DIY Master Techniques - Flavor Add-on's (EM, VW, BW, MTS, ACV, ect)

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AmandaD

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I will try out 120 degrees in a dehydrator sometime this week. I plan on doing one flavor in six different clear glass bottles, 1 capped and 1 uncapped for four hours, six hours and 8 hours, with a vigorous shaking every two hours. Will let ya's know how it turns out.

Fabulous! I did heat steep at approx 150% in my crockpot yesterday, and the juice seems fine. But as it's not one I've made before I have no idea how it would have tasted with another method. I also found in my cupboard an old tiny crockpot (little dipper) so going to see what temperature that maintains throughout the day (the big one bordered on getting too hot).

It was certainly easier than clicking the UC every 8 minutes....on the other hand it wasn't cheap, so I rather wish it was still the best method.....LOL
 

Passunca

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I think you may have confused over heating juice Vs proper steeping temperatures. I recommend not to steep in a microwave because it's to easy to over heat juice to the point of almost boiling which will effect flavor and cause some pretty bad burns to the hands if grabbed right out of the microwave. Proper heating is critical to the steep process but over heating is no good. I too followed the old thinking that 120F was the perfect steeping temperature but very recent discussions and test have shown that heating to 150F is actually an even better temperature for the steeping process. Combined with vibration or Ultrasonic agitation works extreamly well. I've recently turned to this and am having even better and faster results at this new temperature. we2rcool has also tested this with very positive results.

Ah, I misunderstood. My bad.
You say you're having better and faster results, does that changes the rule of thumb 1H=1week?

I've convinced my wife and we bought a dehydrator, it should arrive sometime around next week, so only then I will be able to test it myself.
I had success with my 10min timer UC, with no heat. The water gets warm but it's not linear, because I turn it on when I get by, so temperature is always changing. Can't wait as I was already happy with the UC process. I suppose it could only get better.

And VegasDealer let us know how it goes. Thanks for sharing.
 

DeadbeatJeff

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So, I need to add

(1)"Body"
(2)"Hit"

to my juices that I've made with homemade TE and other VG extractions. They Taste good, but are "thin" feeling, even though they puff tons of vapor. The mixed are generally 80-85%VG, 15-20%PG.

-I've read some... maybe I need "VapeWizerd"?.. and, wth is this, exactly?
-EM?

----------------------------------------------

I'd also like to add something to get the peripheral flavors (liquorice+anise and vanilla) to pop more (the TE is really dominating rt now, even though its a simple extract from organic American Spirit RYO, a fairly light flavor in itself.)

I've sweetened it with some Sweetleaf Stevia drops, but the sweetness isn't really there yet either.

However, the juice itself is less than 2 days old... should I expect the flavors to come out more as it steeps/ages?
 
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horton

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You may want to check around page 8 or so of this thread, DeadbeatJeff..... I seem to remember some posts regarding your question. I've also had great success using the search feature on the forum. You sometimes get extraneous results, but can quickly sort through them. Hope this helps you out......
 

dannyv45

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Ah, I misunderstood. My bad.
You say you're having better and faster results, does that changes the rule of thumb 1H=1week?

I've convinced my wife and we bought a dehydrator, it should arrive sometime around next week, so only then I will be able to test it myself.
I had success with my 10min timer UC, with no heat. The water gets warm but it's not linear, because I turn it on when I get by, so temperature is always changing. Can't wait as I was already happy with the UC process. I suppose it could only get better.

And VegasDealer let us know how it goes. Thanks for sharing.

I haven't though about that much. That is the rule of thumb that most use but I'm a fly by the seat of my pants kinda guy and just steep until I think it's ready.
 

dannyv45

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So, I need to add

(1)"Body"
(2)"Hit"

to my juices that I've made with homemade TE and other VG extractions. They Taste good, but are "thin" feeling, even though they puff tons of vapor. The mixed are generally 80-85%VG, 15-20%PG.

-I've read some... maybe I need "VapeWizerd"?.. and, wth is this, exactly?
-EM?

----------------------------------------------

I'd also like to add something to get the peripheral flavors (liquorice+anise and vanilla) to pop more (the TE is really dominating rt now, even though its a simple extract from organic American Spirit RYO, a fairly light flavor in itself.)

