Establishments Banning E-Cigs - 2 reasons

[Rocketpunk]

Rules and submission. Got'cha.

When you're in Wal-Mart, ya can't do it. It's against their rules. Argue rules and submission and compulsion of non-aggressive behavior to the night-shift manager as you're blowing clouds.

Outside in God's green earth, do what thou wilt. On private property, you must stick to their rules. Because that's how things work in our society.

Let's say someone is hypothetically a vegan, and they open a vegan restaurant, and all of a sudden a bunch of college frat boys comes in and act loudly and start eating double mccheeseburgers but still order food from the vegan menu. They're smoshin' away on those big beef burgers, but they're still eating the tofu. Their behavior offends the vegan owner. The owner asks them to leave. "It's just beef, gosh, get over it, we're still buying your tofu," and then the owner tells them their behavior offends him/her. The owner points out that it's a vegan establishment, and then asks the frat boys to leave (as per their right as the owner), and the frat boys raise a huge stink and make a scene as they leave... This is acceptable behavior? Is that the point you want to make?

It's a little bit a stretch, but not too much of one. You know I don't mean it literally. Read into the subtext.

I broke my rule again!

And I think I'm mixing my metaphors... wait... err... Grammar sucks tonight. Sorry.

 

[MacTechVpr]

You're polluting my reasonable argument with an exception.

Private property is private property and to violate it would be an aggressive act.

That is clearly not what I proposed. Rather an argument against submission to erroneous individual or public perception.

We as vapers should not fall into the same traps that have been used in the cigarette smoking debacle as regards the "public welfare". Precisely these conflate public and private property interests in the public policy arena for political reasons. At the end of the day statists and those enamored of compulsion love "equality".

There is no consent to be compelled. Not by me. Why should I merely concede it? Eventually I may have to. Rationalizations and arbitrary equivalence will get us there. A death by a thousand cuts of Bloomberg-isms.

Here's what community really is — doing our part to inform and educate anyone and everyone we encounter as to the facts as they can be best ascertained. That does us all good.

Be a zealot when it comes to your individual liberty.

 

[Rocketpunk]

I am humbled at your use of the English language.

So, what you're saying is......... Not sure what you're saying. I'm sure it's because my mind is dull.

What I was saying: public public or places that say it's ok, vape away. Private property that says no, you have to follow the rules.

I don't think you have to don a Guy Fawkes mask or quote college notes to understand what I'm saying, not "polluting".

Props on your flowery use of prose.

 

[Topwater Elvis]

Damn the establishments,,, save the tacos.

 

[Rocketpunk]

I think we just met our first Dennis Miller of the ECF.

 

[Talyon]

I don't care how much, subtext or debacle or conflated erroneous masks you put on it, I'm still not eating the Tofu.

vape On! Always obey rules. Well most of them.......

 

[Rocketpunk]

Tofu, when stir-fried correctly, can actually be good. Ya just gotta tuck in your Ron Swanson mangut and try it. ;-)

 

[MacTechVpr]

Love it!

 

[Racehorse]

They are all over ruled by busy body Nannyisms.

I say we get busy and NANNYISM right back.

In other words, become the very thing you say you renounce and abhor?

I can't go with that, personally.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Hey look, I've heard all these false dilemma's before based on the social responsibility premise. vaping is too important for too many people their health and sanity to fall prey to political opportunism. That's what were faced with here. If we behave as Americans have behaved in the past century, it will be decided for us.

So really I'm only suggesting we become more individually active. I'm not a big joiner. Call it collective thinking on this subject. Pay it forward. Educate a friend.

For my part I vape everywhere. Openly and exuberantly. Offer and explain my behavior proudly. However, I do take note if others are intimidated or whatever. I avoid exposing children. I don't challenge people's space. But I am flagrant and relaxed with it. I own my space until I'm convinced it's right that it should be otherwise.

You know, I've but once been challenged. And I frequent just about every type of establishment and business mentioned here.

It happened in of all places a wholesale tire distributor, a garage. I was informed "no smoking allowed", company policy. The sad part for me was observing his boss in a cubicle in the corner of the showroom tuggin' on a cigar. You see, that troubles me. Kinda makes you scratch your head about that individual, not his boss.

Just sayin'. It's no one's right to make us cower.

 

[MrStik]

I think you do actually live in the vaping capital of the world though...

SoCal seems to have a large population of just about everything... Ill-mannered vapists as well...

Here is my take. If I open up a restaurant, as an avid fan of vaping, I will make it a no vape establishment. I will do so for bottomline reasons. I will make more money. My non-smoking guests will be treated to a smoke and vape free environment. My smoking customers will go about life as normal. My courteous vaping customers will enjoy the same ambiance as the rest of the guests and will vape when they are not on the property. And for those who are rabid about their right to vape, they can, just not anywhere that I prohibit it. And if they do not like that, then too bad, go somewhere else. It's just business.

