Efficiency - Round vs Clapton

[untar]

different flavour notes have their own ideal temperature

I'd say that's not just an opinion but fact. Easy to verify with a single flavor juice and its sweet spot. With my builds and settings the ramp up time is so friggin short (especially with replay) I doubt it does much, I also get the notes over the whole drag, not just at the start. That's why I think it has to do with different temperatures inside the coil, which I of course can't prove

 

[untar]

Lemme add this image of a dry burn from our trusted fellow user Tralfaz

 

[Punk In Drublic]

Yes I knew different flavours have their ideal temperature as to when they get activated (for lack of better terminology) which what led me to this so called theory.

 

[papergoblin]

I transferred the round wire coil over to my mech and will run it until it starts loosing flavor. I have always been on the fence on which to use. I go back and forth all the time. Probably always will, keeps things interesting.

Did you use Kanthal for all wires? If so, I wonder what the difference would be with ni80 wraps on Kanthal core(s), if any.

Interesting test though, I rarely run Claptons, I prefer to just go parallel with 26 and 28. If I'm not just running a 26 contact coil.

 

[Zaryk]

Did you use Kanthal for all wires? If so, I wonder what the difference would be with ni80 wraps on Kanthal core(s), if any.

Interesting test though, I rarely run Claptons, I prefer to just go parallel with 26 and 28. If I'm not just running a 26 contact coil.

I used NI80. I will dig out some K1 and see if it makes a difference, but I don't have any high gauge to wrap a clapton, so it will just be round wire.

 

[papergoblin]

I used NI80. I will dig out some K1 and see if it makes a difference, but I don't have any high gauge to wrap a clapton, so it will just be round wire.

I imagine kanthal will be much worse on battery drain, just due to ramp up but wasn't sure what you had used.

 

[Zaryk]

Interesting. Thank you for the try, and the post. The real purpose of Clapton wires is to increase the ratio of surface area to volume; the additional heated wire mass is the penalty one must pay for the increase. FWIW, I tend to agree: I can't tell enough of a difference between a Clapton build and round wires to make to worth while to wrap a Clapton wire. I often, however, wrap twists. That gains, topologically, about 85% of the surface area boost of a Clapton (two wire 30ga twists vs 28ga single core wrapped with 40ga) in about 2/3rds of the wire mass. It also stiffens the coil a good bit-- that's why I do it-- so the coils last longer in use. I have one set that are over a year old. Just a thought...

I use my fused claptons mostly because they are stiffer as well. It makes my coil last for a long time since I don't damage it when rewicking. I use triple core 28 wrapped in 40. Ramp up doesn't suffer much at all with such fine wrap wire, or I would probably do twisted too. But my wire wrapping is really simple and easy, I use guide sliders I 3d printed and spin my core wires with a modified sewing machine.

 

[Zaryk]

I imagine kanthal will be much worse on battery drain, just due to ramp up but wasn't sure what you had used.

I have not. I will though. I just have not broke out my A1 for a while so it didn't occur to me.

 

[papergoblin]

I have not. I will though. I just have not broke out my A1 for a while so it didn't occur to me.

It's all I use (A1), so many friends switched to TC and gave me spool after spool of wire. I probably have at least a 5 year supply if not more, lol.

 

[Zaryk]

It's all I use (A1), so many friends switched to TC and gave me spool after spool of wire. I probably have at least a 5 year supply if not more, lol.

That's awesome. A lot of the guys around here run drop in coils so not many people I know even have wire, the few that do run ni80. But when I started rebuildables I got quite a bit of various types and sizes and still have a lot laying around.

When I do this test, should I try to match the ohms or the amount of wraps? Not sure which would yield more accurate results when comparing the two wires, but I am leaning towards wraps to match the coil mass.

 

[Zaryk]

Doing the same amount of wraps, but adjusted the wattage to match the voltage output of the lower ohm ni80 wire so it is drawing the same power from the battery. I think this will give the most accurate comparison.

 

[flavourchaser]

Scientific enough for me! I prefer round wire builds but not really due to battery life. I like the performance better. I've been using round wire single coils in rda's for a very long time. Every couple of weeks, I get bored and I make fused clapton wire. Sometimes it's fun....but the coils usually get pulled out within a day. I just don't like how they vape as much. They're good...but I think I like my vape a little mellower.

The results of your test are interesting....I would've expected a bigger difference as well. Thanks for posting that.

+1 I just use round wire in all my builds. I like the performance also. It's cheaper too.. YMMV

 

[papergoblin]

Doing the same amount of wraps, but adjusted the wattage to match the voltage output of the lower ohm ni80 wire so it is drawing the same power from the battery. I think this will give the most accurate comparison.