I've sweetened it with some Sweetleaf Stevia drops, but the sweetness isn't really there yet either.

However, the juice itself is less than 2 days old... should I expect the flavors to come out more as it steeps/ages?

Try .5% marshmallow to add thickness. For throat hit you may need to adjust the NIC or PG concentration.
 

dannyv45

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And... what is this about "heat steeping"? But basically heat (Bottle soaking in hot water) steeping is using heat to shorten the steeping time. The debate was should the temperature be 120f or 150f. New testing and discussing leans towards 150F.

I;d always thought steeping juice was just a matter of letting it sit around...

Read my blog on steeping it will tell you every thing you need to know. Basically heat steeping is soaking juice bottle in hot water to shorten the steep time. The debate was is 120F or 150F temperature better. Recent testing and discussion leans towards 150F.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...you-wanted-know-about-steeping-then-some.html
 
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DeadbeatJeff

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Try .5% marshmallow to add thickness. For throat hit you may need to adjust the NIC or PG concentration.
Tryin to not use any flavorings with mystery ingredients (part of the reason, combined with $, I wanna do my own)... I'll look into marshmallow though. I assume its' some sort of EM mix?

As for PG/Nic content relative to throat hit: I really don't wanna up the NIC (already at around 20, which is as high as I wanna take anything moving forward. And I've heard that PG gives more hit, and this is true; however, I have several 100% VG juices (not my own) that hit just fine, better than the 50/50 juices I have IMO (not harder per se, just better). Maybe the problem is related to the "body" issue, maybe a matter of steeping?
 

Ride394

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Just a quick note on heat steeping to try to save you guys some money.

Most house contain some sort of coffee maker and a thermos. Brew a pot of hot water toss some in your thermos and then add cold water to get to 150. Drop in your bottles and put the lid on. Depending on your thermos quality you may need to add hot water to keep it at 150.
 

rowdyplace

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Just a quick note on heat steeping to try to save you guys some money.

Most house contain some sort of coffee maker and a thermos. Brew a pot of hot water toss some in your thermos and then add cold water to get to 150. Drop in your bottles and put the lid on. Depending on your thermos quality you may need to add hot water to keep it at 150.

What??

And give up playing with my brand new Walmart $10.00 crock pot, external christmas light bulb on/off controller set to go on/off every 30 minutes, the mail order aquarium digital thermometer that reads water hot enough to cook your fish in, 3 outlet filtered, powered, and switchable extension cord, etc.- just to keep my hot water at 150 degrees...

Gee, that would take the fun out of this hobby... Then I'd have enough time to go outside and smoke a cigarette...(LOL)

(Not a good joke!) But that was a good idea you shared.
 
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Ride394

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What??

And give up playing with my brand new Walmart $10.00 crock pot, external christmas light bulb on/off controller set to go on/off every 30 minutes, the mail order aquarium digital thermometer that reads water hot enough to cook your fish in, 3 outlet filtered, powered, and switchable extension cord, etc.- just to keep my hot water at 150 degrees...

Gee, that would take the fun out of this hobby... Then I'd have enough time to go outside and smoke a cigarette...(LOL)

(Not a good joke!) But that was a good idea you shared.

Hahahaha. I hear ya on all the crazy stuff. I have an ultrasonic cleaner that I use when I'm doing a bunch of bottles, but I was cleaning my Keurig tonight and looked over and saw my hunting thermos (which has held hot coffee for 4 hours at around 10 degrees) and a light bulb went off. Perfect for doing a few small bottles which I needed done but didn't feel like diggin out the ultrasonic.
 

rowdyplace

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Hahahaha. I hear ya on all the crazy stuff. I have an ultrasonic cleaner that I use when I'm doing a bunch of bottles, but I was cleaning my Keurig tonight and looked over and saw my hunting thermos (which has held hot coffee for 4 hours at around 10 degrees) and a light bulb went off. Perfect for doing a few small bottles which I needed done but didn't feel like diggin out the ultrasonic.

As my son tells me, the paraphernalia is half of the addiction, er, hobby. Look on my blog (under my name on the left) and see the tools/toys I have made to make my DIY life easier, safer or just more fun.
 

rowdyplace

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Yeah my wife would say the same. Those some handy ideas! I might steal one or 2

Help your self. They were built to keep me from spilling the expensive, smelly and sticky juices and flavors. Also, I'm lazy and wanted to make things easier.

