

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I dont heat and inhale all those, most of which I do not use anyway. Its funny you should say this is meantioned by people who dont know what their talking about becasue it seems the most basic thing to know the simple fact that is inhalation is different than ingestion. Very different systems at work here. Odd you didnt know that.
I suppose you inhale your meat and beer, weird.



Your sentence here is difficult to understand ... but anyhow, the chemical you love to hate is in beer, milk, buttermilk, butter, even mosquito repellent. It is present in many California chardonnays, sour cream, pasteurized cream, popcorn and food flavorings that are in many of the snacks you buy.

Its in baked good and baking products and cosmetics.

Diacetyl naturally occurs in butter, milk products, yogurt, grains, meat, wines, beer, oils of pine, oil of angelica, oils of lavender and other flowers, many flowers, raspberries, strawberries, citrus, ligonberry, guava, cabbage, peas, tomato, vinegar, cheeses, chicken, beef, mutton, pork, cognac, whiskies, tea, and coffee. Diacetyl is used in manufacturing as a flavoring in alcoholic beverages, baked goods, cheese, chewing gum, fats and oils, frozen dairy products, gelatins and puddings, gravies, hard candy, soft candy, imitation dairy, meat products, milk products, nonalcoholic beverages, and snack foods.

Have you given all these up as well?

This is an old, boring subject usually raised by people who don't even know much about what they are talking about.
 

Zelphie

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 29, 2010
1,483
554
S.E. Michigan
Your right, the body treats it equally. My bad.


Well I guess I'm done for because look T.

Diacetyl and acetoin are two compounds that give butter its characteristic taste. Because of this, manufacturers of margarines or similar oil-based products typically add diacetyl and acetoin (along with beta carotene for the yellow color) to make the final product butter-flavored, because it would otherwise be relatively tasteless.[2]
I've been eating margarine for 55 yrs.
 

tgcrna

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Zelphie, you're really going to start this up again? Why? I thought you guys were going to start your own sub-forum where you could all stroke each other about how much smarter you are than the rest of us. FSUSA is doing a good thing, being proactive and scientifically testing ingredients. Why do you feel the need to come to their forum and start an argument?
 

757girl

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Dec 22, 2009
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Here I am, all happy again. I applaud ANYONE for taking a step in the right direction to get our vaping put in a great light. And anyone who is saying "it's iffy", we have to start somewhere. Pam and David are doing what all suppliers should be doing, maybe some other suppliers would join in and help. I will be purchasing a 120 ml bottle when I get paid and will not use the discount code to try to help a little.
 

Zelphie

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Nay, I dont want to argue. I do think its a good thing to keep in mind because if theres going to be testing on that, and Im still unsure about the details, than it would be important to know how to interpret the data. If all chemicals treated the same way, then what would be the point in testing, one could simply check out the current MSDS and conclude that what ever is safe to eat is safe to vape. Dont get me wrong, testing is what is needed. As far as my argumentative tone, well that was in response to someone else basically calling me stupid. You had your implications as well, thats ok. Ill go stroke myself or whatever it is Im supposed to be doing
No issues here...go FSUSA!

Zelphie, you're really going to start this up again? Why? I thought you guys were going to start your own sub-forum where you could all stroke each other about how much smarter you are than the rest of us. FSUSA is doing a good thing, being proactive and scientifically testing ingredients. Why do you feel the need to come to their forum and start an argument?
 

Automaton

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Jun 23, 2010
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I don't know, Zelphie. Don't get me wrong anything - I have no desire to argue about this, and I like you as a person. But I've been keeping up with all these threads. I do recall you calling Markmcs flat-out delusional. In fact, that was your only refutation to his comment - a single sentence of personal insults. I was shocked your post didn't get deleted. This is not the first time you've been argumentative about this. And sometimes with no provocation.

It's also kind of perplexing that I've been in threads with you discussing Dekang, which has actual examples of quality control so poor that at one point a batch appears to have gone out using industrial grade PG. And there's no hate campaign towards Dekang and no personal insults lobbed at the people defending it from you. There are also *at least* 6 other US juice companies using FlavourArt. None of them, nearest we can tell, have addressed the issue much at all. So why are you only here?

All I want to know, is what this is to you. We're trying to do something proactive and indeed one better than what anyone else appears to be doing. And there are people, including yourself, who appear to be angry about it. Angry that we've taken everyone's suggestions and carried it one step further. And I don't get why.

EDIT: Found the post I reference in the first paragraph.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ty-regulations-my-ranting-19.html#post2159918
 
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mauisun

Unregistered Supplier
ECF Veteran
Pamela and i will keep doing what we keep doing. We will keep pouring money into science to come to terms with what this government is going to try to do to this industry sometime in the future. Everyone knows it is coming. Some just bury their heads, or buy tons of juice and atomizers with the end of the world strategy that if the government bans it and they can't get their stuff any more then they will have plenty of stock. But what happens when that stock finally runs out?
I don't want to be having to buy this stuff like drugs down on the street corners.
We want to sell a quality product. We want to be able to put scientific information out there in both scientific and laymen's terms for all to know and understand. And we are paying a significant portion of the money we are making to do so.
Anyone who would saying anything other then the highest kudos to us as a company or as real people, would more then likely have an agenda of ill will towars us.
We are going to continue forward. For our own peace of mind and the good of our customers. Surely anyone can see that is nothing but a good thing for us as a company, and the vaping community in general...
 

