DIY Master Techniques - Flavor Add-on's (EM, VW, BW, MTS, ACV, ect)

[AttyPops]

I hear that salt raises the boiling point. But it can make it boil more vigorously when added to boiling water.

I always use distilled water in irons because I don't want the salt residue (which doesn't evaporate...much...some is carried along as we have demonstrated).

Still. I repeat. Water hydrates. Not salt. Although there's reasons for having the salt solution...keeping cell water level balances I'd guess.
Too much salt outside will dehydrate the cell (it shrinks as water is lost). Too little and it will bloat the cell. Which isn't usually a big deal, but can be. Your lungs are used to moisture in the air...minus salt. They can deal with some salt too. Probably saline too, since you seem to love it and it works for you. Sounds like the salt % ends up being lower than normal cell levels anyway. (guessing here)

Too much water in the juice and it doesn't vape well. No water can be harsher.

I use some water...but just water. I'm still trying to finish off that salt-experiment bottle of juice. I'll probably toss it rather than dilute it down. :/

I know people have used small amounts of water for years and it's been OK. This saline "trend" is new to me. Not necessarily bad, but new.

 

[~Sue~Feb2012]

I found the Neilman sinus rince does help the drying effect of vaping quite a bit. I've been vaping it for 2 days and it seems the hacking and caughing at bed time is completely gone. I find at the end of the evening my throat is not nearly as irritated and it does smooth out the vape a lot getting rid of any harch edge it may have. It does take a slight hit on flavor but 1 - 2% more flavor should compensate for that. To me it's so slight I don't think I would compensate for the loss myself.

Awesome danny, glad to hear your good results!

 

[~Sue~Feb2012]

Thanks Danny this leads me to believe that my 2% Saline Solution (Sodium Chloride)

I spoke with one of the chemical engineers I work with about whether or not salt can be tasted in vapor. Her response was inconclusive, meaning she doesn't have any hard data suggesting the salt can be 'perceived' in vapor but she 'believes' it is likely that we can.

I'm going with my personal experience and say yes we can.

My experiments are ending up at less than 1% ....and I believe I taste the salt (maybe because I'm looking for it?)... and the perceived moisture and enhanced flavors are because it might be causing a bit of salivation and enlightened tastebuds lol

 

[AttyPops]

Note...there's a lot more going on in our lungs and with PG/VG/Nic and flavorings added than just this saline topic. Lungs have mucus membranes and bronchial tubes, etc for dealing with stuff. And so too is it more complex for mouth linings and nose linings and such. And people have rightly pointed out saline is used in neti pots and nebulizers (that may not be using heating coils). So.....total disclaimers here...but I thought this was interesting because it's part of the hydration discussion. Consider it FYI for fun.


However, I still don't know how much salt actually makes it into the vapor. Taste buds are pretty sensitive for salt in most cases.

 

[we2rcool]

I hear that salt raises the boiling point. But it can make it boil more vigorously when added to boiling water.

I always use distilled water in irons because I don't want the salt residue (which doesn't evaporate...much...some is carried along as we have demonstrated).

Still. I repeat. Water hydrates. Not salt. Although there's reasons for having the salt solution...keeping cell balances I'd guess.
Too much salt will add salt to cells though. Too little and it will leach salt out. Which isn't usually a big deal, but can be. Your lungs are used to moisture in the air...minus salt. They can deal with some salt too. Probably saline too, since you seem to love it and it works for you. Sounds like the salt % ends up being lower than normal cell levels anyway. (guessing here)

Too much water in the juice and it doesn't vape well. No water can be harsher.

I use some water...but just water. I'm still trying to finish off that salt-experiment bottle of juice. I'll probably toss it rather than dilute it down. :/

I know people have used small amounts of water for years and it's been OK. This saline "trend" is new to me. Not necessarily bad, but new.

Add salt to any pan of water; it boils quicker. I should have said "raises the boiling point" instead of lowering - oopsy-sorry-bout that.

Of course, only water actually hydrates. Without salt, the body can't (simply put) 'hold onto water' - too much salt and we die. Put a few grains of salt on the tongue - instant wetter mouth.

