My NET Experiments -- Microwave Heat Extraction

[billherbst]

As long as I was putting up one maceration for cold-process, I made a second one to keep it company on the kitchen windowsill. In addition to Hearth & Home House of Lords, I also prepped Milan Lucky 7, which is an aromatic pipe blend---fire-cured Cavendish, Black Cav, and Green River Burleys, with wood, spice, and subtle vanilla flavors.

 

[papabogart]

As long as I was putting up one maceration for cold-process, I made a second one to keep it company on the kitchen windowsill. In addition to Hearth & Home House of Lords, I also prepped Milan Lucky 7, which is an aromatic pipe blend---fire-cured Cavendish, Black Cav, and Green River Burleys, with wood, spice, and subtle vanilla flavors.

Sound like nice tobaccos.
On the window sill? You going for a sun-tea brewing effect?

Edit: You doing some of your own blending of tobaccos?

 

[billherbst]

Sound like nice tobaccos.
On the window sill? You going for a sun-tea brewing effect?

Yes, Papa. Sun-tea. Cold-processed but Sun-assisted. Keep in mind, though, that I'm on the Oregon coast. Not all that much Sun here, especially in the winter. On the other hand, the PG in both macerations is turning quite dark after only two days.

You doing some of your own blending of tobaccos?

No, I don't know the first thing about blending tobaccos. All my pipe tobaccos are one-ounce samplers of blends available online from Milan Tobacconists or Pipes&Cigars.

 

[Chinook]

I keep my cold macerations in a dark drawer. The color change is very slow with ASO. I wonder if these pipe tobaccos are readily releasing their "goodies" vs cigarette tobacco like ASO. And maybe the effect of light/sun too.

Your second tobacco blend sounds very good. The first sounded good too until I read heavy in Latakia

I vaped my 62% NET extract ASO juice today. It's definitely not subtle. It's satisfying. And it's not like fresh tobacco like I imagined nor like lit cigarette -- something in between so far. One of the main notes is "flinty". Kind of like hitting stones together and the smell after the sparks coming between the stones. I'd say it has strong earthy tones, some hay and a touch of ash tray.

I'll steep it more and start mixing it with my 25% juice. I enjoyed the 25% juice too but it didn't have enough oomph after 10 day steep. I'm thinking 40-50% might be optimal. But I guess I should let them steep 3 weeks before I decide...

 

[billherbst]

I keep my cold macerations in a dark drawer. The color change is very slow with ASO. I wonder if these pipe tobaccos are readily releasing their "goodies" vs cigarette tobacco like ASO. And maybe the effect of light/sun too.

I'm surprised by the rapid change in liquid color. My first maceration (Skydancer Native American all-natural cigarettes) started out as a no-heat extraction that I kept in a closed kitchen cupboard. The 75PG/25VG base liquid changed color hardly at all after two weeks, which is why I gave up on the cold steep. Although my pipe tobacco samples are in sealed ziploc bags, they are very fresh and moist. The three cigarette tobaccos I've extracted were all significantly drier. I'm thinking that may have something to do with the rapid color change. The liquids in my new and current windowsill macerations are already the color of strong tea after a mere two days. After about two weeks, I may syringe out a little bit of the extract liquid and mix up 3ml bottles of juice at 20% to test the strength and flavor of these cold-process extracts.

I vaped my 62% NET extract ASO juice today. It's definitely not subtle. It's satisfying. And it's not like fresh tobacco like I imagined nor like lit cigarette -- something in between so far. One of the main notes is "flinty". Kind of like hitting stones together and the smell after the sparks coming between the stones. I'd say it has strong earthy tones, some hay and a touch of ash tray.

Your description makes me wonder if your American Spirit Organic extract tastes similar to mine. I get the "earthiness," but there's nothing remotely "flinty" about my ASO. You used the term "satisfying." I'd say that my ASO is "delicious." In balance, I think I like my Nat Sherman MCD and American Spirit Organic cigarette tobacco NETs somewhat more than my eight pipe tobacco blend NETs. Not that the pipe tobacco extracts aren't good---they are quite good---but my particular palate appreciates the greater "centeredness" of the specialty cigarette flavors. They're both right down the middle of Tobacco Road.

