E-cigarettes deliver almost no nicotine.

[Sandybeach40]

I woke up today after 2 months of using E Cigs and really started to wounder if I was even getting nicotine from this habit. I always assumed that I was getting less than a analog but today after pondering the effects of super heating the nicotine. with the atty, i woundered if there would be any nicotine left to be delivered by the vapor.

How true is this article?
E-cigarettes deliver almost no nicotine.

 

[Vapenstein]

That is fine by me, if true it just shows that the psychological end of nicotine addiction is the harder hill to climb. They take the edge off, and I have a physical act that replicates smoking. Win-win, I quit analogs the day I got my gear, and I hadn't planned to, I wanted to.

 

[owutaqt]

I think that is interesting, however when I vape high nic liquids I 'feel' the difference, maybe all in my head if so cool then we are all non smokers and we just love this vaping thing and have no nicotine its all good.

 

[HeatherC]

Hmm maybe some of the people from the FDA should be looking at studies like that.

 

[Sandybeach40]

vaping worked for me when nothing else would. But am I now just a poser am I now just a pretender.

 

[laurel099]

I can easily tell I'm getting some nicotine when I use higher nic liquids I notice a difference. When I went to zero nic, my husband noticed the difference I was a tad grouchy lol. While we might not be getting tons of nic, we are absorbing nic.

That Eissenberg study was flawed and even Eissenberg admitted that. I know he's performing another study and seeking experience ecig users in VA area for the study: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/campaigning-discussions/129629-laboratory-study-needs-experienced-electronic-cigarette-users.html

 

[kristin]

I woke up today after 2 months of using E Cigs and really started to wounder if I was even getting nicotine from this habit. I always assumed that I was getting less than a analog but today after pondering the effects of super heating the nicotine. with the atty, i woundered if there would be any nicotine left to be delivered by the vapor.

How true is this article?
E-cigarettes deliver almost no nicotine.

It's very true. The people in that study were probably getting very little nicotine, because they received NO instruction on how to use an e-cigarette and were limited in how they could use it.

Every experienced vaper (using an automatic battery mini) knows to use primer puffs to heat up the atty, that the primer fluid needs to burn off before the atty starts delivering nicotine and that puffing on it like a cigarette will get unsatisfactory results. Most vapers learn to do a slow, staedy mouth draw, not a straight lung draw, because the nicotine seems to be absorbed in the upper airway, not the lungs.

This is why Eissenberg is now seeking to do a study with experienced vapers, IMO. He got reamed by experienced vapers for his testing methods and once he tried an ecig himeself, saw that nicotine WAS delivered.

But, as some people have pointed out - if it works to keep you off tobacco cigarettes, who even cares how much nicotine you are getting?

It's like faulting low-fat ice cream for not delivering "enough" fat to the user. If people are enjoying it and it helps their diet, who cares?

 

[rachelcoffe]

I agree with your post above, kristin. Just wanted to add: I DIY all my juices, using flavourless PG (28mg nic strength), a bit of plain VG or plain PG, and concentrated flavouring. My final juices are usually between 15mg and 20mg nic strength, depending on the recipe I go with.

When I ran out of PG with nicotine in late September (I'd been trying so many new flavours that I ran out sooner than expected), I totally, totally noticed the difference between vaping with nicotine and vaping without it. Even the taste was different; the 'fullness' I expect from vapour was not there. And my body definitely noticed it. Since then, I'm making sure I always have a good supply on hand.

But yeah - smokers actually get less nicotine from smoking, than vapers get from vaping. The average tobacco cigarette has around 2mg of nicotine in it, but most of that never gets to the smoker (being burnt up & carried off in the smoke from the tip). Conversely, 1 millilitre of 18mg strength e-juice (enough to fill a cartomizer) has 18mg of nicotine in it (18 parts per thousand). And virtually all of that nicotine will be absorbed by the vaper (at least if they're doing it right, lol - as kristin pointed out earlier, there is a learning curve at first for newbie vapers).

Anyway, yeah.

