Diketones will destroy vaping before they destroys your lungs

[VNeil]

Pretty sure a lung biopsy is the only accurate test for popcorn lung...

You mean all those alleged hundreds of popcorn workers that supposedly had even very mild cases of BO had lung biopsies? I don't think so...

 

[Mazinny]

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Nice, thanks guys, good to know... The potential chemicals found in these e-liquids and e-jucies are also found in regular cigarettes too right? Higher amounts? Lower? Unknown?

I believe on average each cigarette has 285 ug of diacetyl and43 ug of AP. You can multiply by the number of cigarettes you used to smoke and compare with the amounts in a 1ml of liquid multiplied by the number of mls you vape per day.

 

[ThePulver]

From a report on that poor lady, who you seem to disregard because it was "just one" coffee factory:

“Especially of note is the short employment tenure of affected workers and their apparent rapid decline in lung function. Although these patients were symptomatic within <18 months of work, their illness initially was unrecognized, leading to a diagnostic delay of 8–14 months. This is consistent with the natural history of obliterative bronchiolitis, which differs significantly from much chronic obstructive lung disease, where decline is slow and risk factors more apparent.”

Damage from diketones appears to be a silent phenomenon, and then once you start to finally notice the symptoms, its far too late. People claim that no vapers have been harmed. If I were as unreasonable as them, I'd ask them for "proof" of that, just as they demand absolute proof from me that diketones are dangerous while vaping. There is ample proof that diketones are dangerous, period. Let people sub ohm diketones for a few more years. Maybe they will get their proof.

Dude you can't just put quotes around something without quoting where it's from. That's not how quotes work.

 

[stevegmu]

You mean all those alleged hundreds of popcorn workers that supposedly had even very mild cases of BO had lung biopsies? I don't think so...

There's no such thing as mild popcorn lung. It kills lung tissue until the patient gets a transplant or dies...

 

[Moonbogg]

Please post links to the evidence you claim, other than coffee and popcorn workers in those very different industrial environments. In particular, post evidence that "modern vaping" exceeds the exposures from cigarette smoke. You've been repeatedly asked to post links supporting your claims, and you have failed to do so. otherwise, you are making stuff up as you go along here.

Do your own leg work. I won't let you toy me around and make me run around looking for links that, if you cared, you could find yourself. You basically said, "post evidence of diketone damage, but don't post the ones where diketone damage actually occurred". Hmm, alright then?

 

[stevegmu]

I believe on average each cigarette has 285 ug of diacetyl and43 ug of AP. You can multiply by the number of cigarettes you used to smoke and compare with the amounts in a 1ml of liquid multiplied by the number of mls you vape per day.

Is vapor smoke? I thought it is an aerosol. Things react different in different forms. Could be less harmful, could be more...

 

[Mazinny]

Is vapor smoke? I thought it is an aerosol. Things react different in different forms. Could be less harmful, could be more...

Those are the numbers in cigarette smoke i believe.

I have seen this toxicology report that suggests vapor aerosol travels deeper into the lungs compared to cigarette smoke however :

DA_PD_monograph.pdf - Google Drive

 

[ThePulver]

Dude you can't just put quotes around something without quoting where it's from. That's not how quotes work.

Added the rest of the quote from the CDC article you misquoted. Omission of information is exactly what you are complaining about however you did the same thing.

"The findings in this report are subject to at least three limitations. First, the exposure of the two patients was not quantified; data on exposure of workers at the facility currently are being collected as part of the CDC health hazard evaluation. Second, diacetyl is produced by many foods, including coffee during the roasting process (7,8).Volatile organic compounds, including diacetyl, can be released during grinding (9).The relative contribution of diacetyl from flavorings and roasting or grinding to these two cases is unknown. Finally, production practices vary throughout the industry; therefore, it is possible this facility is not representative of other coffee-processing facilities."

Obliterative Bronchiolitis in Workers in a Coffee-Processing Facility — Texas, 2008–2012

^ That's how you quote something

 

[Pinggolfer]

Life is all about choices. I choose risk reduction, which is why I don't smoke, except for a few in Prague, don't drink, except in Prague, don't eat candy, cake or sugar, except when in Prague, don't vape questionable e-liquids by shady vendors who lie about what is in them, don't drink soda, don't eat fast food or much processed foods

Then don't breath the air. Or that doesn't count?
Radio Prague - Tackling the Czech Republic's poor air quality

 

[motabrownie]