With the exception of my Peter Stokkebye Turkish Blend---which I ordered because the user reviews on PipeReviews.com defined it primarily as a cigarette rolling tobacco---all the other pipe blend tobaccos I've extracted have that characteristic "pipe" flavor. They differ mainly by type---aromatic, non-aromatic, and English. The aromatic blends lean toward the dessert end of the tobacco spectrum because of the casings and additional flavorings, the non-aromatics are more "pure" pipe tobaccos, and the English blends all contain Latakia in varying percentages from moderate to heavy.

 

[Chinook]

I'm surprised by the rapid change in liquid color. My first maceration (Skydancer Native American all-natural cigarettes) started out as a no-heat extraction that I kept in a closed kitchen cupboard. The 75PG/25VG base liquid changed color hardly at all after two weeks, which is why I gave up on the cold steep. Although my pipe tobacco samples are in sealed ziploc bags, they are very fresh and moist. The three cigarette tobaccos I've extracted were all significantly drier. I'm thinking that may have something to do with the rapid color change. The liquids in my new and current windowsill macerations are already the color of strong tea after a mere two days. After about two weeks, I may syringe out a little bit of the extract liquid and mix up 3ml bottles of juice at 20% to test the strength and flavor of these cold-process extracts.

I'm not sure why the moisture would have such an effect. Maybe the excess water in the tobacco expands the plant cells and makes it more readily extractable in PG. In general, I read people commenting about their pipe extracts and having success even with short microwave heating sessions. I had a feeling that these pipe tobaccos could be flavored quite heavily and those non-tobacco essences readily pass to PG/VG in short time. But I don't think yours (the ones brewing at the window) are not like that. At least, one of them is pure tobacco right?

Your description makes me wonder if your American Spirit Organic extract tastes similar to mine. I get the "earthiness," but there's nothing remotely "flinty" about my ASO. You used the term "satisfying." I'd say that my ASO is "delicious." In balance, I think I like my Nat Sherman MCD and American Spirit Organic cigarette tobacco NETs somewhat more than my eight pipe tobacco blend NETs. Not that the pipe tobacco extracts aren't good---they are quite good---but my particular palate appreciates the greater "centeredness" of the specialty cigarette flavors. They're both right down the middle of Tobacco Road.

With the exception of my Peter Stokkebye Turkish Blend---which I ordered because the user reviews on PipeReviews.com defined it primarily as a cigarette rolling tobacco---all the other pipe blend tobaccos I've extracted have that characteristic "pipe" flavor. They differ mainly by type---aromatic, non-aromatic, and English. The aromatic blends lean toward the dessert end of the tobacco spectrum because of the casings and additional flavorings, the non-aromatics are more "pure" pipe tobaccos, and the English blends all contain Latakia in varying percentages from moderate to heavy.

Maybe I'm describing it wrong as flinty. Because maybe that might also imply some sulfur-like component too which I don't get in mine. I'm surprised so far since I was expecting a more of a fresh tobacco essence with this cold extraction. Even after I vape this, it leaves me a taste somewhat reminiscent of an analog. Not that strong but it's there. Overall experience is closest I got to an analog since I mostly vape pipe like and a few cigar like juices. This is the 63% juice. The 25% juice is more like the of experience GeJ's Natural Perique in overall weight and layering (obviously not taste wise). I think 63% might be just too much But I think it makes it a very interesting analog simulation, complete with a slight ashtray mouth!

 

[Chinook]

I vaped about 1.5 mL of the cold extracted 63% juice and there was no visible gunking on the coils. Once I rinsed the coil under running water, it looked very clean. Most of my vendor NETs turn the coils pretty much black with gunk at this point.

