Diketones will destroy vaping before they destroys your lungs
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Sasha, I apologize right off the bat here. I am kind of busting into this thread without knowing what the whole content is. However, what I do know is the fact that you are not smoking THREE packs of Marlboro Reds per day. My, that was quite a habit. So, what I am saying here, is that whatever you are doing now, I am quite certain is much better compared to the latter
Then why have they not given it the Ban hammer?.....only the Tax hammer
Thanks for this post. It is people like you who, for whatever reason, are having your lungs looked at closely as you vape your diketones, that will provide some actual evidence, even if anecdotal, one way or the other. Rather than the "there must be something wrong with {this, whatever} attitude.Do you scrutinize every single package at the grocery store before putting it in your cart and then express the same moral outrage about preservatives, trans fat, sodium, sugar etc? I am pretty sure that the stuff in the Twinkie I ate or what is in my tap water is going to kill me long before what is in my juice does. Yes it is ok to be concerned, but until there is definitive and conclusive testing and proof that these substances are harmful to our lungs, making a mountain out of a molehill right now isn't going to get us anywhere except more panic.
I have vaped for the last 5 years and vaped/sub ohm'd nothing but custards for the last 3 years, and have had pretty much every breathing test available short of a large lung biopsy, and several CT's, VQ and MRI's done on my lungs in the last 8 months due to a non vaping related medical issue. Every single test/scan has shown that I have zero damage to my lungs from vaping custards, or vaping period. The only thing my Pulmonologist said was that my lungs looked great and have healed nicely for having quit smoking 5 years ago. It is going to be a while until all the testing and reports are in. Until then, I personally see no reason to change course.
Cheers.
They won't generate nearly as much revenue taxing e-cigs like they do real cigs. They could ban e-cigs and keep people smoking and keep raking in the cash. No one wants e-cigs to make it in this world besides vapers. Everyone else wants them to go away and die in a corner. Very few people advocate for vaping who aren't vapers. Diketones are a threat to our lungs and to vaping in general.
@ steve above...yeah, I think a lung biopsy is needed as well. Most vapers are ex smokers, so if they go to the doctor with breathing or lung capacity issues, the doctor will almost certainly suspect their previous smoking habit as the culprit. I would expect many misdiagnosis of diketone damage from vaping before a clear enough pattern has been established to make the determination. By that time, many thousands are effected or on their way to being hurt.
The FDA is checking my lungs every week for the past 2 years. Nothing to report so far.
That is absolutely not true. Untold hundreds of millions, maybe billions, of smokers, have been exposed to DAP in their cigs. At levels "typical" of eCig exposure or far greater than, depending on what you read. The ANTZ response is essentially that it *could be* a silent epidemic of sorts. Where millions of smokers have died of lung cancer or COPD or some other smoking related ailment but no one has ever been autopsied, for any reason, to see if their lungs had signs of BO. And this, I think, is the main argument that there is something wrong with the DAP "chain of evidence". Out of all those smoking related deaths, many from COPD, someone, somewhere surely was autopsied by some college med student, and that student would have found something possibly worthy of a Nobel Prize: a new deadly way that smoking kills. But somehow those millions of deaths slipped through the cracks?
And pigs will fly, and get ingested into commercial airliner engines. Killing thousands. Some day. Soon. Don't ever fly, it could be hazardous to your health.
Smoke is different than 'vapor', just like eating something is different than inhaling it; what may not be so harmful if smoked may be in 'vapor' form...
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And as I said, @stevegmu, pigs may fly and take down commercial airliners. Your cell phone may give you brain cancer, and if you live anywhere near high power electrical towers that may kill you too. Not to mention the wireless transmitters in your house or the coffee shop you spend the afternoon at, or last year's GMO crop, which can, by definition never pass "long term studies" because it did not exist the year before, may kill you.
If people want diketone free juice, there are vendors that will supply it. People that want to vape the most flavorful juice, regardless of DAP content, are free to do so. That is the way it *should* be. If we were left to make life choices as we. the people, should be.