 

[FyreDragon]

Nicotine from E-cigs is known to be absorbed more slowly than nicotine from analogs. If they measured levels very quickly after use, I would expect them to have seen negatively skewed results for delivered dose.

 

[bassthumper]

If I'm not getting nicotine from my ecigs, then this recent UDS I took wouldn't be loaded with nicotine. I asked them to check because of this very article! I haven't smoked or chewd anything for months and I only vape. So I have scientific evidence I suppose lol.
Seriously- go to a clinic, have them do a Gas Chromography (sp?) UDS test on your urine and ask them to test for nicotine. They'll send it into a lab and you'll have your results in a few days.

Also, if you WEREN'T getting nicotine, the e-cig would be one of (if not) THE BEST placebo effects in HISTORY lol... (and in that case, I won't complain!)

 

[smokum]

I think its important to realize or at least considering the "warmed" nicotine that is being vaporized and inhaled that is not in "direct" contact with the heat source (both e-cig and tobacco cigarette) is kept active without it being burned off and becoming inert.

It would make sense (I believe), that nicotine would be "burned off" at the high temps, but the nicotine further from the source of heat "is" being heated to a vapor and inhaled which would mean it is still active in both cases. And its noteworthy that an atomizer will certainly not run as hot as a cigarette "cherry", otherwise your juice AND filler material would simply burn/melt.

VapeOn,
Greg

 

[wmrwl]

I know I'm getting it, but if you're not sure just take a cotinine test. I would be curious to hear the results.

 

[AlexTM]

But yeah - smokers actually get less nicotine from smoking, than vapers get from vaping. The average tobacco cigarette has around 2mg of nicotine in it, but most of that never gets to the smoker (being burnt up & carried off in the smoke from the tip). Conversely, 1 millilitre of 18mg strength e-juice (enough to fill a cartomizer) has 18mg of nicotine in it (18 parts per thousand). And virtually all of that nicotine will be absorbed by the vaper (at least if they're doing it right, lol - as kristin pointed out earlier, there is a learning curve at first for newbie vapers).

The average cigarette contains about 18mg of nicotine, of which an experienced smoker almost always - whether a "light" cigarette or not - absorbs about 1mg. How much of the nic in vape is actually absorbed is currently a complete mystery, although it is most certainly more than "almost none".

 

[rachelcoffe]

Hi AlexTM.

Your figure for the actual amount of nicotine in a tobacco cigarette seemed...excessive to me. So I looked high & low. I haven't found any figures or statistics saying that any tobacco cigarettes contain anywhere near 18mg of nicotine, absorbable or otherwise. I have found numerous references to their containing (on average) 1 to 2mg of nicotine. It even says so on most tobacco cigarette packages. For example, an old package I have here reads [per cigarette]: Nicotine: 0.8 - 2.3 mg.

Now perhaps they're referring only to the nicotine that actually gets to (or can potentially get to) the smoker. But it's a moot point, since anything that doesn't get to the smoker...doesn't get to the smoker. Do you see what I'm saying? For all practical purposes, I would put forth that an average of 1 to 2mg of nicotine per tobacco cigarette is accurate.

2.
Secondly, the following is very important. "How much of the nic in vapour [that] is actually absorbed [by the person vaping]" is not a mystery. That information is known.

To give a notable example: in late 2008, Health New Zealand released a report on its studies into the issue. They found that virtually all of the nicotine in the vapour is absorbed by the person vaping; that only trace amounts of the nicotine make it into your exhaled vapour.

Furthermore [warning, going on my pro-nic rant

], nicotine itself (at the levels found in tobacco, or NRT, or e-juice - they all contain comparable levels) is no more harmful than the caffeine in our coffe (as tons of studies, medical groups, professors & physicians have concluded). It's the means of delivery that is at issue. Deadly tobacco smoke...or clean, germ-killing PG vapour. Here's an interesting link (just one of many out there):

BBC NEWS | Health | Smokers 'need more help to quit'

The Royal College of Physicians in the UK (an impressive body); Professor Britton, who is also an expert in epidemiology at the University of Nottingham; Action on Smoking and Health and Cancer Research UK - they all agree that nicotine is no more harmful than caffeine. An attack on the nicotine in e-juice has as much validity as an attack on the caffeine in coffe.