I think with A1, you're going to see that bigger difference you expected earlier.

That's awesome. A lot of the guys around here run drop in coils so not many people I know even have wire, the few that do run ni80. But when I started rebuildables I got quite a bit of various types and sizes and still have a lot laying around.

When I do this test, should I try to match the ohms or the amount of wraps? Not sure which would yield more accurate results when comparing the two wires, but I am leaning towards wraps to match the coil mass.

It would depend on how you want to measure, buy mass would give an equal comparison on efficiency of the metals, which could show whether A1 or NI80 works faster and/or if one retains heat better for secondary puffs.

If you go by same resistance and set the wattage to equal 3.7v or 4.2v, that would also help measure battery use, as one is going to, again, heat up faster but one may retain heat longer.

Either way should show which is more effective, I'm leaning NI80, that's just from personal experience from using both types of claptons.

 

[stols001]

I will just say I've had pretty inconsistent results with more exotic wires. Sometimes it has been great, sometimes awful. IDK. I think to get fantastic results with exotic wires you have to really know what you are doing. I'm MTL anyway, I'm usually fairly happy with a single round wire build.

Anna

 

[Zaryk]

Clapton cycles (voltage remaining in battery)
1- 3.66v
2- 3.62v
3- 3.65v
4- 3.64v
5- 3.61v

Round wire cycles (voltage remaining in battery)
1- 3.77v
2- 3.74v
3- 3.75v
4- 3.75v
5- 3.73v

Round wire- kanthal A1
1- 3.68
2- 3.66
3- 3.66
4- 3.70
5- 3.67

Not as efficient as the NI80 round, but very slightly more than the NI80 clapton.

 

[untar]

I've had pretty inconsistent results with more exotic wires

Most likely you had a hotspot in the inconsistent coil. Getting an oxide layer on is quite important as you can get a new hotspot while installing the wick and then there's no more dry burning or optical hint that there is one.
I'll say it still beats the old Genisis mesh wicks, those were a real pita to learn to set up consistently. In comparison setting up a fused contact clapton for TC is a cool breeze on a summer island.

Maybe you need an old school Genisis tank and some mesh

 

[Zakillah]

Doing the same amount of wraps, but adjusted the wattage to match the voltage output of the lower ohm ni80 wire so it is drawing the same power from the battery. I think this will give the most accurate comparison.

Not really. If you do the same amount of wraps, you should also keep the wattage the same.
The set wattage determines power draw, not the voltage.
Same sized coils will pretty much vape the same, regardless of material and resistance.

 

[Zaryk]

Not really. If you do the same amount of wraps, you should also keep the wattage the same.
The set wattage determines power draw, not the voltage.
Same sized coils will pretty much vape the same, regardless of material and resistance.

It's a little late now, lol.

I would then assume the kanthal performed the same or worse than the ni80 fused claptons, since it would have pulled more from the battery than with lower wattage that I used.

 

[Hoggy]

Interesting. Thank you for the try, and the post. The real purpose of Clapton wires is to increase the ratio of surface area to volume; the additional heated wire mass is the penalty one must pay for the increase. FWIW, I tend to agree: I can't tell enough of a difference between a Clapton build and round wires to make to worth while to wrap a Clapton wire. I often, however, wrap twists. That gains, topologically, about 85% of the surface area boost of a Clapton (two wire 30ga twists vs 28ga single core wrapped with 40ga) in about 2/3rds of the wire mass. It also stiffens the coil a good bit-- that's why I do it-- so the coils last longer in use. I have one set that are over a year old. Just a thought...

The real gain is with FUSED claptons - not single-core. I use rayon and used to only do twisteds.. With a single-core clapton, I don't notice any difference at all. However, after getting the Daedalus, I noticed that FUSED claptons had a significant flavor boost. (After all, I would never pay the often significant higher prices for pre-made exotics - so home-made was a must.)

I honestly can't see the point of single core claptons. My theory is that the big flavor boost with fused claptons is due to the literal juice channels within it. I also think that fused helps keep the juice in the [rayon] wick from burning, since what gets vaporized is the juice in the channels - possibly keeping more flavor intact.

 

[mcclintock]

Claptons have a higher ratio of surface area to mass, therefore a coil of ideal surface area should heat up faster and be more efficient. However, since they usually far exceed the ideal size, a simple round wire build of ideal size would beat their pants off. At 45 watts and taking a crude guess, the correct Clapton would be more like #44 over one strand of #28 vs. one strand of #26 for plain.

Same goes for Kanthal vs. Nichrome, Kanthal has less mass, the reputation of Ni for faster heating is based on mechs and unequal comparisons.