Fallout starting close to home
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First... No device is COMPLETELY safe. There are always risks and hazards.
Second, the Subtank Mini center pin is not adjustable and sits almost flush with the outside post. If the mod pin (or battery on a hybrid) comes into contact with both, you have a short on your hands. Hence, I am not risking a Subtank on a mech.
Works fine on my regulated mod but that has short circuit protection. That's where the Subtanks will stay.
I've been using mech mods for years, I own 9 subtanks (my primary tank when I'm out and about), none of mine are flush where did you buy yours? Are you sure they're completely flush? Look at it upside down and make sure you look straight across the bottom. Is the outter casing touching down on the mod before the center pin?
If yours do refrain from using them by all means!
None of mine do, also know that not all hybrids are built equal. You can't compare a cheap 4nine from fasttech to something like a authentic Notorious or a Luxe mod. Never had a problem but like I said not everything is created equal, I see what happens daily with these cheap chinese clones. Here's my secret, proper isolators at both the top and bottom make your story impossible, but don't go to fasttech they're out of stock.
Also if you're absolutely sure they're making contact on your regulated mod believe me they aren't, if they did the atomizer wouldn't fire.
No device is completely safe just like no gun is completely safe, you make it safe to use.
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Not completely flush but close enough I'm not trusting it on a mech. No, I haven't had any issues with it on my regulated device. No shorts or misfires. It "might" be safe on a non hybrid mech mod but without an adjustable center pin, I'm not trusting it.
Still not getting it, if you have an isolator up top wrapped around the 510 between the outter casing and it also curves over the bottom rim of the 510 center pin casing it's not possible to make contact and create a short. Not even going to make a connection at all. And yes, I'm talking about Hybrid mods, you can't read the news and think that Kia that blew up is built the same way the Ferrari parked across the street is. Like I said earlier not all mods are created equal, there are safe hybrids that can be used on anything.
It is precisely that sort of thinking that leads to so many accidents.
No mech is COMPLETELY safe, under any circumstances, no matter how much you know or how many safety precautions you take.
It's IMPOSSIBLE for a mech to be COMPLETELY safe, and will remain IMPOSSIBLE so long as manufacturer defects exist. The wire in your coil may fail and cause a short. While you may have made the perfect coil there may be a defect in the wire itself that causes a failure. Unless you've inspected the entire length of the wire under an electron microscope for defects such as a slag buildup or a thinned or stress fractured point in the wire you have no idea if the wire is good or if a potential failure will occur. Likewise you have no idea if the battery contains a manufacturing defect. It may go through 100 or 200 recharge cycles without a problem and then fail catastrophically for no apparent reason. It's extremely rare, but it DOES happen. You may have an ohms meter but unless you've checked it against high end professional equipment that's been thoroughly and properly calibrated you're just hoping the readings are accurate.
With mechs you have no safety measures at all. You trust that your wire is good. You trust that your batteries are good. You trust that you've built your coils right. And you trust that if anything fails you're going to find and fix the failure before anything bad happens. The vast majority of the time you'll be fine, accidents are extremely rare and some, possibly even most people will go their entire lives without a major failure.
But it's all just TRUST. You don't KNOW, you're just playing the odds. Your battery could pop in your face tomorrow from a manufacturing defect. You have no clue if it will or wont. You just trust that it wont.
Why don't you quote my whole response or response(s) and not just the parts that make your argument valid, or maybe did you not read the whole thread?
I've been handling mechs long before sub ohming was a thing, in fact I sometimes prefer a stainless steel mesh over cotton. You couldn't count how many people I've advised on these forums about battery safety and the importance of making sure your devices are properly built and tested so who exactly do you think you're talking to?
Hre are some quotes I think you left out...
JMarca said:
JMarca said:
One of my local B&M makes you sign a waiver when buying a Mech/RDA. This makes the most sense. Definitely more sense than not selling them at all.
What you say is true, but it applies more to regulated than to unregulated mods.
The only wire in most mechs is the coil. I can see the coil; I stress the coil, & usually look at it under magnification.
Do you disassemble & inspect the many wires, connections, & control boards in your digital devices? Or do you trust the Chinese workers to do it for you? Do you even have the tools to inspect the delicate internals of these electronics?
Do you believe the LiPo batteries installed in so many regulated mods are safer than the IMR batteries we can choose for our mechs?
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I spent quite a few years doing tool design and then industrial design. During those years I learned what the expected safety norms are for both production equipment and for consumer products in NA and Europe and what can happen to people and to a company if you get it wrong.