When I discuss this issue with family, friends & acquaintances for the first time...I briefly explain how because the exhaled vapour is basically just flavoured steam, it evaporates within a few seconds (if not faster), just like steam from a boiling pot of water. So it doesn't hang in the air, doesn't stick to you or smell up the place...doesn't do anything except actually clean the air really (vapourized PG has been known for decades to be a powerful germicidal, bactericidal, and in some cases even virucidal agent).

If anyone expresses concern about their potential exposure to nicotine, I mention that the vaper's body absorbs virtually all of the nicotine when it is inhaled (it does), and exhaled vapour contains only the tiniest trace amounts of nicotine...i.e. virtually no nicotine (also accurate). [Just to clarify - a trace amount is an amount too tiny to be accurately measured even, lol.] Consider too that the volume of air in a room is a bajillion times larger than a person's lungs - and so even that trace amount of nicotine in exhaled vapour quickly diffuses in the air into virtual non-existence. A non-vaper could sit next to a vaper for years and not begin to come anywhere close to any kind of real nicotine exposure. "You get way worse just walking down a sidewalk and occasionally walking past a smoker," I say.

That covers the non-vaper. They're fine. And the vaper's direct exposure (as the one inhaling PG with nicotine & absorbing the nicotine) is 1) not imaginary, we are definitely getting the nicotine [just try vaping without it & you'll totally know, lol] - and 2) is no more harmful than the caffeine one gets from drinking coffe. So vapers are fine too. [End pro-nic rant.

]

I just felt it was important to clarify that one point, AlexTM - that yes, we do know about the nic absorption & that this knowledge has been borne out in proper studies.

 

[yvilla]

Hi AlexTM.

Your figure for the actual amount of nicotine in a tobacco cigarette seemed...excessive to me. So I looked high & low. I haven't found any figures or statistics saying that any tobacco cigarettes contain anywhere near 18mg of nicotine, absorbable or otherwise. I have found numerous references to their containing (on average) 1 to 2mg of nicotine. It even says so on most tobacco cigarette packages. For example, an old package I have here reads [per cigarette]: Nicotine: 0.8 - 2.3 mg.

Now perhaps they're referring only to the nicotine that actually gets to (or can potentially get to) the smoker. But it's a moot point, since anything that doesn't get to the smoker...doesn't get to the smoker. Do you see what I'm saying? For all practical purposes, I would put forth that an average of 1 to 2mg of nicotine per tobacco cigarette is accurate.

Rachel, there is a big difference between nicotine content in a tobacco cigarette, and nicotine yield. "Yield" is what the smoker gets, as you surmised. Much of the nicotine "content" of a typical cigarette never does make it to the smoker in the first place.

While Alex's estimate may have been a little high, as least for US cigarettes, he was correct that the average nicotine content in cigarettes is much higher than the 1 to 2 mg you see listed on cigarette packs - as that figure listed on packs (and seen elsewhere too) is for nicotine yield (but as measured by machine smoking, by the way). But the average nicotine "content" of a cigarette is actually 10.2 mg. in the US. My source for that? An article from the journal Tobacco Control:

On testing 92 brands of cigarettes, it was found that: "The total nicotine content of tobacco and percent nicotine (by weight of tobacco) averaged 10.2 mg and 1.5% in the United States, 13.5 mg and 1.8% in Canada, 12.5 mg and 1.7% in the United Kingdom." (range figures omitted from the quote, but if you look at the article, nicotine content did range as high as 18.3 mg in some Canadian cigarettes, and as high as 17.5 mg in the UK)

Filter ventilation and nicotine content of tobacco in cigarettes from Canada, the United Kingdom, and the United States

Secondly, the following is very important. "How much of the nic in vapour [that] is actually absorbed [by the person vaping]" is not a mystery. That information is known.

To give a notable example: in late 2008, Health New Zealand released a report on its studies into the issue. They found that virtually all of the nicotine in the vapour is absorbed by the person vaping; that only trace amounts of the nicotine make it into your exhaled vapour.