And if I were to open any other type of establishments, I will have a vape section that is indoors for those who want to vape. Still just business.

 

[Chas F.]

Yup, that's the kind of thing I thought might be happening. This could of course be used by both sides to skew the results. I tried to vote again today, but it still remembered I had voted a while back. Certainly takes credibility from the numbers.

Yes, there are ways to vote more than once but is it worth it?

 

[danca90]

Sometimes clashing smells are rude. If you go in a coffee shop, and can only smell banana nut bread juice, that's simply not good for business.

 

[Chas F.]

SoCal seems to have a large population of just about everything... Ill-mannered vapists as well...

Here is my take. If I open up a restaurant, as an avid fan of vaping, I will make it a no vape establishment. I will do so for bottomline reasons. I will make more money. My non-smoking guests will be treated to a smoke and vape free environment. My smoking customers will go about life as normal. My courteous vaping customers will enjoy the same ambiance as the rest of the guests and will vape when they are not on the property. And for those who are rabid about their right to vape, they can, just not anywhere that I prohibit it. And if they do not like that, then too bad, go somewhere else. It's just business.

And if I were to open any other type of establishments, I will have a vape section that is indoors for those who want to vape. Still just business.

That's all fine and dandy...because YOU made the decision. Not some nanny state politician. The problem I see is that the business owners of coffee shops, restaurants, bars etc are prohibited from allowing vaping on their own property because someone else thought it was a bad idea. As far as I'm concerned if a business allows behavior I don't like, they won't get my custom.

As stated above by MacTechVpr, be a zealot when it comes to your individual liberty.

I may use that as a sig line.

 

[MacTechVpr]

As stated above by MacTechVpr, be a zealot when it comes to your individual liberty.

Thanks for the ack. My thoughts exactly as I read your post. We're going to need a heck of a lot of professionals and business owners holding the line this time around. There is powerful $$$ in the lost tax revenues from people quitting to vape. A tsunami. It's coming and it will be here sooner than people know. We need to get our sh•t together on this one right quick. Thanks.

 

[Rocketpunk]

Round and round and round we go.

I'm not sure Bruce Willis is getting the picture. I'm all down for standing up for vapers' rights, but vaping "willy nilly" (to use vernacular, if I'm allowed) in places where there is no vaping/smoking allowed isn't standing up for vapers' rights, it's breaking the rules of said establishment and making us all look bad.

You're not getting what I'm saying, MacTechVpr. I'm agreeing with you 100% percent when it comes to standing up for our rights, but when you're vaping in an establishment that strictly prohibits vaping/smoking, you can't. Am I not making sense?

Why are you making this into some sort of overreaching political THING when all it is is a simple "abide by the rules"? This isn't society smashing its boot heel on freedom. You can, and you can't. It applies to all things. Your sweeping rhetoric is impressive, but what EXACTLY do you mean? Make it understandable for us "plebes". No need to maintain an air of affectation around here, we're only swayed by prose so much before it loses it's "oomph".

 

[MacTechVpr]

I'm not sure Bruce Willis is getting the picture. I'm all down for standing up for vapers' rights, but vaping "willy nilly" (to use vernacular, if I'm allowed) in places where there is no vaping/smoking allowed isn't standing up for vapers' rights, it's breaking the rules of said establishment and making us all look bad.

I'm not proposing vaping as activism. I don't know if you are making a clever argument or truly misconstrue. Fact is that is not what I'm saying.

I'm saying confident public demonstration is advocacy. Where preemptive retreat accomplishes absolutely nothing. And it certainly won't protect your right or pocketbook when lost cigarette taxes have to be recovered. It will affect all of us.

You assert your right. Let them assert theirs, if they so wish.

Who wins? My bet is on the individual in the long run...if he makes his presence known.

The best approach is the individual. I don't believe this time that this issue will be well served by the same manner it was created, i.e. institutions, or institutional thinking. It's going to take the dedication of individuals willing to inform themselves first and foremost, to better educate others. And to have the audacity to do so secure in themselves and their own rights.

That doesn't deprive anybody of their rights or interfere in their lives.

Nobody "rules" you, lest you let 'em.

 

[Rocketpunk]

I honestly can't tell from your posts what the heck kind of stance you're taking, because your legalese bends your prose. Maybe bring yourself to a plebe level and not please yourself with wordiness.

It seems to me like we're agreeing on the same thing but you're ....ing your prose to make yourself sound legit and supersmart. Speak plebe. If that's not beneath you.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I'll make it "Being Free 101" here. You're not steppin' on anybody by being yourself. You give yourself the chance to make the case that you might be right...might have a point, a reason, have a right yourself.

You don't, you lose. Before you even started. Simple.

Vape gear wont help much when vapin' costs twice what analogs did.

And that day could be here sooner than you think.

Enjoy it while you can.

 

[MacTechVpr]

"The sexiest part of a woman is between her ears and the prettiest thing she can wear is a smile".

Great tag line of your own.