My expectations with regard to product safety comes from that background.
It's not about an employee (at any wage rate) or only about vaping. It's about industry standards from manufacturers, retailers and governments.
Imagine our society with nothing like construction codes, electrical standards, engineering standards or any consumer protection regulation. Tell people they need to research everything they buy and do and figure out for themselves what design elements are needed to avoid all possible pitfalls for every product they buy. And they can't sue if they hurt themselves because if they get hurt, they obviously didn't do the research right and it's their own fault.
Now that is an extreme scenario, but not all that long ago that's how things worked. It changed when enough people got hurt and pressure to make things change was then applied. It can go too far toward safety. All risk can never be eliminated. Some people don't understand that and some have very little tolerance for risk. That combination can be a real problem too. The best deal is when we have sensible safety standards and regs, but what is sensible for one person is not for another so no solution is going to satisfy everyone.
seems like maybe he has a little more basic respect for people...... and also maybe actually "cares" a little.
To be honest, I don't even look in on the topics about people blowing their faces off anymore.
Because you'll go 10+ posts into the topic, often more......... before anyone even says something like "I hope this person is okay, has anyone heard anything?" The person it happened to is merely a distant afterthought now.
Because of course, they are (insert denigrating insult here). The topics becomes a huge launch into how dumb everybody is, then how dumb the reporters are (I guess for not being able to explain why and how the accident happened because, like about 1/2 of members on even a vaping forum, they don't actually KNOW that your shouldn't put certain toppers on hybrid mods, or use certain batteries), how dumb all the vape store employees are, and how everyone is out to get us.
Back when I started vaping, it was common to care about fellow vapers. the guy who helped me, he honestly thought that maybe my next cig would be the one to kill me, so he helped me with a purchase order, then gave me his phone number to walk me thru when I got everything.
I care about anybody who is trying to quit smoking. We all KNOW what that is about. There is a certain amount of desperation involved, and you are a little scared that you won't succeed, and you are hoping it will be easy enough and you won't fail, because you are thinking it is "the way, the light"........ because nothing else has worked.
Now, people blow off their faces and mostly what I read is about how dumb they were. I mean, that is the very first thought offered. , instead of concern for the injured person.
I guess it's more important to be right than compassionate.
I've had a couple accidents in my life where I got hurt. In the final analysis, yeah, it was me not being AS aware or proactive as i could be......and sometimes it was just unforseen, you know, LIFE. . but at the time, when you're sitting in the ER, that is really not what anybody who actually cares about you is thinking. (Or at least, I hope not) Nobody is thinking "well she deserved this".
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Well if you read enough of these topics, you will notice that that is EXACTLY what many people want. And think should be. Just keep that in mind when you are trying to be the "voice of reason".
Like I tell people, they should go spend a few months in Haiti. IF they wanna see what their "perfect world" looks like in PRACTICE.
Been there, done that.
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This thread wasn't about a particular accident (though I hear what you're saying about compassion for others). It was about liability and sales of mech mods by retailers.
I do try to figure out why an incident happened in order to educate anyone reading the thread. And I feel the media goes for soap opera drama. It would be nice if they also consulted someone to determine the cause of the incident. Really, they could be the best educators on safety due to the number of people who will see or read the account, and thus prevent more people from getting injured. They could do a better job than we can here because of the size of the audience. And sadly, they don't seem to follow up on stories to let us know what happened to the injured person. I do actually want to know if the person is ok, whether its a mod explosion or a vehicle accident or a house fire or whatever.
I do try to figure out why an incident happened in order to educate anyone reading the thread. And I feel the media goes for soap opera drama. It would be nice if they also consulted someone to determine the cause of the incident. Really, they could be the best educators on safety due to the number of people who will see or read the account, and thus prevent more people from getting injured. They could do a better job than we can here because of the size of the audience. And sadly, they don't seem to follow up on stories to let us know what happened to the injured person. I do actually want to know if the person is ok, whether its a mod explosion or a vehicle accident or a house fire or whatever.
Read the comment (which has absolutely NO PLACE on GoFundMe type of site where families who have experienced a tragedy are reaching out to the community for financial help and prayers) left by a vaper:
Embarassing. to me at least. This one of the most recent man from Memphis .....Pictures of the injured man and a description about how serious his injuries are........dreadful .......and then *commenter* says Not one word about the man's well being.....just spouting vaping agenda.
