DIY Master Techniques - Steeping

Status
Not open for further replies.

micksf

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Nov 29, 2011
309
295
San Fran
I'm starting a series of threads asking the old and new pros to give us their DIY techniques , most of which is already out there but hopefully now all collected here, in one place. I've started different threads for different topics.

This thread is specifically for Steeping Methods.*

In this thread, please post your method for Steeping (ex. how long do you steep, caps on/off, shaking, water baths, ect.)

Please give specifics and include any info that people might find helpful. Please don't hijack this thread with debates, it's more about sharing your individual successful experiences and methods. Thanks to everyone for their input.



* please use my other Masters threads for other topics
www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy...echniques-determining-flavor-percentages.html
www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/268759-diy-masters-techniques-mixing-flavors.html
www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy...ques-flavor-add-ons-em-vw-bw-mts-acv-ect.html
 
Last edited:

Str8V8ping

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 10, 2011
3,944
2,077
NYC
I find the majority of fresh juices need to be steeped . This is expecially the case i find with Bakery juice . Creamy or richness needs time to develop. I find its like a chemical reaction . WHen you first make a juice you mix it but its just that mixed . The molecules are mixed together however they are not BONDED together yet . Steeping IMO gives the molecules time to latch on to eachother . This latching is was brings the flavors out.

I steep by removing the cap for 1-2 days and leaving it in a cool/dark place . After that i put the cap back on and let it continue to steep for another 3-4days . Some need less time some need more .You can vape some in between to see how steeping is effecting the juice . (The removal of the cap method is only to speed the process up and it is not technically needed if you dont mind waiting 1-3 days longer )

When DIYing a new juice i also like to mix in glass tubes . I do this so i can stick it in the microwave for 8 seconds and be sure no plastic is leaching into the juice . This helps to speed up steeping as well and so you can get a better idea of the flavor right away.

This is my method after testing multiple different methods and it works best for ME .YMMV
 

wizard10000

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jul 14, 2011
1,071
521
midwestern us
I wouldn't call myself a master by any means but I've found that damn near everything I make benefits from steeping for awhile.

I quit microwaving juice because I'm skeered of what some of these ingredients may break down into if overheated, and microwaves just don't heat evenly.

What I do is fill a two-cup measuring cup with hot water, microwave that for two minutes then drop a closed bottle of juice into it and let it sit until it gets back down to room temperature. I find it takes a couple days off steeping time so for me it's well worth the effort.

With the couple of mixes that are my go-to vapes I keep two bottles - one for vaping and one that's steeping. When a bottle gets empty I just make another one so I've always got one that's ready to vape. IME if I quick-steep a bottle with hot water it's generally about as good as it's going to get after a week to ten days.

Also just my experience but I've learned that something that tastes just right when you make it can be a bit overpowering if you let it steep for a week or so - this seems to be especially true with caramel and I do a lot of caramel. I take good notes and keep everything I make in a spreadsheet, so I don't have any problem making post-steep adjustments as long as I keep everything documented and I account for every drop of flavoring.
 

FriedLiverAtack

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Oct 23, 2011
509
333
58
California, USA
this seems to be especially true with caramel and I do a lot of caramel.

I would very much like to hear your favorite caramel based mixes. Caramel has become one of my main daily vapes and I have just begun tinkering around with it. Current mix I am playing with is 8 parts caramel with 1 part chocolate and 1 part barbarian creme in an attempt to give it a richer flavor. This is my first attempt at making something more complex than a straight flavor or 50/50 mix.
 

Cool_Breeze

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Apr 10, 2011
4,117
4,291
Kentucky
...When DIYing a new juice i also like to mix in glass tubes . I do this so i can stick it in the microwave for 8 seconds and be sure no plastic is leaching into the juice . This helps to speed up steeping as well and so you can get a better idea of the flavor right away. ...

Ah...so often something is left out of the equation... 8 seconds on 6ml of juice is a lot different than 8 seconds on 50ml.