Let me start out by saying I don't care what people vape. It doesn't matter to me if you want to vape juice with high contents of diketones or not. If you do, I certainly don't think you're wrong for doing so. To each their own as far as I'm concerned. I'm not here to declare one way or the other that diketones are bad or not bad. Fact is, we just don't know yet. With that being said, I used to vape a ton of Nicoticket. Strawnilla, Frenilla, The Virus were all in heavy rotation and it was basically all I vaped. My wife vaped a ton of ACB. Those juices tested really high for diketones. At first I really didn't care about diketones, but once the Nicoticket test results were released, my wife freaked the eff out. We started ordering from vendors she found who had test results posted that have little to no diketones. Maybe its placebo, but we both feel, I guess you could say, healthier. My lungs feel cleaner, I feel like I can breathe a little better. I used to get an irritated throat after vaping 4-5ml of Strawnilla that I dont get anymore when I vape the same amount of a juice with lower diketones. Im not saying diketones are gonna immediately kill us or anything but as far as I'm concerned, its better to be safe than sorry.
So here's what I want to know. Has anyone else switched from juice with high levels of diketones to juice with little to no levels of diketones and if so, do you notice a difference in how you feel? Or is it just me? Is my mind playing tricks on me? Cuz thats happened a few times in the past, sometimes I see things if I stare at the ceiling for too long.

 

[ThePulver]

Lol I accidentally quoted myself like a dumbass

 

[VNeil]

Do your own leg work. I won't let you toy me around and make me run around looking for links that, if you cared, you could find yourself. You basically said, "post evidence of diketone damage, but don't post the ones where diketone damage actually occurred". Hmm, alright then?

You have made these assertions, not me. Your unwillingness to post links backing up your assertions is proof you are making stuff up as you go along. It is not my job to vet your assertions. Only call BS when I see it. And claims without evidence are Propaganda BS in this avocation.

And I specifically challenged this assertion, at the top of your quoted post, not some assertion about actual lung damage...

"Actually, it is very true. Today, people are exposed to more diketones than the average smoker could possibly consume with high AP content juice and high volume vaping."

You are putting out the typical straw man arguments when you have no facts to back up your assertions.

 

[motabrownie]

^ Fixed that for you...

Also 100% of people who died breathed air prior so be super careful not to breath air...

Death is caused by swallowing small amounts of saliva over a long period of time.

- George Carlin

 

[stevegmu]

I also see lots and lots of skinny people in fast food restaurants. Thus proving that @stevegmu makes stuff up as he goes along, salting these threads with as many fabricated red herrings as he can.

And personally, considering I eat at McD's maybe once a month, but enjoy it when I do, for old times sake, really miss the 70s fries made in real animal fat. I think they should offer it both ways. If I ate there multiple times a week I would eat the modern PC version.

Really?
Does fast food cause obesity? In short... yes. While it is certainly not the only cause, in conjunction with other factors, fast food restaurants are a big part of the obesity problem. - See more at: Does Fast Food Cause Obesity?

 

[ckquatt]

don't vape questionable e-liquids by shady vendors who lie about what is in them

Except when in Prague... [emoji19]


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[VNeil]

There's no such thing as mild popcorn lung. It kills lung tissue until the patient gets a transplant or dies...

Are you saying that the popcorn workers on the job for only a year all DIED of BO?

 

[stevegmu]

Except when in Prague... [emoji19]


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No, I never vape e-liquids from shady vendors...

 

[stevegmu]

Are you saying that the popcorn workers on the job for only a year all DIED of BO?

Did they? I didn't say that. It really seems there is a disconnect between what I write and what some believe I wrote...

 

[ckquatt]

No, I never vape e-liquids from shady vendors...

Well being you do everything else "...only in Prague". I just assumed you left it out on accident...

"sighs"


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[Moonbogg]

Let me start out by saying I don't care what people vape. It doesn't matter to me if you want to vape juice with high contents of diketones or not. If you do, I certainly don't think you're wrong for doing so. To each their own as far as I'm concerned. I'm not here to declare one way or the other that diketones are bad or not bad. Fact is, we just don't know yet. With that being said, I used to vape a ton of Nicoticket. Strawnilla, Frenilla, The Virus were all in heavy rotation and it was basically all I vaped. My wife vaped a ton of ACB. Those juices tested really high for diketones. At first I really didn't care about diketones, but once the Nicoticket test results were released, my wife freaked the eff out. We started ordering from vendors she found who had test results posted that have little to no diketones. Maybe its placebo, but we both feel, I guess you could say, healthier. My lungs feel cleaner, I feel like I can breathe a little better. I used to get an irritated throat after vaping 4-5ml of Strawnilla that I dont get anymore when I vape the same amount of a juice with lower diketones. Im not saying diketones are gonna immediately kill us or anything but as far as I'm concerned, its better to be safe than sorry.
So here's what I want to know. Has anyone else switched from juice with high levels of diketones to juice with little to no levels of diketones and if so, do you notice a difference in how you feel? Or is it just me? Is my mind playing tricks on me? Cuz thats happened a few times in the past, sometimes I see things if I stare at the ceiling for too long.

Sometimes a high diketone juice will generate a cough reflex for me. Maybe coincidence, I don't know. But I noticed it.