PG & VG both "pull water to themselves". In the body this actually-ultimately DEhydrates. Wherever the PG/VG are, water is pulled to them...since they are on tissue - they suck water right out of the tissue to themselves. Because of this 'water pulling effect', VG & PG are commonly used in "skin moisturizers"...put them on dry skin, and the skin immediately becomes softer & more 'hydrated'. But it is known that the water is pulled from deeper in the skin (as well as from the air) - and continued use ultimately causes the skin/tissue to become even drier.

Yes, our lungs are used to the moisture in the air (as well as exhaling the moisture) - what they (and the rest of our body) is not used to is being coated in substances that pull water from the tissues. Hence, one of the first things we learn when switching to vaping from analogs is that we become dehydrated and all newbies are advised: hydrate! more water! hydrate! more water!

Mix a little saline solution into the vg/pg, and the dehydration/irritation from the dehydrating effect of the vg/pg is (at least temporarily) soothed...and the flavoring is enhanced, too! (so we can use less chemicals).

Fwiw, after using 9% .9% saline solution and 9% water in our mixes for almost 9 months, we have sensed nothing but benefits in the 'hydration department'. (And whenever we go back to vaping a tank of our 'purchased juices' (which were 20pg/80vg), the dehydration is very much increased & noticeable immediately

Whatever works!

 

[Chas F.]

That's some good stuff we2rcool. Thanks for sharing your experiences with us!

 

[AttyPops]

Add salt to any pan of water; it boils quicker. I should have said "raises the boiling point" instead of lowering - oopsy-sorry-bout that.

Of course, only water actually hydrates. Without salt, the body can't (simply put) 'hold onto water' - too much salt and we die. Put a few grains of salt on the tongue - instant wetter mouth.

PG & VG both "pull water to themselves". In the body this actually-ultimately DEhydrates. Wherever the PG/VG are, water is pulled to them...since they are on tissue - they suck water right out of the tissue to themselves. Because of this 'water pulling effect', VG & PG are commonly used in "skin moisturizers"...put them on dry skin, and the skin immediately becomes softer & more 'hydrated'. But it is known that the water is pulled from deeper in the skin (as well as from the air) - and continued use ultimately causes the skin/tissue to become even drier.

Yes, our lungs are used to the moisture in the air (as well as exhaling the moisture) - what they (and the rest of our body) is not used to is being coated in substances that pull water from the tissues. Hence, one of the first things we learn when switching to vaping from analogs is that we become dehydrated and all newbies are advised: hydrate! more water! hydrate! more water!

Mix a little saline solution into the vg/pg, and the dehydration/irritation from the dehydrating effect of the vg/pg is (at least temporarily) soothed...and the flavoring is enhanced, too! (so we can use less chemicals).

Fwiw, after using 9% .9% saline solution and 9% water in our mixes for almost 9 months, we have sensed nothing but benefits in the 'hydration department'. (And whenever we go back to vaping a tank of our 'purchased juices' (which were 20pg/80vg), the dehydration is very much increased & noticeable immediately

Whatever works!

You may wish to re-read or re-quote...just note I was editing. Sorry. It's the water that moves in and out of the cells according to concentration levels.

Also, I don't understand your point...other than you like saline. Cool. I also don't know who "We" are that you keep quoting. Are you a vendor?

 

[we2rcool]

That's some good stuff we2rcool. Thanks for sharing your experiences with us!

'More than welcome, of course!

 

[Exchaner]

Hey guys, I am relatively new to DIY and need help deciding how much distilled water to add to VG for increased vapor production and a crisper vape. Been adding 15% with good results until recently when I switched to a new vendor for my VG (MyFreedomSmokes) I think their product is a little thinner than others because now it gets way too thin with 15%. Has anyone else had a similar experience, and is there in fact a difference in thickness between vendors? Where do I get VG that is not too thin? Thanks everyone for a great thread. One last question, has anyone else found that adding water to VG makes for a crisper vape, and improves throat hit slightly? Or is it just my imagination. Thanks again.

