Efficiency - Round vs Clapton

[asmcriminal]

The forty gauge wrap is pretty insignificant. That's the issue. It's very small and has little mass and really doesn't much of it.

Morten Oen tests a lot of this stuff. Clapton vs Flat wire, thicker outer wrap vs thinner. He has air tunnel stimulations with stuff like this. He does do a series on efficiency. I forgot which videos they were. His videos are usually long too(~30min).

 

[Don29palms]

The forty gauge wrap is pretty insignificant. That's the issue. It's very small and has little mass and really doesn't much of it.

Morten Oen tests a lot of this stuff. Clapton vs Flat wire, thicker outer wrap vs thinner. He has air tunnel stimulations with stuff like this. He does do a series on efficiency. I forgot which videos they were. His videos are usually long too(~30min).

Morten Oen is a con man and his "experiments" are extremely flawed.

 

[asmcriminal]

Morten Oen is a con man and his "experiments" are extremely flawed.

What is flawed?

 

[dripster]

What is flawed?

Well I don't wick my coils as hard as Morten concluded we should be wicking them, as my own personal experience has taught me that's just wicked too hard so the juice doesn't wick into the coils fast enough, contrary to Morten's own personal findings. But staple staggered fused claptons (using 26g Kanthal A1 frames, .5×.1 Kanthal A1 ribbon, and 36g Nichrome 80), especially when these coils are still new, tend to give violent spitback that can be tamed by wicking them harder than most people would normally wick their coils, and can be tamed further by repeatedly dry firing them before the first use to shorten their break-in period so, for me, Morten's videos about how hard we should wick our coils are definitely not in line with what I have been experiencing. Whereas, as far as his videos about coil positioning in relation to airflow are concerned, I arrived at pretty much the same conclusion he did, and in fact I had already arrived at that conclusion more than several months before he started posting these videos, but I should add that the online persona of the guy you replied to is abrasive.

 

[r055co]

Claptons have a higher ratio of surface area to mass, therefore a coil of ideal surface area should heat up faster and be more efficient. However, since they usually far exceed the ideal size, a simple round wire build of ideal size would beat their pants off. At 45 watts and taking a crude guess, the correct Clapton would be more like #44 over one strand of #28 vs. one strand of #26 for plain.

Same goes for Kanthal vs. Nichrome, Kanthal has less mass, the reputation of Ni for faster heating is based on mechs and unequal comparisons.

Nope, when I'm in the mood for Tootie Puffers I'll spin up a 34x2/44 SS fused Clapton and it beats the pants off of single bare wire builds. The fused Clapton will act almost a wick in itself. As for efficiency, that all comes down to wire mass.

Sent from my HTC 10 using Tapatalk

 

[Don29palms]

What is flawed?

Just about everything he does especially when he discusses airflow.

 

[asmcriminal]

Well I don't wick my coils as hard as Morten concluded we should be wicking them, as my own personal experience has taught me that's just wicked too hard so the juice doesn't wick into the coils fast enough, contrary to Morten's own personal findings. But staple staggered fused claptons (using 26g Kanthal A1 frames, .5×.1 Kanthal A1 ribbon, and 36g Nichrome 80), especially when these coils are still new, tend to give violent spitback that can be tamed by wicking them harder than most people would normally wick their coils, and can be tamed further by repeatedly dry firing them before the first use to shorten their break-in period so, for me, Morten's videos about how hard we should wick our coils are definitely not in line with what I have been experiencing. Whereas, as far as his videos about coil positioning in relation to airflow are concerned, I arrived at pretty much the same conclusion he did, and in fact I had already arrived at that conclusion more than several months before he started posting these videos, but I should add that the online persona of the guy you replied to is abrasive.

In regards to the guy, I quoted. I do have a scientific background and I know how experiments and studies work and their flaws. So I was just curious about what he was going to say. ha

Regardless, I came to the conclusion about wicking tighter just like Morten did. I came to that conclusion before I saw the video. It does help with spit back. It also holds more juice. At first, I thought looser wicking would have a greater capillary effect(It's not really capillary). But one of the main concerns with spit back is air pockets that contain juice.

You calim to have a diffrent experience than what Morten's video show. I wonder what is causing that difference. Don't get me wrong, I did call him out on something that wasn't right. We started to discuss it and then he just ignored me.

 

[Hoggy]

I
Regardless, I came to the conclusion about wicking tighter just like Morten did. I came to that conclusion before I saw the video. It does help with spit back. It also holds more juice. At first, I thought looser wicking would have a greater capillary effect(It's not really capillary). But one of the main concerns with spit back is air pockets that contain juice.

Yeah, regular cotton tends to act more by way of osmosis. In contrast, rayon acts with more capillary/pipe type of action. But I would think wicking 'hard' is for rayon only, where the fibers shrink when wetted - as opposed to cotton, which expands.