Actually, that was a surmise on Laugesen's part. This is what he said:

"Comments. Inhaled nicotine in cigarette smoke is over 98% absorbed, and so the exhaled mist of the e-cigarette is composed of propylene glycol, and probably contains almost no nicotine; and no CO. (see Figure 3.5) Lacking any active ingredient or any gaseous products of combustion, the PG mist or ‘smoke’ is not harmful to bystanders."

He measured CO levels in ecig users as part of the study he did, but he just extrapolated from previous research into absorption of nicotine from tobacco smoke in surmising that ecig exhalate would have almost no nicotine.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not quarreling with that assumption, but it is important to not overstate our case. Plus, the lack of real knowledge as to how much nicotine is absorbed by the user of an ecig, and as to how much nicotine there may be in exhaled vaper, is a problem that we must face and deal with. We do need that data (and the IVAQS study should go a long way to helping us fill in those blanks), but we should not pretend we have it when we don't yet.

 

[AlexTM]

The posting below was written without refreshing the page; I hadn't seen yvilla's answer
___________________________________________________________________________

@rachelcoffe, you did compare the absolute nicotine content of liquid with a false assumption of the absolute content of an analog, and concluded that "smokers actually get less nicotine from smoking, than vapers get from vaping" and I very much doubt your conclusion. Your numbers are wrong anyway.

I haven't found an English source for the 18mgs on the quick, but it's not exactly a rarely heard figure, and I doubt European cigarettes are that different. You also obviously don't know what those numbers on the label mean: That is the amount of nictine a standardized machine gets our of a cigarette. Not the absolute amount of nicotine in an analog, and not even what a smoker gets our of them. Most smokers can get about 1mg of nic out of an analog. (Even Wikipedia has that much information, and it doesn't have very much.) If necessary, by inhaling down into their toes and holding their breath.

It also is not quite conclusive that one study found little exhaled nicotine - what matters is the nic the body actually uses, and if you were right and almost all of the nic in PVs were used, then most people who start vaping would get a lot more nic than they did before. Which doesn't make sense. Also, we'd have seen more nic in the "no nic is absorbed"-study, because those people must have gotten at least a little bit of nic out of their PVs, none at all is next to impossible.

Let me use myself as an example: I used to smoke around 40 analogs a day, which should have been roughly 40mg of nic. I use 3-4 ml of 18mg liquid a day (plus small amounts of snus and snuff). Are you really trying to tell me that I actually use around 72mgs of nicotine a day? Almost double the amount I used previously? And it's hardly just me, is it? That is quite unlikely.

We do btw agree that nic itself is not particularly dangerous and all that stuff. But kindly check your numbers, because they are flatout nonsense.

 

[rachelcoffe]

To yvilla: thank you for the info. I stand...clarified, lol. Though I had already conceded that the "1 to 2mg" per tobacco cigarette figure was possibly referring to the nicotine that actually gets to the smoker, rather than the overall content (and as you & Alex have since confirmed, that is the case). You're both right that we all need to be as specific as possible. In this case, I was unclear and you both rightly corrected me. In future, I will amend my statements to (accurately) say that only 1 to 2mg of the nicotine in a tobacco cigarette actually gets absorbed by a smoker.

To AlexTM: It was not my intent to be a jerk or anything to you or others here. And it's clear you were being friendly. When I posted earlier, I honestly believed you were mistakenly asserting that "we don't know anything about the absorption" and I was just trying to say, based on what I had learned so far: "hey, wait a minute - we do know (at least, I think we do)." What I'm saying is, my intent was friendly, but I sincerely apologize if I made it seem like I was personally attacking you. *hugs* Really, I am sorry.

But yes I'll also concede that, as yvilla's post showed, there were some details that I wasn't aware of re: the New Zealand study. But those details have now raised new questions for me.

Firstly, re: your vaping 72mg of nic over the course of a day...some smokers smoke like 5 packs a day (granted, crazy ones, lol - but yeah). Admittedly that intake level is not common, but it does happen with some. So it's not inconceivable to me that your nicotine intake might have nearly doubled since you quit smoking & took up vaping. As former smokers, we doubtless have a tolerance built up to nicotine (just as a person who frequently drinks strong coffe is not affected by a cup nearly as much as someone who rarely drinks it).

