"Fake" vapors rant
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I didn't agree with your conclusion, but I also didn't think you were advocating that dual users should be tarred and feathered, either. I took your observation as just a frustration that more people in your local vicinity have not realized the full advantage of vaping. I also would like to see everyone who smokes switch completely to vaping. It would be better for them and better for the growth of the community.
Sometimes I wonder how the posters of threads such as this manage to be surprised that when they post a rant about people who may very well be part of the community that they are ranting to, the thread gets contentious.
I smoke and vape, and I don't particularly care if anyone finds that simple fact to be annoying for some strange reason. I vape to reduce my smoking, and I'm happy enough with that.
I smoke and vape, and I don't particularly care if anyone finds that simple fact to be annoying for some strange reason. I vape to reduce my smoking, and I'm happy enough with that.
only read a few posts in this thread and my opinion is we still need smokers. If everyone quit smoking all that tobacco tax would be gone from the government and where would they look to replace it? Us vapours perhaps? Can only tax alcohol and gasoline so much. CHEERS!
WOW, talk 'bout flippin' da turtle on it's back! Hopefully you're not serious. Day-um, musta missed da sarcasm emoticon...
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My first ecig kit was bought to do the same thing OP's coworkers are doing. So I could "smoke" in non-smoking areas (bars mostly), then continue to smoke my normal 1.5-2 packs a day like I always did. I had no desire to quit smoking. However, I did end up quitting after my first puff of an ecig but that is beside the point. If this is what they choose to do, then I have trouble seeing what the problem is.
Sorry, no sarcasm this time.
What I read is that more than a few dual users at work are being show offs, then I read about the FDA jumping in and about freezing supplies.
After 5 years, the FDA has finally bowed down to the outcry of the media, politicians and the usual uninformed.
This is a "forum". People should debate how they like.
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KODIAK;13296535 said:If you ask my brother, vapors are still smokers.Says we just traded one habit for another. Poor misguided dumbass. He is living proof why moms shouldn't smoke during pregnancy
I really enjoyed that one, thanks!
Not only do I not feel bad as a dual user, I feel pride and at peace.
Today I bought a pack of smokes. My 6th pack of 2014. Moderate smoking rocks. I wish it for many current smokers, as it rocks that much. If current smoker wishes to cease smoking, I respect that and honor that decision. But being made to feel like you have to quit or something is dreadfully wrong is microcosm of what we are up against. The shaming, guilting and control of adult choices to take the risk and enjoy the freedom, is so far overboard, it fills me with pride to not detach completely (and righteously) from those evil doers, er I mean, smokers.
Growing up, with both parents being smokers, and in a world where smoking indoors was still permissible, and second hand smoke wasn't treated as leading to possible extinction of humanity, I had ZERO exposure to moderate smokers/smoking. It was all hard core users, people who were okay with abusing. IOW, the norm. Over the next 20 years or so, I saw a small handful of people who somehow, magically, were able to smoke periodically, while vast majority were abusive with their smoking habits, myself include. When that amount of abuse is allowed to exist and be deemed the norm, it is little wonder that we live in a world where 'smoking kills' is propped up as inherent problem with smoking. At same time, when I quit cold turkey and then returned to smoking, I wasn't in the dark, nor did I choose to ignore the pros that exist with a habit/full addiction to smoking. And it disgusts me that this is so far downplayed to the point where it is challenging or socially gauche, even today, to talk in that vein. "How dare you speak aloud of smoking as if there are merits to that dirty disgusting habit." IMO, as long as those pros are downplayed, there will be a societal problem with smoking and impact on public health due to this deception that is nearly as bad, though going in opposite direction, as what BT tried to do with (or to) the public.
Kids or young new smokers get to discover the pros on their own, while wading through the deception and finding a balance between the over hyped cons and suitable usage that does, in fact, work for them. Varies by individual, while the hook or addiction remains generally the same. The shaming and constant public pressure to quit remains about the exact same.
Enter vaping.
Where reduction is so easily obtained, and moderation so easy to abide by, that it undoes at least some of the cons, and sucks the wind out of the sails of shaming. It allows for many, though not all, of the same benefits that an ex-smoker enjoys. The better health. The increase in finances. The erasure of constant cravings. The peace of mind that comes from liberation of being hooked/addicted to smoking.