As far as the surface area of claptons... I think there's more going on than just strictly surface area when it comes to fused claptons. My presumption is that it has to do with the juice channels that form.
As I might have said, I use rayon exclusively. And with rayon, I didn't notice any difference in flavor between a regular round wire and a single-core clapton. But that changed dramatically when I started into the fused clapton route. So that's why I think there's more than simple surface area going on.

 

[dripster]

In regards to the guy, I quoted. I do have a scientific background and I know how experiments and studies work and their flaws. So I was just curious about what he was going to say. ha

Regardless, I came to the conclusion about wicking tighter just like Morten did. I came to that conclusion before I saw the video. It does help with spit back. It also holds more juice. At first, I thought looser wicking would have a greater capillary effect(It's not really capillary). But one of the main concerns with spit back is air pockets that contain juice.

You calim to have a diffrent experience than what Morten's video show. I wonder what is causing that difference. Don't get me wrong, I did call him out on something that wasn't right. We started to discuss it and then he just ignored me.

Yeah. My background is scientific also, and I know the effect you are referring to is called adsorption. Packing more cotton fibers into the coil increases the total surface area of the fibers on which the adsorption occurs, but the greater viscosity of high VG juices and the greater flow resistivity of very densely packed fibers work in tandem to create an opposing force that impedes the rate of flow if the cotton was compressed too hard inside the coil. Even so, the resulting flow rate might still be fast enough to keep up with the evaporation rate you get from your coils and how you prefer to vape on them of course, i.e. faster flow only becomes feasible if the vapor feels a bit on the dry side and you, like me, are a high wattage vaper who is systemically loathed by the MTL terrorist group.

 

[asmcriminal]

Yeah. My background is scientific also, and I know the effect you are referring to is called adsorption. Packing more cotton fibers into the coil increases the total surface area of the fibers on which the adsorption occurs, but the greater viscosity of high VG juices and the greater flow resistivity of very densely packed fibers work in tandem to create an opposing force that impedes the rate of flow if the cotton was compressed too hard inside the coil. Even so, the resulting flow rate might still be fast enough to keep up with the evaporation rate you get from your coils and how you prefer to vape on them of course, i.e. faster flow only becomes feasible if the vapor feels a bit on the dry side and you, like me, are a high wattage vaper who is systemically loathed by the MTL terrorist group.

ha, I am starting to become an MTL terrorist. But yes, the difference between you and I might just boil down to the viscosity of the e-juice.

 

[dripster]

ha, I am starting to become an MTL terrorist. But yes, the difference between you and I might just boil down to the viscosity of the e-juice.

The coil diameter and length, the total surface area of the coil, and the wattage you vape also all play a part. I usually vape on a relatively small .11 ohms dual coil build (aliens, 27/36 Ni80 at 4.5 wraps and 2.5mm ID) with a single battery mech so the juice evaporates a lot faster when compared to low or medium wattage vaping styles, and that's why the juice flow resistivity needs to be a tad lower to avoid getting semi dry hits, therefore I don't wick my coils as hard as I possibly can (i.e. my coils don't move back and forth as I pull on the cotton and I let go of the tension after that; the cotton still slides through with relative ease despite there is a reasonable amount of grip that I can feel whilst I pull my cotton through my coils, and I gently wiggle my wicks back and forth just a very tiny little bit to evenly disperse/relax the pressure on the specific portions that are located on the inside of my coils). Whereas if the Cotton Bacon Prime that I use to wick my coils is not compressed hard enough on the inside of my coils (and especially if my coil positioning in cohort with my airflow adjustment aren't delivering adequate cooling to my coils), then the high power tends to just burn my wicks in half because then the reduced adsorption becomes the limiting factor so IMO using your own personal experience gained through just trial and error usually always works better than anything.

 

[stols001]

Dripster, I am a MTL vaper and I don't loathe you, or at the very rock bottom, not for being a DL vaper. Some of my favorite vapors on here are DL, and I get along fine with them.

It's when you go into... .whatever you want to call it mode, that maybe some antipathy develops. But I promise you it's not the way you vape.


Anna

 

[dripster]

Dripster, I am a MTL vaper and I don't loathe you, or at the very rock bottom, not for being a DL vaper. Some of my favorite vapors on here are DL, and I get along fine with them.

It's when you go into... .whatever you want to call it mode, that maybe some antipathy develops. But I promise you it's not the way you vape.


Anna

I already know not all MTL or low wattage vapers loathe the way I vape. Where there's no sarcasm, there can be no science.

As for the mode I go into, it used to be wattage mode. But nowadays it's usually the kind of tube mode that attracts exclamations such as "The amps!"

 

[Canadian_Vaper]

It's not about efficiency because if it was there would be many very unhappy woman out there lmao...