The tray looks like a good desk for a heroine user - what with the long needle and syringes.
 

VegasDealer

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Okay, reading that 120 degrees may not be as good as 150 degrees, I think that what I am going to do is split the difference and test the six bottle heat steep at 135 degrees. This may be the route to take especially for the long 8 hour steep. I will also have a control bottle that will not be placed in the heat to compare color difference. Hopefully today will be the day that I do the six bottle test. Actually, I think I will start it in about 30 minutes now that I am thinking about it, so that I can get everything cooking as I work around the house today.
 

dannyv45

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If you look back at we2Rcool's posts he said that 130F, 135F did not make much difference then steeping at 120F. The magic number seemed to be 150F. I gave that a try in my UC at 150F and noticed a big difference in steep time and quality. So if your going to test this I would keep a control bottle off to the side as a benchmark then do one at 120F and one at 150F. Steep both for the exact same amount of time but you shouldn't need more then 3 - 5 hours for results. This is just my humble opinion.
 
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VegasDealer

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If you look back at we2Rcool's posts he said that 130F, 135F did not make much difference then steeping at 120F. The magic number seemed to be 150F. I gave that a try in my UC at 150F and noticed a big difference in steep time and quality. So if your going to test this I would keep a control bottle off to the side as a benchmark then do one at 120F and one at 150F. Steep both for the exact same amount of time but you shouldn't need more then 3 - 5 hours for results. This is just my humble opinion.

Thanks Danny. I came in late in the discussion and haven't had the time to go back and read the post(s) about the difference between comparing temperatures by we2Rcool.

I have now done six bottles at 135 degrees, 2 at 4 hours, 2 at 6 hours and 2 at 8 hours, with 1 capped and 1 uncapped for each time.

I shook each bottle at each 2 hour mark as well.

I have NOT tasted any of the bottles as of yet and all have sat capped at room temperature for 12-16 hours now (basically overnight).

First thing I noticed was that there is no colorization difference between the capped/uncapped bottles for any of the durations when compared to the capped one for the same duration. Next there has been no loss of liquid between the capped or uncapped bottles (which I thought there may be because of using a dehydrator).

Next there is a distinct color difference between all duration bottles and the control bottle that was not heated (several shades).

Next, there is what I would say is about 1-2 shades different between the 4 hour and 6 hour and again between the 6 hour and the 8 hour bottles. Virtually no coloration difference between the capped/uncapped bottles of the same duration, although there may be a taste difference.

As per your advice (and that of we2Rcool's), I will next do another six bottles at 150 degrees using the exact same flavor mix. I also have some of this flavor that has steeped naturally for 3 months in a large amber bottle and after I am done with the 150 degree test I will put some in a clear glass bottle to compare coloration differences. Then start to actually TASTE the different durations to see what that results in.

FYI I am using a flavor that starts out, when freshly mixed, as a very, very light golden color that then turns to a much darker amber color when naturally steeped. I probably should do a tobacco that turns from a light yellow color to a red color after a long natural steeping, which may be the next set of testing that I do.

Just have to say THANKS to we2Rcool for their previous work on this and for sharing it with everyone (BTW, I am originally from Iowa, as it seems is we2Rcool. "Corn fed and country bred" as I like to say)! Hopefully as I do my testing I will be able to replicate and confirm their results. Now I just have to start using some saline in my mixes as they have suggested too (I already have 120ml of .9 saline solution waiting on me to do it).
 

VegasDealer

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Tryin to not use any flavorings with mystery ingredients (part of the reason, combined with $, I wanna do my own)... I'll look into marshmallow though. I assume its' some sort of EM mix?

As for PG/Nic content relative to throat hit: I really don't wanna up the NIC (already at around 20, which is as high as I wanna take anything moving forward. And I've heard that PG gives more hit, and this is true; however, I have several 100% VG juices (not my own) that hit just fine, better than the 50/50 juices I have IMO (not harder per se, just better). Maybe the problem is related to the "body" issue, maybe a matter of steeping?

I think that most all flavorings have mystery ingredients (unless of course we get the flavoring manufacturers to reveal their recipes). The flavoring vendor I use has FDA approval for all of their flavorings as well as being kosher approved.
 
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