And yet the shaming persists. Especially from ex-smokers. For almost no reason other than, "I quit, so should you." So so glad I wasn't like this when I went cold turkey.
I take pride in still smoking a) because moderation really does rock and b) because I'd really rather not detach from camp smoker in such a callous or shallow way. I'd really rather not become the zealot that I loathed as an abusive smoker and that I disdained when I went cold turkey, and which now seems like it is so socially accepted that I pity those stuck in that way of thinking.
In my honest and reasoned opinion, the incessant call for smoking cessation as the only (good) path is spoiling the cause for vaping. It takes away from harm reduction and feeds the mentality that thinks prohibition has a place. While seemingly ignoring the idea that they will (or we will) one day seek the same from vapers. "Why don't you quit already?" "Do you not have any self control?" What's wrong with you that makes your feel your habit is not imposing on others?" The constant attempt to suck the wind out of the pros of vaping. The enjoyment. The liberation.
Dual users are no more in a transitional phase than the rest of society is with regards to vaping vs. smoking. Yet, dual users realize that vaping is an alternative. A wise alternative. A helpful alternative. And an enjoyable alternative.
How can you see it as an alternative when you've sworn off smoking and express contempt or shame for what the other alternative is, namely smoking? Cessation for some (vapers) often appears as an abandonment rather than alternative. And politically, it shows up as similar in message to precisely what ANTZ is aiming for, yet failing at for around year 57 now. You have to want to stay quit for cessation to truly work, yet when you want others to stay quit for cessation to be realized, it crosses a dangerous ethical and political line that looks a lot like propaganda and control.
Vaping, as a communal enterprise doesn't need this. Quit because your personal choice desires as much. Rejoice at your new found liberation. Share your story so others may follow in your footsteps as may be their desire. But advocate for cessation to those who haven't indicated that desire, and let me/us know how you rationalize away the fact that you appear to stand side by side with opposition?
Do I think you are ANTZ if you advocate cessation from smoking via vaping? Not really, though the sentiment can appear that way. Many vapers, who have quit smoking, do express honor and kinship with those who engage in reduction and thus appear to get harm reduction without needing to make it about abandonment.
Anyway, that's the short version of my counter rant that seems relevant to this thread.
We smoke in the office, theres only 2 of us who vape. I mainly just vape, the other pretty much do both simultaneously.
I used to smoke like him, now who am I to say he's a fake? Should I just tell him "decide already..., either vape or smoke" then he choose smoke....
Then what?
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I used to smoke like him, now who am I to say he's a fake? Should I just tell him "decide already..., either vape or smoke" then he choose smoke....
Then what?
Sent from my GT-I9500 using Tapatalk
Well ranted Jman8! I used to love smoking. First a pipe, then pipes and cigars and then cigarettes until finally before vaping, cigarettes and pipes. It took me 5 years to quit cigs until vaping entered the picture. Then it was just two weeks. Shaming smokers won't work, the delicious taste of a quality vape will. Though I will disagree with you on a "moderate smoke rocks" Yes, I still get cravings occasionally but a quick reminder of how bad my fingers stunk reminds me why I quit.
I respect your well-reasoned and explained position, though I can't say I necessarily agree with *all* of it, unlike most of the other things you post. For me, there is no such thing as moderate smoking, as there was no such thing as moderate drinking -- I may not drink or use even more dangerous substances any longer, but I'm still an addict, and to put it in terms of the greatest quote ever from the old show "House," "I'm an addict -- I have to find something that I can turn up to 11 and not destroy my brain (life, health, etc)". I do feel, as you said "LIBERATED!" Freed from smokers' prison. It's very hard if not impossible for me to understand why anyone wouldn't want liberation; from your remarks it would seem as if you do feel liberated, at least from the constant NEED to smoke, but that sort of liberation, to me, seems like jail with weekend passes.