Actually, it is very true. Today, people are exposed to more diketones than the average smoker could possibly consume with high AP content juice and high volume vaping. This is a new kind of vaping that hasn't been around very long and exposes people to more vapor than ever before. People seem to think more is better, bigger is better, and with sport vaping drawing in young people, those are the people who will lose the hardest out of all of us.
Diketones are in factory settings, cigarettes and consumer products, all of which have led to similar forms of lung damage in people sufficiently exposed to those things and environments. Diketones are also in e-juice. How long before vaping can be added to the above list of causes for damaging diketone exposure? If you don't see a link between diketones and lung damage, its because you don't want to see it.
Also, people working in coffee plants where they roast the coffee beans, they came down with lung damage issues as well. Noone knew why until they discovered that the heating of the beans released diacetyl. It seems anywhere diketones are encountered, lung damage soon follows.
Life is all about choices. I choose risk reduction, which is why I don't smoke, except for a few in Prague, don't drink, except in Prague, don't eat candy, cake or sugar, except when in Prague, don't vape questionable e-liquids by shady vendors who lie about what is in them, don't drink soda, don't eat fast food or much processed foods. If anyone else doesn't care about their body or health, I don't care. It doesn't affect me. They can be 600 lbs and not be able to take a step without having a coughing fit for all I care. I hope people do vape diacetyl rich e-liquids. We need test subjects; preferrably non smoker vapers who sub ohm.
Having a choice, though, requires vendors do not lie about their ingredients or falsify results...
You do know that there will never be any long term studies of specific flavorings or compounds. Where are you going to find a population of vapers that vaped for "the long term", however you define that, vaping only a single flavor? And that is basically what you would have to do. And find those populations for every flavor on the market (including those that came and went during those 10 or however many years???)
The whole argument, unfortunately. comes down to proving a negative, proving the impossible.
What may happen some day, circa 10 years from now, is that studies will determine (actually at best suggest) if there are any significant risks in vaping. By studying lung xrays, MRIs and lung capacity over time. People have trouble with the idea of unknown risk when it is combined with intense propaganda. We accept those same levels of unknown risk in other aspects of our lives, and contrary to what is often suggested we can choose to eliminate or minimize some, but not all of those multitudes of possible unknown risk.
And, the only conclusive evidence will be in the population of never smoking vapers. So we should welcome them into our ranks, in the greatest number possible, because they are our best lab rats (not perfect but best or better than LT smokers).
Are you aware of any vendor other than Cyclops that has disputed Vaporshark testing ? I would be very curious to find out.
Also interesting that none of the 42 vendors tested in the original round of VS testing have removed their products from VS store. In fact 18 additional vendors are selling their product through VS since then.
^ Fixed that for you...
Also 100% of people who died breathed air prior so be super careful not to breath air...
Please post links to the evidence you claim, other than coffee and popcorn workers in those very different industrial environments. In particular, post evidence that "modern vaping" exceeds the exposures from cigarette smoke. You've been repeatedly asked to post links supporting your claims, and you have failed to do so. otherwise, you are making stuff up as you go along here.
I also see lots and lots of skinny people in fast food restaurants. Thus proving that @stevegmu makes stuff up as he goes along, salting these threads with as many fabricated red herrings as he can.
And personally, considering I eat at McD's maybe once a month, but enjoy it when I do, for old times sake, really miss the 70s fries made in real animal fat. I think they should offer it both ways. If I ate there multiple times a week I would eat the modern PC version.
From a report on that poor lady, who you seem to disregard because it was "just one" coffee factory:
“Especially of note is the short employment tenure of affected workers and their apparent rapid decline in lung function. Although these patients were symptomatic within <18 months of work, their illness initially was unrecognized, leading to a diagnostic delay of 8–14 months. This is consistent with the natural history of obliterative bronchiolitis, which differs significantly from much chronic obstructive lung disease, where decline is slow and risk factors more apparent.”
Damage from diketones appears to be a silent phenomenon, and then once you start to finally notice the symptoms, its far too late. People claim that no vapers have been harmed. If I were as unreasonable as them, I'd ask them for "proof" of that, just as they demand absolute proof from me that diketones are dangerous while vaping. There is ample proof that diketones are dangerous, period. Let people sub ohm diketones for a few more years. Maybe they will get their proof.
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