EVENT ALERT - Court Hearing on E-Cigarettes [8/17] // Ruling Could Determine Fate of Controversial Nicotine Product

[Applejackson]

Just remember, guys - ASH is trolling THIS website for some of its source material - in the ASH warning, they cited us as the link....

And, unfortunately, the rat fiends are using the ...... thing pretty much as a rallying cry -

We need to be careful, people - this site could be the downfall of e-cigs - any information (or mis-information) posted should be considered public information, and easily obtained by those arrayed against us.

There's nothing you or we can do about that. Would you rather have a forum where everyone is afraid to say anything? ASH is going to find their ammo wherever they can. If not here, then they'll find it somewhere else. If we stifle our words, then the terrorists win. The ...... thing is as pointless an argument as "We need to ban tobacco pipes and rolling papers because they can be used to smoke marijuana".

 

[Vicks Vap-oh-Yeah]

There's nothing you or we can do about that. Would you rather have a forum where everyone is afraid to say anything? ASH is going to find their ammo wherever they can. If not here, then they'll find it somewhere else. If we stifle our words, then the terrorists win. The ...... thing is as pointless an argument as "We need to ban tobacco pipes and rolling papers because they can be used to smoke marijuana".

No, I'm not advocating silence - that would effectively kill the best source of information that there is on the E-Cig... and we'd then have allowed ASH and their like the victory they're pushing for.

I'm just mentioning this as a reminder - that even something taken in gest could be used out of context against us... or something said here as a great tip could be used to further their cause....

A prime example: Spikey's fight in her home state - the lawmakers trolled the forum and started re-writing the legislation to counter what was discussed in open forum.

 

[Applejackson]

No, I'm not advocating silence - that would effectively kill the best source of information that there is on the E-Cig... and we'd then have allowed ASH and their like the victory they're pushing for.

I'm just mentioning this as a reminder - that even something taken in gest could be used out of context against us... or something said here as a great tip could be used to further their cause....

A prime example: Spikey's fight in her home state - the lawmakers trolled the forum and started re-writing the legislation to counter what was discussed in open forum.

So... what do you suggest? Or are you just letting people know that their words can and will be used against them in a court of law?

I live in Spikey's home state incidentally, but the battle seems to be isolated in her area--no one even seems to know what an e-cig is in here in Albany. Which is good, considering this is where the state laws are made.

 

[sherid]

Other than sensationalism, the claim that e cigs could be used to deliver ...... is a crock. A water glass is a drug delivery device for ....... Those glass tubes with a rose that they sell at gas stations are used as crack pipes. ...... is marketed to children via those endless commercials on prime time tv. If a company is selling ...... illegally, arrest them for drug trafficking. ASH is desperate. E cigs present threats to them on many grounds. The first is financial since ASH relies upon smokers for funding of their very non-profit organization. Without smokers, there is no need for ASH, and ASH is very wealthy indeed. Then, back to "the children" again. Are those the same children who can go into the gas station and buy Nicorette gum in fruity flavors, teeth whitening varieties, cinnamon, etc. WITHOUT age restriction? Recall the recent case in the UK where ASH passed out Nicorette gum to middle schoolers and a 14 year old nearly died of overdose. ASH cannot stand e cigs for financial reasons and then simply because the e cig looks like smoking. Somewhere, somehow there is justice for ASH and all the ruin they have brought to society, to private business, to families, and now to e cigs. Every fascist one day pays the price. It cannot come soon enough for ASH.

 

[DaMulta]

What if kids swallow cigarette butts? Yet, or chew on a pack of them?

 

[sherid]

No, I'm not advocating silence - that would effectively kill the best source of information that there is on the E-Cig... and we'd then have allowed ASH and their like the victory they're pushing for.

I'm just mentioning this as a reminder - that even something taken in gest could be used out of context against us... or something said here as a great tip could be used to further their cause....

A prime example: Spikey's fight in her home state - the lawmakers trolled the forum and started re-writing the legislation to counter what was discussed in open forum.

That would be censorship and that is exactly what they want. A free exchange of ideas is extremely threatening to fascists, and make no mistake, ASH is a fascist organization. They want to intimidate us shut us up. That's how censorship works.

 

[Applejackson]

Other than sensationalism, the claim that e cigs could be used to deliver ...... is a crock. A water glass is a drug delivery device for ....... Those glass tubes with a rose that they sell at gas stations are used as crack pipes. ...... is marketed to children via those endless commercials on prime time tv. If a company is selling ...... illegally, arrest them for drug trafficking. ASH is desperate. E cigs present threats to them on many grounds. The first is financial since ASH relies upon smokers for funding of their very non-profit organization. Without smokers, there is no need for ASH, and ASH is very wealthy indeed. Then, back to "the children" again. Are those the same children who can go into the gas station and buy Nicorette gum in fruity flavors, teeth whitening varieties, cinnamon, etc. WITHOUT age restriction? Recall the recent case in the UK where ASH passed out Nicorette gum to middle schoolers and a 14 year old nearly died of overdose. ASH cannot stand e cigs for financial reasons and then simply because the e cig looks like smoking. Somewhere, somehow there is justice for ASH and all the ruin they have brought to society, to private business, to families, and now to e cigs. Every fascist one day pays the price. It cannot come soon enough for ASH.

Just to clarify, ASH isn't who gave that kid Nicorette. It was given to one student by a school counselor who then shared it with his classmate who idiotically chewed a ridiculous amount of the gum. I don't think this argument helps our cause and kinda wish people would stop bringing it up because I actually think it can easily be spun to be used against us.

ASH still sucks though.

 

[sherid]

Just to clarify, ASH isn't who gave that kid Nicorette. It was given to one student by a school counselor who then shared it with his classmate who idiotically chewed a ridiculous amount of the gum. I don't think this argument helps our cause and kinda wish people would stop bringing it up because I actually think it can easily be spun to be used against us.

ASH still sucks though.

Sorry, but ASH and its splinter groups provided the gum to the school, so they were the provider. How is the kid idiotically chewing too much gum any different from a kid idiotically drinking liquid nicotine? That's what kids do. How would that argument be spun against us?

 

[jen28f]

I would love to have a custom liquid with all my meds in it! Just think, anything that you already take anyway could be added to your liquid and you could vape it instead of having to remember to take stuff....birth control, blood pressure meds, vitamins, etc. I hate taking pills and usually gag....or forget. This would be a cool invention if doctors/big pharma could do it.

 

[paise]

This isn't just about "big tobacco." It was noticeable when laws against smoking began, that I speculated that the drug industry wanted to get in on the dollars. Not long after, various drugs came out to replace smoking (not only nicotine patches and such, but "mind drugs" as well.)

The "legal" drug cartel has even more funds to push than the tobacco folks. The price increases of cigarettes is substantially taxes. In reading the actual bills that were being pushed, much of the funds were intended to be spent "researching" mind-drugs on infants. (The ad campaigns to voters were that the funds were to be used for anti-smoking directed at kids. That was a drop in the bucket. Sneaky devils, aren't they?)

The main reason I decided to try e-cigs is that it was a BIG protest against yet another tax hit on cigarettes going someplace other than where it was being touted.

So keep your eyes open, write to your "leaders". The drug companies just want a cut of the pie. They won't likely rest until everything has a tag on it that goes to them. Listen to the drug ads on TV - not the "pitch" but the warnings and side effects. Most of the side effects are much worse than the "ill" the drug is promoted to handle. The drug industry is a multi-multi-multi billion dollar outfit. Do we really think that a bunch of thugs dreamed up the processes to manufacture street drugs? Yeah, I can see it now.

Big bucks against our little crowd of e-cig folks. When I found this forum, I was really suprised at how big a group this was - globally. Clearly, it's big enough to put a dent in someone corporate pocket books!

Makes ya feel like we are boot-leggers in the prohibition era, doesn't it?

Look at how many of those DRUG ADVERTISEMENTS come on during the times when children are watching their children television shows? Is this not illegal and sporting THEIR drugs toward children?

My daughter, my 12yo daughter knows what the hell ...... is and what it's used for if you can believe it! Now that's the pharmaceutical company at it's best. It came on between the episodes of one of her family/children sitcomes, I forget which right now because I was so ...... off that the commercial came on during children viewing time that I became unglued at the hinges. The audacity of the drug companies! The sheer and utter audacity of them! They are worse than the war-whores. They are money-whores. They can't get the tax dollars out of us on cigarettes or generic drugs so they'll come after our e-cigarettes and try to knock us back to the stone ages to get their money draining all our money dry.

What nerve, what F-ing gall.

 

[sherid]

Look at how many of those DRUG ADVERTISEMENTS come on during the times when children are watching their children television shows? Is this not illegal and sporting THEIR drugs toward children?

My daughter, my 12yo daughter knows what the hell ...... is and what it's used for if you can believe it! Now that's the pharmaceutical company at it's best. It came on between the episodes of one of her family/children sitcomes, I forget which right now because I was so ...... off that the commercial came on during children viewing time that I became unglued at the hinges. The audacity of the drug companies! The sheer and utter audacity of them! They are worse than the war-whores. They are money-whores. They can't get the tax dollars out of us on cigarettes or generic drugs so they'll come after our e-cigarettes and try to knock us back to the stone ages to get their money draining all our money dry.

What nerve, what F-ing gall.

Agreed, but that is the nature of ASH. The only possible good that can come from this is that people other than us are looking more closely at ASH. Perhaps they will be exposed. Eventually, they will be, but eventually can be a long time. Now is better.

 

[Straykat]

Oddly, the predominate take-away I got from reading the above comes from Sun's concern, in the third post, that the ECA is something of a no-show to this party. I may be entirely wrong but if the ECA is doing so much on our behalf behind the scenes, now would be the time to communicate with the e-cig community. We need to be working as a team.

 

[Smiley05]

My dad wanted to post a video, unfortunately he can't reply for 3 more days. He told me to tell you to do a Google video search on "Professor John F. Banzhaf III".

He has not been a very happy camper reading the news lately. Even the dog won't go near him.

 

[markarich159]

This is how this ambulance chaser Banzhaf makes his living(and it's also why all lawyers should be at the bottom of the ocean). First it was Tobacco ad's, then "public smoking", then Fast Food making people fat, then snack machines in schools making kids fat, now it's back to smoking(well vaping). He seems to have forgotten that , in America, as long as your not harming anyone else, you have the right to do whatever you want. But I guess he has a captive audience in a country that is putting persons suffering from terminal stage MS in jail for smoking a joint.

 

[Debbie Lee]

This is not a valid argument and doesn’t even make sense. If someone is dispensing prescription drugs without a prescription, that in itself is a crime and is already punishable.

Its like saying applesauce has the potential to have medications added, so let’s outlaw applesauce. Lotion could possibly contain transdermal drugs, so no more Nivea. Potentially lethal amounts of electricity come into our homes…wow that could take anyone out. I have heard that bongs have the potential for misuse, but they’re ok because they’re labeled ‘for tobacco use only’. Whew, sure glad they have that label on there…I’ll bet it has saved millions of lives.

Name one substance that does not have the potential to be lethal. Too much water can kill you. People have died because the FDA has failed to protect our food chain, but I think that green onions and hamburgers are still available.

I always go back to the caffeine energy drinks. Kids HAVE died from those, but because they contain B vitamins, they’re exempt from regulation. I still say throwing a handful of vitamins into a liquid that just happens to contain nicotine (ala caffeine) would solve half the problem. Then, if I just found it impossible to swallow those big, giant vitamins pills, how could they withhold the only ‘device’ that allows me to receive my government established RDA?

Then we’d need Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton to protect our civil rights.

yeah this whole thing is pissing me off so much. What about the pill to help us stop smoking ( Chantix) it's killing people or causing them to commit suicide. I hope this is over soon. Corperate whores. They need to realize we will fight to the end for our right to vape and not smoke analog cancer causing full of over 400 chemical cigs. god I'm so frikkin mad. :evil

 

[Debbie Lee]

who the f&*( is ash anyway...

 

[Debbie Lee]

By the way Is anyone fighting this for us. ?Do we have any lawyer's on our side and any Suppliers. ? I don't know the proper means of going about getting a class action law suit against The FDA or ASh. So what is being done about this.? Just wondering.


WTF!!!!!!! These are such a safer way of getting nic. in our systems.

 

[a2dcovert]

Well, I've said before that truth and justice will play no part in our struggle. Doctors have for many years used " [FONT="]Nebulizers [/FONT]", to deliver medication using PG as the vehicle. Those who own these devices could also put whatever they desire into the liquid.

Everything can be abused and used for the wrong purpose. This issue doesn't want to deal with the truth.

K

 

[Sun Vaporer]

who the f&*( is ash anyway...

Debbie--ASH descibes themselves like this in their Brief:

"Action on Smoking and Health (ASH) is a national scientific and educational tax-exempt antismoking organization which has been involved for more than thirty years with the legal issues of nicotine, FDA regulation of nicotine and nicotine-delivery devices, and related topics."


Just another way of saying anti-smoking group.


Sun

 

[Debbie Lee]

Debbie--ASH descibes themselves like this in their Brief:

"Action on Smoking and Health (ASH) is a national scientific and educational tax-exempt antismoking organization which has been involved for more than thirty years with the legal issues of nicotine, FDA regulation of nicotine and nicotine-delivery devices, and related topics."


Just another way of saying anti-smoking group.


Sun

k thx do we have anyone helping us fight against all this nonsence