However you do make very valid points about intolerant vapers being very closely akin to intolerant ANTZ, and I will take that under close advisement in all my future conduct, because I would never want to be anything like those holier-than-thou bigots, the ones who would make rules and laws "for our own good," as if we are not capable of determining our own good for ourselves, or big enough to endure the consequences if we choose unwisely. I really don't want to be that at all. I want to be a light in the darkness, not a fascist control freak.
Andria
Clicking LIKE on Jman8's post is not enough; I have to explicitly say: He nailed it!
I did switch entirely to vaping. But I have absolutely no problem with people who haven't, either non-vaping smokers or dual users, because I bristle at the notion that anyone (other than the parent of a minor child) has any moral authority whatsoever to control what someone else eats, drinks, or inhales. Of course I like to introduce non-vaping smokers to vaping to show them that there might just be a less harmful choice, but if they don't take to it at all, or if they become dual users, well that's a choice, and they are free to make it for themselves.
Andria: People are different. There are plenty of people for whom there IS such a thing as moderate drinking. I rarely drink and when I do, I always stop after one or two. I haven't been "drunk" in decades. There have always been some (although fewer) for who could smoke in moderation. Unfortunately, I wasn't one of them. Maybe neither is possible for you, but that doesn't mean it's not possible for others.
I did switch entirely to vaping. But I have absolutely no problem with people who haven't, either non-vaping smokers or dual users, because I bristle at the notion that anyone (other than the parent of a minor child) has any moral authority whatsoever to control what someone else eats, drinks, or inhales. Of course I like to introduce non-vaping smokers to vaping to show them that there might just be a less harmful choice, but if they don't take to it at all, or if they become dual users, well that's a choice, and they are free to make it for themselves.
Andria: People are different. There are plenty of people for whom there IS such a thing as moderate drinking. I rarely drink and when I do, I always stop after one or two. I haven't been "drunk" in decades. There have always been some (although fewer) for who could smoke in moderation. Unfortunately, I wasn't one of them. Maybe neither is possible for you, but that doesn't mean it's not possible for others.
I really do see what you're saying here. One thing I do have trouble understanding is the person who smoked 2 PAD's for 'x' amount of decades and then on first day/week of vaping quit smoking for good. I get that part, but the challenge comes in trying to understand how one smoke (or even one pack) would lead back to full time smoking? If vaping has 'power' to remove the 2 PAD's a day for umpteen years, then surely it could handle whatever we throw at it now.
Which matches my experience. I'm now nearing 2.5 years of vaping. Year one was only cigalikes with pre-fills. That year was much fluctuation and I'd estimate I bought around 50 to 75 packs of smokes that year, or a little more than once a week. Don't recall ever going a day without at least one smoke. Year 2 (after halfway point), I began using clearos, and would estimate 40 to 50 packs purchased that year, or under 1 a week. I recall many days of non-smoking, but also recall a phase where I was doing about a half a pack a day for more than 1 week. Never stopped vaping altogether (and never wanted to), but was at times more smoker than vaper. Though there was also a period where I was having 1 a day for many weeks in a row and it was really cool, to me. Then around start of 2014 (or a little before it), I cut back to 1 to 3 smokes a week. And often having 1/3rd a smoke on say Mon. then finishing that off Thurs, and maybe a half on Sat. Doing that for now about 7 months (goes back to late 2013) and the moderation thing feels most applicable to my usage. As I've been cold turkey before (for around 10 years of my adult life), I feel the addiction is broken, but am not hiding fact from myself that there is still risk I take with each smoke, even while moderate smoking feels way better than say half a pack a day smoking (which feels much better than PAD smoking, or more).
The only other thing I'll add that perhaps deserves better placement than end of a post is that I do still smoke for flavor. I way way way more prefer the umpteen million flavor choices and wonderful tastes that vaping offers, especially with the zero to little smell that others around me don't notice and the idea that my fingers are not being coated with what I'm inhaling. But it is a preference, not a black or white / right and wrong thing for me. I'm yet to vape a flavor that tastes like combustible tobacco. If I were in "I want to quit" mode, I'd be very happy there isn't that flavor (temptation) that exists, or that I haven't found it yet. But as dual user, I'm glad that when I get that hankering for a combustible taste, about once every 3 to 7 days, I can have it. Not all smokes I smoke are 'pure enjoyment,' but some are! And smoking a third or half at a time allows me to have that taste, and experience, without coating my fingers, which compared to a year ago at this time, are visibly different. A smoker today would have tough time knowing I am a (moderate) smoker upon thorough investigation of the familiar signs.