 

[Hoosier]

Hey guys, I am relatively new to DIY and need help deciding how much distilled water to add to VG for increased vapor production and a crisper vape. Been adding 15% with good results until recently when I switched to a new vendor for my VG (MyFreedomSmokes) I think their product is a little thinner than others because now it gets way too thin with 15%. Has anyone else had a similar experience, and is there in fact a difference in thickness between vendors? Where do I get VG that is not too thin? Thanks everyone for a great thread. One last question, has anyone else found that adding water to VG makes for a crisper vape, and improves throat hit slightly? Or is it just my imagination. Thanks again.

You could use "Kurt's Rule Of Thumb For Water In VG" (It's what I call it, so I'm quoting myself being the arrogant Hoosier that I am.)
Water + Flavoring = 20-22% of total mix.

Or you could add water slowly and check it after each addition and find the amount that is perfect for you, your VG, and your equipment.

 

[FACE MEAT]

Technically, it'd be 9 grams of salt into 991mL of water.

Wouldn't a .9% solution be .9 grams into 99.1ml?

 

[Exchaner]

You are both right. He is talking about 1000ml, and yours is 100ml.

 

[Ropav]

So how much distilled water should i be adding to a 10 ml bottle?

 

[Firecrow]

Like Ropav, I'd like to try this with premixed juices - IMHO the only downside to solve with vaping is the dehydration problem. That should be a simple chemistry problem and I am surprised none of the commercial -juice suppliers have tackled that one.

 

[Blueser]

We make a "base" of 80% VG; 9% distilled water; 9% saline solution (.9%) and 2% PGA...and use that as "VG".

Hey Cool...I made up a 30ml bottle base following your recommendation. I used it in a mix I make pretty regularly and let it sit for a few days. I tried it last night and I found my mix was a lot smoother tasting, cooler and a lot less throat irritation. I going to make up more base using your formula. I'm liking this...tks for the suggestion.

 

[dannyv45]

So how much distilled water should i be adding to a 10 ml bottle?

What are you vaping pg/vg wise. I vape 65vg/35pg and find 3% water good. Greater then 80%vg will need more 5 - 6%

 

[Firecrow]

What are you vaping pg/vg wise. I vape 65vg/35pg and find 3% water good. Greater then 80%vg will need more 5 - 6%

70%vg/30%pg

 

[Jonibrasco]

Do you guys use regular white vinegar or apple cider vinegar. Does it really matter which kind?

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Jonibrasco]

I started. Diy to save money... i think this is more of a money pit than buying mods lol. I am interested on the above vg mix. What do you recomend for pga. Will everclear work?

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2

 

[we2rcool]

Note...there's a lot more going on in our lungs and with PG/VG/Nic and flavorings added than just this saline topic. Lungs have mucus membranes and bronchial tubes, etc for dealing with stuff. And so too is it more complex for mouth linings and nose linings and such....

Well, let us HOPE that anyone old enough to DIY has the fundamental education necessary to understand all that...as well as the understanding that our lungs are not equipped for "dealing with stuff" that involves the 7/30/365 inhalation of pg/vg/nic/chemical-laced vapor (which is nothing like the normal inhalation of air, toxic or otherwise, which we're doing whether we vape or not).

However, I still don't know how much salt actually makes it into the vapor. Taste buds are pretty sensitive for salt in most cases.

We don't know (or care actually) "how much" makes it into the vapor - perhaps others do. All we need to know is:
--can we reasonably assume it is safe? yes.
--does it create a wetter, less dehydrating, less irritating vapor? yes.
--does it enhance flavors? yes.
YAY!

As far as 'taste buds', neither of us can taste "salt" in our mixes when using .9% saline solution at 9%. Of course, taste can/will vary individually.

You may wish to re-read or re-quote...just note I was editing. Sorry. It's the water that moves in and out of the cells according to concentration levels.

Also, I don't understand your point...other than you like saline. Cool. I also don't know who "We" are that you keep quoting. Are you a vendor?

Our point in posting in a thread entitled: DIY Master Techniques - Flavor Add-on's (EM, VW, BW, MTS, ACV, ect) , is to join into the discussion about the add-on of saline, and share our experiences and knowledge for the benefit of others.

We are not vendors. We are two, married 'groovy-cool ole hippie soulmates' (we2rcool), that share one ECF account/ID. We study, learn, experiment and DIY together, so even though it may be either of us posting individually...we typically agree on everything, we post as "we".