YoshiMum

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Apr 18, 2010
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Cape Fear, NC
I'd be willing to contribute/donate $ to help with this endeavor. I'm a nurse, and I know that there are countless medicines that are metabolized by inhalation, or absorbed by the mucosa, or via skin absorption etc, etc. I welcome and can not express my gratitude for these testing efforts. All I can say is... how can I help? I lack the science & the savy but would gladly support in ways within my ability. A small donation from all supportive vapers could raise this effort properly.
I applaud & thank y'all.
 

Zelphie

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Apr 29, 2010
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554
S.E. Michigan
I dont have a problem with FA, its rather good flavoring IMO. Im only here, because its only here that its so vocal. Theres something strange about the way FS seemed to not care about safety issues when asked if they use certain chemicals. But to a random person not knowing whats going on within the company it seems rather abrupt for them to now say they do in a more dramatic fashion then Ive seem from anyone. Im concerned because it seems like it could be a really good thing OR a really fake thing. I just dont get it to be honest. Its the inconsistencies that strike me as odd and I have to wonder what thats all about. What it is to me is that I would love to have some belief in the testing that’s going to take place because that is what is needed so badly, but its very hard to with all the recent drama. From the outside it looks questionable and I want it to be real.

As far as Dekang, I dont even know where to start there. I wish I could find out how they operate. I have not personally witnessed them doing anything good or bad and I havent heard any stories about quality control other than some people not wanting to buy Chinese juices based on a connection to things such as lead in paint used on toys and other things. If I knew of something I would surely be following up on that to and probably in a less than diplomatic fashion. Maybe you can help me there because I do use a lot of Chinese juice, not Dekang in particular but I like Joye and have come up empty.

The insults in place of diplomatic discussion are just because Im a mean and angery person in general who doesn’t know how to talk to people. Not a good answer but it’s the truth


I don't know, Zelphie. Don't get me wrong anything - I have no desire to argue about this, and I like you as a person. But I've been keeping up with all these threads. I do recall you calling Markmcs flat-out delusional. In fact, that was your only refutation to his comment - a single sentence of personal insults. I was shocked your post didn't get deleted. This is not the first time you've been argumentative about this. And sometimes with no provocation.

It's also kind of perplexing that I've been in threads with you discussing Dekang, which has actual examples of quality control so poor that at one point a batch appears to have gone out using industrial grade PG. And there's no hate campaign towards Dekang and no personal insults lobbed at the people defending it from you. There are also *at least* 6 other US juice companies using FlavourArt. None of them, nearest we can tell, have addressed the issue much at all. So why are you only here?

All I want to know, is what this is to you. We're trying to do something proactive and indeed one better than what anyone else appears to be doing. And there are people, including yourself, who appear to be angry about it. Angry that we've taken everyone's suggestions and carried it one step further. And I don't get why.

EDIT: Found the post I reference in the first paragraph.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ty-regulations-my-ranting-19.html#post2159918
 

bubba2u

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Oct 28, 2010
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wow i appreciate your honesty. most people keep their 'face' on, like the Billy Joel song 'stranger'. good tune. i have to ask why are you so angry? life is really to short not to make the best of it and make yourself content. sounds easy as i am one who can see the bad side of anything. but i have learned to find what makes me happy in life and keep at it.
 

Latakia

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Jul 16, 2010
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Zelphie I applaud your honesty if not your cynicism. Whatta ya say we just all calm down and see how David's ideas play out?


I dont have a problem with FA, its rather good flavoring IMO. Im only here, because its only here that its so vocal. Theres something strange about the way FS seemed to not care about safety issues when asked if they use certain chemicals. But to a random person not knowing whats going on within the company it seems rather abrupt for them to now say they do in a more dramatic fashion then Ive seem from anyone. Im concerned because it seems like it could be a really good thing OR a really fake thing. I just dont get it to be honest. Its the inconsistencies that strike me as odd and I have to wonder what thats all about. What it is to me is that I would love to have some belief in the testing that’s going to take place because that is what is needed so badly, but its very hard to with all the recent drama. From the outside it looks questionable and I want it to be real.

As far as Dekang, I dont even know where to start there. I wish I could find out how they operate. I have not personally witnessed them doing anything good or bad and I havent heard any stories about quality control other than some people not wanting to buy Chinese juices based on a connection to things such as lead in paint used on toys and other things. If I knew of something I would surely be following up on that to and probably in a less than diplomatic fashion. Maybe you can help me there because I do use a lot of Chinese juice, not Dekang in particular but I like Joye and have come up empty.

The insults in place of diplomatic discussion are just because Im a mean and angery person in general who doesn’t know how to talk to people. Not a good answer but it’s the truth
 
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