"Drake Paulsen
2 hours ago
First of all, the "electronic cigarette" is not made by kangertech, the subtank is.The subtank would relatively work with that mod. Its up to the user to make sure he knows what he is doing to make it all work correctly. If there was an explosion, why aren't any signs of one shown. For the injuries he is claiming, the mod, and subtank would be destroyed. We as vapors have enough people trying to shut it down, we dont need people who make dumb mistakes to ruin it for the people who use vaping as an alternitive to smoking."
Maybe commenter should have started a blog about it or something, it amazes me that people can be so......inappropriate.
Have zero desire to be associated with any vaper like this and embarassed for our community that it happened. Jerry Springer guest would have had more class.
Embarassing. to me at least. This one of the most recent man from Memphis .....Pictures of the injured man and a description about how serious his injuries are........dreadful .......and then *commenter* says Not one word about the man's well being.....just spouting vaping agenda.
"Drake Paulsen
2 hours ago
First of all, the "electronic cigarette" is not made by kangertech, the subtank is.The subtank would relatively work with that mod. Its up to the user to make sure he knows what he is doing to make it all work correctly. If there was an explosion, why aren't any signs of one shown. For the injuries he is claiming, the mod, and subtank would be destroyed. We as vapors have enough people trying to shut it down, we dont need people who make dumb mistakes to ruin it for the people who use vaping as an alternitive to smoking."
Maybe commenter should have started a blog about it or something, it amazes me that people can be so......inappropriate.
Have zero desire to be associated with any vaper like this and embarassed for our community that it happened. Jerry Springer guest would have had more class.
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Are you talking about the MOD or the TANK?
I don't see an insulator wrapping around the end of any Subtank Mini.
Yes... let's throw mech users under the bus.
Once someone sticks a 4-amp UberFire ICR in a 200 watt mod, let's throw those under the buss.
Next time someone uses the wrong charger with an eGo - under the bus they go.
Then someone sticks a cigalike in their back pocket and snaps it when they sit down. Literal butthurt/pants on fire. Time for the ol' bus.
Once someone sticks a 4-amp UberFire ICR in a 200 watt mod, let's throw those under the buss.
Next time someone uses the wrong charger with an eGo - under the bus they go.
Then someone sticks a cigalike in their back pocket and snaps it when they sit down. Literal butthurt/pants on fire. Time for the ol' bus.
Actually.... The whole "ecigarettes can blow up" thing started with eGos.
And I'm willing to bet at least some of those incidents were due to the wrong charger.
They've already been under the bus.
This whole industry is under the bus for that matter. The average joe doesn't know/care about the difference between a mech and a regulated device. The whole truth is never told. Was the person using the wrong charger? Did they understand the mechanics of a mech and how to use it properly? Were they using cheap/underpowered batteries? Did a short protection fail on their regulated device? None of that ever comes out in the story. People just hear about an electronic cigarettes blowing up and think, "oh crap! Those things are dangerous!"
We are going to be regulated no mater what the vendors,you or, I do or, don't do. The law suites themselves
are sufficient to regulate the safety issues. The FDA doesn't give on hoot about our safety or the lack of
warnings nor a cloud chaser ambushing gramma in the cereal isle at Walmart. If the B&M's are starting to
pull these devices it won't be long before the online vendors do. That would still leave China. Perhaps that's
the best route at this point. All this with no regulations.
Pointing fingers at the vendors for our woe's isn't the answer. The vendors sell these items because their
customers want the products. 99% of these accidents are not caused by customers who didn't know the
dangers. They were caused by customers who thought they knew what they were doing.
You can warn the customers till the cows come home. All you'll get in return is shut up and take my
money.
Regards
Mike
Having regs thrust on us for no apparent reason is bad enough, but regs that are justified and self inflicted due to the abusive practices and stupidity of the vaping industry really grinds my gears. When regs come about and the hammer comes down, i wish i could say none of the regs are justified...but i know that will not be true in all cases ...sadly
I've used the same car analogy (without the pictures on a couple of other threads.
The problem is that someone can go in to a showroom, and plunk down enough $$$ to buy your "Mech" without even knowing enough to safely operate your "Regulated"
Unfortunately, government regulations aren't going to be the major problem with this. Insurance companies, and trial lawyers pretty much rule the roost these days.
Civil liability cases quite often defy logic. The law is whatever a smooth talking attorney can convince the jury to say it is.
What shop owner wants to deal with that?
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