And now that we're no longer smoking, no longer taking in thousands of deadly things - well I'm just speculating in this paragraph - but it would seem at least possible that we might somehow be compensating for the large dropoff in stuff that we used to take in, by taking in more nicotine than before. I don't know. You're both right - more comprehensive studies, specifically re: vaping, done by objective parties, will be a good thing.

But here's my new question. yvilla, you said that Dr. Laugesen said that the nicotine in the inhaled vapour* "is over 98% absorbed" - so if that's the case (it sounds like that part is a certain conclusion, like an actual finding, not a surmise)...doesn't it follow that there can't possibly be more than 2% nicotine in the exhaled vapour?

[*Note: I assume that the original quote, which said 'cigarette smoke' was a slip of the tongue on Laugesen's part, and that he was referring to inhaled vapour, not to tobacco smoke. Because like half a second later in the same sentence, he talks about the exhaled vapour. Am I right in assuming this? I mean I must be - inhaled 'cigarette smoke' has nothing to do with 'exhaled PG vapour.' And haven't we all just agreed that tobacco smokers don't absorb very much of the nicotine from their tobacco?]

I'm totally not trying to be difficult. But it sounds to me like his surmising that exhaled vapour contains 2% or less of the nicotine is backed up pretty solidly by the previous conclusion that 98% of the nicotine in inhaled vapour is absorbed. At least, if indeed that is a conclusion and not another surmise.

If you ask me, there shouldn't be any surmising in these things. I mean how hard is it to test the exhaled vapour for nicotine??? And if he didn't do that...why didn't he do that? He could've saved us a headache here, lol. Yoy.

 

[beckah54]

I know that I am receiving nicotine from the ecig, I can feel it when I overdo and vape too much. One interesting thing I noticed recently though.....I went on a 10 day trip overseas-smoking was prohibited. I took nothing with me nicotine related, no snus, snuff, gum or ecigs. I felt no withdrawal symptoms at all. I missed the ritual of the ecig but not the actual nicotine. Are the withdrawal symptoms associated with stinky sticks related more to the other additives rather than the nicotine itself?

I did the same thing on another trip in 2008 and had no symptoms either. Just a question that has been rattling around in my mind for a while.

 

[BadThad]

It's very true. The people in that study were probably getting very little nicotine, because they received NO instruction on how to use an e-cigarette and were limited in how they could use it.

Every experienced vaper (using an automatic battery mini) knows to use primer puffs to heat up the atty, that the primer fluid needs to burn off before the atty starts delivering nicotine and that puffing on it like a cigarette will get unsatisfactory results. Most vapers learn to do a slow, staedy mouth draw, not a straight lung draw, because the nicotine seems to be absorbed in the upper airway, not the lungs.

This is why Eissenberg is now seeking to do a study with experienced vapers, IMO. He got reamed by experienced vapers for his testing methods and once he tried an ecig himeself, saw that nicotine WAS delivered.

But, as some people have pointed out - if it works to keep you off tobacco cigarettes, who even cares how much nicotine you are getting?

It's like faulting low-fat ice cream for not delivering "enough" fat to the user. If people are enjoying it and it helps their diet, who cares?

Exactly what I was getting ready to post. His experiment was flawed because of several factors:

1) No discussion of the device used. It was probably inferior and not delivering sufficient vapor.
2) Inexperienced ecig users. They likely had no idea what they were doing.

I would gladly volunteer for such a study using my PV and fluid of choice. I'm positive they would observe VERY different results.

 

[Vocalek]

Exactly what I was getting ready to post. His experiment was flawed because of several factors:

1) No discussion of the device used. It was probably inferior and not delivering sufficient vapor.
2) Inexperienced ecig users. They likely had no idea what they were doing.

I would gladly volunteer for such a study using my PV and fluid of choice. I'm positive they would observe VERY different results.

But are you willing to go to Richmond VA? http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...s-experienced-electronic-cigarette-users.html