How milliliters of jucie do you microwave for 8 seconds?
 

wizard10000

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jul 14, 2011
1,071
521
midwestern us
I would very much like to hear your favorite caramel based mixes. Caramel has become one of my main daily vapes and I have just begun tinkering around with it. Current mix I am playing with is 8 parts caramel with 1 part chocolate and 1 part barbarian creme in an attempt to give it a richer flavor. This is my first attempt at making something more complex than a straight flavor or 50/50 mix.

You're really close to what I'm doing now, which is

10% caramel
5% Bavarian cream
3% chocolate
3% cotton candy

I'm using a bit more Bavarian cream and chocolate than you are and the cotton candy sweetens things up a bit. I found caramel without the chocolate a bit thin - but with a little work it can be a pretty nice vape.
 

frequentj

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Dec 24, 2010
512
174
Louisville, KY
I haven't been at it too long, but I like to warm my final mix up in the microwave for a few seconds in my glass cylinder. I feel it helps the flavors blend better, plus it makes the eliquid thinner and a lot easier to pour all of it in my bottle. I also like the needle-nose luer lock bottles. My stuff seems to steep a lot faster in there (more air?).
 

FriedLiverAtack

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Oct 23, 2011
509
333
58
California, USA
I noticed that the sweetener I added to my caramel mix intensified dramatically after a little steeping, will have to cut back considerably with the next batch.

ummmmmmm maybe. There's a lot of it that's not worth reproducing :D

I shared my caramel recipe above. That and a caramel cappuccino are the only two I make regularly any more ;)

I wonder what a little "apple pie" would do to the caramel/chocolate/bravarian creme. Find the apple pie a little intense (cinnamony) by itself but it might add something to the caramel.
 

Str8V8ping

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 10, 2011
3,944
2,077
NYC
Ah...so often something is left out of the equation... 8 seconds on 6ml of juice is a lot different than 8 seconds on 50ml.

How milliliters of jucie do you microwave for 8 seconds?

It actually isnt all that much of a difference . 8 seconds per 5-10ml or 8 seconds per 50ml will work just as well . Your not looking for burning hot ,just warm to the touch. Enough to heat the juice but not enough to have it condensate. I find 8 seconds to work perfect however all microwaves are different . It doesnt have to be exact .
 

Tona Aspsusa

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Dec 13, 2011
213
84
Finland
I'm still very much a newbie, and simply don't have enough experience yet to talk about. But I've been reading voraciously of (mainly) this forum for a few months now, so maybe some theoretical points wrt steeping that I have pondered and picked up may be helpful:

IF* you consider steeping an important part/tool of mixing there seems to be two distinct schools of thought:

- Time
- Air

Within these two schools there is then some variety in how much people utilize heat, either directly (microwave) or indirectly (hot water bath).

From what I've read and thought I would say that the "Air-school", ie cap-off, are probably people who are very sensitive to certain smells (for instance alcohol), and hence absolutely need a steep that evaporates away some stuff. They may also really like the smell/taste/feel of some oxidized compounds (might be nic, might be something totally different, might vary between flavours).

The "Time-school" otoh are either not very sensitive to some smells/tastes (alcohol again the first that come to mind, and of course flavours that need alcohol as a medium), or like them. They are probably more sensitive to a blend being as evenly blended as possible (see below, heat). OR they may be sensitive to, or dislike, flavour notes that occurr with oxidation.

And then we have the thing that both Air and Time people have in common: what is it that happens when flavours sit together for a prolonged time? Something obviously does, but is it a chemical change (liquids that change colour when in a closed bottle would indicate this), or just a really really thorough blending, evening out of all the molecules so they are evenly suspended?

We don't know - a good chemist who is also a professional flavourist or perfumer might have an idea here, but I think for most of us it is just trial and error and guesswork based on a) experience and b) guesses according to what we know about a flavourants volatility.