Anyway, many smokers I have known, smoked what they did for taste. The whole clear division between menthol and non-menthol smokers makes this pretty clear. I hated menthol smoking as full time smoker, but one of my favorite vapes has menthol flavoring and I at times feel like I can't get too big of a bottle of that liquid. It's never let me down. As I smoke M. Lights and pretty much always have, I like that flavor specifically, and notice the difference from other non-menthol brands or types. It's always a little bizarre to me that ex-smokers, especially those who are now vapers, don't understand that one of the draws is (or was) the flavor you became accustomed to.
But as I've said elsewhere on ECF, I routinely feel like I am 95% vaper today and 5% smoker. During the first year of vaping, I often felt ashamed or something negative about the percentage of me that still enjoyed smoking.
Not anymore!
Then tell him he has cooties and say "PP period, no talk backs!"
Or whatever is the, ahem, adult way of putting that.
I agree with you that it's hard to understand how someone who quit smoking in the blink of an eye could be lured back to smoking by smoking ONE -- that does seem to hold true for drinking, for some, because once you feel that sensation again after however long without it, it feels so good, you long for MORE (the addict's favorite word!) -- but it's hard to imagine for smoking because smoking doesn't really give a "sensation" (except maybe a spinning head, but that's not very pleasant since it often leads directly to nausea).
The thing about taste -- if I had not found this Virginia flavor, which is SOOOOOO similar to the cigarettes I smoked for 30+ yrs, I'm pretty sure I'd still be smoking. No, it's not an identical taste, there's none of the burnt bitterness, which at first made vaping seem quite sweet to me, and I was uncertain at first if I liked it or not. But over that 3-4 wk period that I was a dual user, I gradually came to understand that it wasn't that the vape was so sweet, it was that the cigarettes were so bitter, just plain foul tasting, and THAT was a strange opinion indeed for me to hold of the cigarettes I'd been practically in love with, for so very long. The foul taste is one reason I don't understand how someone who ditched the smokes in an eyeblink could be seduced back to smoking, and why I don't understand the dual use thing at all -- I didn't quit because that was my intent when I came here and got started -- it wasn't! -- I quit because, after vaping for awhile, cigarettes tasted so NASTY, and, not incidentally, they cost SO MUCH, and since I had an excellent substitute that tasted better, cost less, and oh yeah, was far less likely to kill me or make me mortally ill, I figured, why not? All those reasons are what make it hard for me to understand why anyone who vapes regularly would even *want* to smoke -- there's just no payoff in it. You say you like the taste, so I guess I have to group that with my husband's fondness for liver -- just the smell of that makes me gag, so to each his own, I guess.
I'd also like to point out that my initial post in this thread was at the tail end of a very long and irksome day; my feet/ankles swelling becomes quite painful at the end of a day, which would make anyone irritable, doing this thing for my health only to find that it has drawbacks of its own. I believe it was also my 90th day smoke-free, and you know that 3 days/3 wks/3 months thing? Started hitting me pretty hard about day 88, and I'm not sure I'm out the other side *yet* -- I hope I am, because we have to go visit my mom in the hospital today, and as much as I love her, it must be admitted that that woman could try the patience of a saint -- and I am sure not a saint!
Really glad my husband has more patience with her than I do, or the visits would be intolerable. But, thankfully, she has a pvt room in the hospital, so I'll be able to go into the bathroom of her pvt room and vape; my Virginia leaves little *if any* odor in the air, so it's quite stealthy in a situation like that. 
Andria
Actually I have read on the forums about people taking apart laptop batteries for the 18650s the contain. Not an easy or safe task that.
WHY do you care? I think that people should be happy that they are at least considering vaping. Some people vape and smoke. It doesn't make them "fake vapers." It makes them vapers who also smoke cigarettes. The LAST thing we need to do is start throwing shade at each other.
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