I'll vape my heat extracted (similar to Bill's method) one soon. Let's see how the gunking will go with this one. I'm assuming, the coils will be blackened.

 

[smelly]

I'm sure you wont mind if I join the party Chinook. Tried my first NET tonight and vaping it right now thanks to your thread.

3 tbl spoons "Anniversary" blend pipe tobacco (some special a local pipe shop was having).
30 ml VG
VG and tobacco in a small bowl
microwave... stock settings?... I guess?
5 seconds, mix for 10 seconds - repeat 5 times.
after fifth microwave round mix and mash for 2 minutes.
5 seconds, mix for 10 seconds - repeat 5 times.
after fifth microwave round mix for 2 minutes. No mashing and begin pushing tobacco "away" from liquid.
pour into coffee filter over small glass.
squeeze (careful not to burst the filter) 3 times.
mix a batch of 100%VG 15mg nic, NET = 20%

I gotta say... this is pretty awesome. Probably all I will ever vape now.

I have 3 small boxes full of almost every super concentrate/gourmet concentrate flavor I thought I'd ever want or need. Too bad now I have to throw them all away. What a waste.

The vape is pretty mild relative to artificially flavored juice. This is what I like though. I've been getting so extremely tired of overpowering goofy tasting juices... yesterday I actually thought I might stop vaping because I think every juice kind of sucks ("major" brands and DIY). They all just taste so fake to me.

Will check in with how my coils do. Using a gennie ATM. Coils are waaaay too tight on this wick.... gonna be a pain in the neck when it comes time to dry burn so will probably just recoil. I usually associate very strong flavored dark juices with coil death and since this flavor is fairly mild I hope they wont be too bad... this stuff is daaaaark though.

Again - thanks for the inspiration!

EDIT - PS - I noticed you botched your first attempt at the stove top high heat overnight steep procedure. As did I.. burned up gooey mess... then I found this thread and tried this instead.

 

[Chinook]

Welcome smelly. You are welcome. I'm glad to see that this thread inspired you. I was inspired by others too.

When I initially tried a similar microwave method, I also got mild flavored extract. I used American Spirits Organic tobacco -- I think it's harder to extract flavors from a more straight tobacco like that vs pipe tobacco with these quicker methods. Many people seem to have success in extracting pipe tobaccos in the microwave.

I'm not sure how people had success with stove top high heat in VG, overnight steep procedure. Mine looked and smelled like it was over fried in oil

Have you tried any vendor NETs? Check out this massive thread:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...274904-natural-tobaccos-535.html#post11909860

There are some awesome vendor NETs out there. But coil performance is an issue with quite a few of them.

 

[smelly]

Ha, yes me too! I have a pot of fried tobacco oil "steeping" on my kitchen counter.

No vendor NETs yet. Just since yesterday my coils have gunked up more than normal. Bummer, I like clean juice.

I've noticed the flavor is strangely analog. I woke up this morning and immediately needed to brush my teeth. I always do of course but this morning it was priority number 1, above all else. I could taste that taste from the night before. This aspect of the flavor I am not sure I like.

 

[Chinook]

Have you filtered your extract? Your pipe blend might also have some added sugars in it if it is sweet. That'll gunk up the coils fast too.

If I vape my ASO juices late at night, I taste them in the morning too. Not as bad as cigarettes of course, but still some of that ashtray mouth. I was surprised too!

 

[twgbonehead]

Guys,

New to this, but I do have a tip.

Instead of a coffee filter, try a "cafe cup" (re-usable coffee holder for Keurig) for first filtration (google cafe cup, everybody seems to have them). Put the cafe cup over a (large) shot glass, pour in the brew, and use a medicine cup as a plunger to squeeze the grounds. Since the cafe cup is wire mesh, it doesn't suck up tons of the liquid like a paper filter would. My first attempt, but seems to work very well! Get a medicine cup that fits the k-cup pretty well, and go easy at first so it doesn't slosh over the sides. (My medicine cup has a small "rim" on the bottom which also helps to retain the tobacco and keep it from "jumping the fence").

 

[Chinook]

Thanks twgbonehead, for the idea. I started using a fine mesh strainer for the first pass, before syringe filtering.

One thing that came to my mind lately though that after the mesh straining, I did push the tobacco leaves through the syringe. I probably end up extracting lot of unneeded plant material. Next time, I won't put any tobacco into the syringe filter. Maybe I'll just leave the tobacco heap alone in the wire mesh and just gravity do its job for an hour or so.

 

[smelly]

I used coffee filters X 3 and gravity. Filter into glass, filter into new glass, filter into first glass (after rinsing). Yeah the tobacco was rather sweet I think. I need to try some others. Really disliking the analog taste that comes through. Might try this a couple more times with different baccy but there's gotta be a better way to get those good flavors out of there. Don't want to put too much time into a process when I could be investing that time elsewhere.

 

[Chinook]

Good luck smelly! Let us know how it goes. I'm also after pure taste of tobacco.

I'm also wondering how my VG, PG and nic juice taste like. I'm going to make a 2-4 mL juice just out of these three with no added extracts nor flavorings. I'm hoping that they'll taste neutral with no weird aftertaste. Maybe some spice due to nicotine...

 

[smelly]

Hey chinook,
you mean just straight PG, VG with and without nic? No NET no additional anything?

I've tried them. As long as you have good glycerin/glycol and nic base then yeah they taste pretty neutral. To me PG is a little chemically and VG is a little sweet. Nic adds a little chemically bite.

I have a bottle of 100mg nic in VG that I use to mix... Unfortunately I made a huge mistake and didn't pack it down into smaller quantities. I've been opening and closing and double dipping out of the same 500 ML room temperature bottle for months... it has resulted in degrading nicotine content and developing a terrible taste... What a waste...

I've got to read more about NETs... I'm really disliking mine now... taste has too much of that burnt analog thing going on. Can't stand it. blegh.

 

[Chinook]

smelly, that's what I meant for the "pure" taste test of the PG+VG+nic juice with no extracts in it. I'm thinking about mixing up a 10 mg/mL "juice" and vape it. I just want to see what my "background taste" is like. That'll be both coming from the PG+VG+nic juice and my equipment.

I hear you about your Nic juice! I thought about the scenario you mentioned and then I decided ordering a 48 mg nic juice in a 60 mL bottle. I think the higher the concentration of the nic juice more careful you have to be. Otherwise I think it needs be refrigrated and kept in a dark glass bottle.

Sorry to hear about your recent extract. It might have been hit with a high heat. Read Bill's posts about warm maceration method. That's worth a try. Try also a room temperature maceration, perhaps from 2 weeks to 4+ weeks. I need to steep my juices more but overall I'm OK with them. But I still think there's room for improvement

 

[smelly]

Yeh I think I'm gonna try both bill's method and a 4 week cold method with a cigarette tobacco before I give up.

I def learned my lesson on the nic. I remember reading (after the fact) its best keep the concentration at or below 50mg for us small time DIYers. So i believe u are right and its what im doing from now on you can bet on that! Keep at or below 50mg, keep in small batch size containers, dark glass, refrigerate/freeze.

You ever check out supercritical co2?

 

[Chinook]

Yeh I think I'm gonna try both bill's method and a 4 week cold method with a cigarette tobacco before I give up.

I def learned my lesson on the nic. I remember reading (after the fact) its best keep the concentration at or below 50mg for us small time DIYers. So i believe u are right and its what im doing from now on you can bet on that! Keep at or below 50mg, keep in small batch size containers, dark glass, refrigerate/freeze.

You ever check out supercritical co2?

You mean supercritical CO2 extraction? I was curious about what they have as commercial apparatus and they are very expensive and look complicated. Some of them run like $150k!. Not for me

 

[smelly]

Watched some YouTube video of a homemade kit that a guy sells. Never checked his website but it wasn't a high end looking set up. Got the job done though. Still over my head though