Now, what about heat?
When applying heat to something cap-on we just make the liquid flow better => mix more thoroughly. This is easy to see if you use a glass cylinder and measure up several very thick things in it, they will want to layer and not budge and blend. Heat it up and shake it - voila!
But there's another factor here too: if we are applying heat with the cap removed, we are also letting things evaporate. My guess is that alcohol and water are the two that goes first - so flavour molecules that are more attached to alc and water than to VG or PG also preferentially leave your mix, leaving a different ratio of flavours than what you added originally.

Personally, theoretically, I don't think there's one ultimate right way to approach steeping. I think what one decides to do must be based on a) hunch, and b) convenience.
When it comes to hunches, sniffing and tasting your newly mixed liquid might give you an idea - "hmm, there's this something I don't like, maybe it will evaporate away if I leave it open/maybe it will blend in if I leave it closed".
Convenience also is not to be underestimated: do you have the space to open-steep things? Do you have the time to mix things that require a long steep?


Finally a few guesses based on what I've read:

- Fruity flavours require very little steep.
This may be because they are often not overly complex, and it may also have something to do with the actual chemistry of these molecules - most of them might be of the type that quickly and readily "takes to" PG/VG.

- Tobaccos are often said to require long steeps, and many swear by at least some open-cap time.
There might be several reasons for this, the first that comes to mind is that there are several "perfume-y" notes in many tobacco-flavourings (both natural and absolute-based), and some people are very very sensitive to these.
Another reason might be that tobaccos are inherently pretty complex tastes/smells. I've been mixing mostly tobaccos, and it is *insane* how many of the notes in these (both artificial and also absolutes and extracts) are also ingredients in cosmetics!
Whether you are working from artifical flavourings or absolutes (or your own extracts) you are already dealing with pretty complex smells/tastes even before combining them.

- Bakery and custard type flavours I have absolutely no experience with, but given that these are flavours that try to emulate things that happen in cooking processes, my guess would be that these could go either way in how much steeping they need. They might be a mix of several discrete notes that need steeping, or they might be "ready" as they are and not change much. Since most people seem to mix these with other types of flavour, it is almost impossible to say whether it is the mix that need steeping, or the bakery/custard flavour on its own.


*That is a pretty big if: there are people who just don't care about steeping. Some say it makes no difference, others say that they mix so frequently that it doesn't matter - better to mix for consumtion within the 1-3 days.
 
Last edited:

Karla Lyle

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Dec 27, 2011
1,952
2,913
46
Frederick, md
My husband had the bright idea to stick a 6ML plastic bottle in the microwave for about 6 seconds, (yes, I said plastic) and when he went to grab it, it POPPED! Like a balloon literally popped the bottle and exploded all over his hands and he was pretty severely burned. Of course I wasn't there til right after he did it. I would never have let him put plastic in the microwave. And I thought I was supposed to be the dumb blonde. So I'm assuming 8 seconds might be a little much for 5ml but that's what we've been doing to our DIY ejuice as well. Seems to really help the steeping.
 

frequentj

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Dec 24, 2010
512
174
Louisville, KY
My husband had the bright idea to stick a 6ML plastic bottle in the microwave for about 6 seconds, (yes, I said plastic) and when he went to grab it, it POPPED! Like a balloon literally popped the bottle and exploded all over his hands and he was pretty severely burned. Of course I wasn't there til right after he did it. I would never have let him put plastic in the microwave. And I thought I was supposed to be the dumb blonde. So I'm assuming 8 seconds might be a little much for 5ml but that's what we've been doing to our DIY ejuice as well. Seems to really help the steeping.

OK, I confess, I once melted a 5 mL plastic bottle of pg/vg in the microwave trying to warm it up for menthol crystals. My microwave smelled like menthol for weeks, even with repeated cleanings. Luckily, it was a small amount, but I could see how it could easily burn you very badly, and it happened very fast! That's why now I only use my glass cylinder or a glass bottle when I heat my stuff in the microwave, and I only go a few seconds at a time.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread