FDA issues notice of intent to propose "deeming" regulation by April of 2013 for e-cigarettes and other tobacco products

[Fiamma]

I don't know what the tobacco companies are planning, but just the fact that Lorillard is in on the e-cig market should give us some hope. I don't think BT will take this lying down. They'll probably start a sue-pocalypse. But then again, BT might then turn around and rip our small vendors a new one.

In my darker moments I wonder if Lorillard, in view of their 135 million investment in Blu and their deep pockets and considerable long term influence with the FDA, would pull strings to get 'their' model Blu designated as the ONLY model allowed to be sold. Small bat, sealed cart, proprietary juice. With that, they might run head on into their other tobacco competitors entering the e cig field, and that would be fun to watch and surely delay anything final for some time. Those are my darker moments but I confess to becoming more cynical about the big players as time goes on. I, for one, would love to see big tobacco and big pharma at each other's throats. I wouldn't mind at all if they all sued each other and the FDA as well, as long as they don't interfere with MY choice of e cig.

And by the way, I'm a new vaper and I'm quite concerned about this. I don't know if I can do anything though, because testamonial-wise I don't have much to say. I've been using this stuff for much too short a time to say much of anything about my experience.

I am happy to see a new vaper taking an interest in what might happen to us in the near future. Kudos to you Everyone's story is important when you make the switch from courting your death via tobacco cigarettes to a healthier alternative, be it e cigs, snus or other smokeless products. How long you smoked, what motivated you to try something different, how you approached the transition can give others insight into your experience to date with the process we have all gone through. Our experiences may be long or short, but they are all indicative of what we can do to help ourselves not die of tobacco related disease over time, and they are all important.

 

[Kenzi]

I wrote , when CASAA informed me of the need , but I have to say that the link I was taken to and the information I read was confusing . Maybe I'm slow but I wish this stuff was more clear . I also wish we had more media exposure etc. The entire situation is aggravating me . Probably because it scares me so much

 

[Plumes.91]

I THINK one of the most important things to do right now is KEEP THIS THREAD AND THREADS LIKE IT BUMPED.

 

[ethebull]

I wrote and posted to the public comment link provided here and in a different thread. I will also write to my Congressman and Senator.

I will also order a 1000ml 100mg bottle of nicotine to diy before the hearing date... and cross my fingers.

 

[Plumes.91]

If you are thinking of hoarding, I recommend you think about advanced devices rather than hoarding juice making supplies. Propylene Glycol, Vegetable Glycerine, and flavors will always be available. No one is banning those. Premixed nicotine solutions are under fire, however nicotine is easily extracted from tobacco leaf. If you truly plan to be an underground vaper should an apocolypse happen, it is the advanced devices that you need to start hoarding, and fast. Things like rebuildable atomizers, rebuildable atomizer tanks, etc... because if this bill were to pass, (it will not if we stand up together) we may end up stuck with pre-2007 atomizers, or, no atomizers at all. In order of priority I would list 510 battery to heads connections, rebuildable atomizer systems, variable voltage chips and pre-made nicotine solution. But we will stand together and fight this bill and hoarding will not be necessary my friend. We are going to win this battle. The war is further off but we are going to win this battle if our morale stays strong. I am confident that if the fda were to ban e-cigarettes this forum and forums like it would revert to their roots, modding forums. This is what we want to avoid. We want e-cigs to be accessible to ALL and we will not win this fight if we lay back and believe that we will survive with our DIY and garage mods. It is going to take every 1 of us, from the 808s to eGo user to the altoids cans, to the silver bullets, to the zens.

 

[Fiamma]

I wrote , when CASAA informed me of the need , but I have to say that the link I was taken to and the information I read was confusing . Maybe I'm slow but I wish this stuff was more clear . I also wish we had more media exposure etc. The entire situation is aggravating me . Probably because it scares me so much

Part of the method government at all branches and divisions use is obfuscatory language. If they confuse you you might go away and not bother them.

Most of the media exposure we get is not very flattering and that is purposeful. The big boys and the government have long arms and deep pockets. This is all about control and money. I used to think it was more heavily weighted toward money, but the ideologues have caused me to shift toward a balance of control and money.

Scared is a healthy reaction to this mess. Use that to get vocal and angry about the railroad job we are getting from the FDA, the ideologues, et al.

 

[ethebull]

I have more than a dozen RBA's now, and a super solid mechanical mod on order. Yes, PG, VG and flavors won't go away.

Everyone needs to contact their representatives, and hope that the big money guys get shot down. I don't have a good feeling about any of this.

 

[Fiamma]

I have more than a dozen RBA's now, and a super solid mechanical mod on order. Yes, PG, VG and flavors won't go away.

Everyone needs to contact their representatives, and hope that the big money guys get shot down. I don't have a good feeling about any of this.

I started buying mechanical mods months back that use independent batteries. Should always be able to buy batteries. I also started stockpiling cartos, atomizers (I prefer 901's), drip tips, shields, RBA's and other incidentals. Who knows, if they win, how far the madness will go. With the recent declaration of deeming by April 2013 I am adding to the piles on the shelves and in the drawers. I have enough nic in the freezer for a good long time. I know I can get the other ingredients at will.

I will continue to agitate my reps and work with locals and new vapers hoping that we can somehow overcome this roadblock as we have overcome others in the past, but like you I don't have a really good feeling about the possible outcome.

We all need to work hard and be vocal and insistent in our positions.

 

[zoiDman]

... I wouldn't mind at all if they all sued each other and the FDA as well, as long as they don't interfere with MY choice of e cig.
...

I don’t see how the last part of your statement is even Remotely Possible.

 

[joelle]

So I'm wondering if part of this regulation might not be a good thing. I mean to play devil's advocate here a bit. Don't we want to know that the mix masters that are concocting all those amazing flavors are doing so in a controlled manner? I'm new to this world and find it to be a bit of a "wild west" mentality as far as how many vendors are selling ejuice without stating how it's actually made. Are there already regulations or at least standards in the market that I just don't know about or is it really a free for all in that anyone can buy a dyi kit and start marketing their own blends? We just don't know enough yet about long term effects of vaping to be so cavalier about how the vapor we're sucking into our lungs is actually formulated. It's all well and good to state that "this juice is made in a sterile stainless kitchen" but is anyone really checking that this in indeed the case?

Maybe I'm just not informed enough yet about this world to understand what the FDA is actually discussing. Could someone actually translate things into plain english so that those of us who don't understand legalese can understand?

 

[AttyPops]

If you are thinking of hoarding, I recommend you think about advanced devices rather than hoarding juice making supplies. Propylene Glycol, Vegetable Glycerine, and flavors will always be available. No one is banning those. Premixed nicotine solutions are under fire, however nicotine is easily extracted from tobacco leaf. If you truly plan to be an underground vaper should an apocolypse happen, it is the advanced devices that you need to start hoarding, and fast. Things like rebuildable atomizers, rebuildable atomizer tanks, etc... because if this bill were to pass, (it will not if we stand up together) we may end up stuck with pre-2007 atomizers, or, no atomizers at all. In order of priority I would list 510 battery to heads connections, rebuildable atomizer systems, variable voltage chips and pre-made nicotine solution. But we will stand together and fight this bill and hoarding will not be necessary my friend. We are going to win this battle. The war is further off but we are going to win this battle if our morale stays strong. I am confident that if the fda were to ban e-cigarettes this forum and forums like it would revert to their roots, modding forums. This is what we want to avoid. We want e-cigs to be accessible to ALL and we will not win this fight if we lay back and believe that we will survive with our DIY and garage mods. It is going to take every 1 of us, from the 808s to eGo user to the altoids cans, to the silver bullets, to the zens.

I mostly agree. However, the one statement about nic-juice being easily extractable....no. Not really IMO. It's the one real danger in this regulation topic for me. I can build everything else. It's the juice that they'll go after IMO.

I can't get fairly clean clear nic juice extracted DIY from tobacco that I know of. Sad. I don't want to have to either.

 

[DC2]

Maybe I'm just not informed enough yet about this world to understand what the FDA is actually discussing. Could someone actually translate things into plain english so that those of us who don't understand legalese can understand?

I did my best to explain by answering some questions in this post...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ettes-other-tobacco-products.html#post8278313

Other than that, you might want to read this thread...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...e-products-eliminate-many-most-companies.html

 

[zoiDman]

So I'm wondering if part of this regulation might not be a good thing. I mean to play devil's advocate here a bit. Don't we want to know that the mix masters that are concocting all those amazing flavors are doing so in a controlled manner? I'm new to this world and find it to be a bit of a "wild west" mentality as far as how many vendors are selling ejuice without stating how it's actually made. Are there already regulations or at least standards in the market that I just don't know about or is it really a free for all in that anyone can buy a dyi kit and start marketing their own blends? We just don't know enough yet about long term effects of vaping to be so cavalier about how the vapor we're sucking into our lungs is actually formulated. It's all well and good to state that "this juice is made in a sterile stainless kitchen" but is anyone really checking that this in indeed the case?

Maybe I'm just not informed enough yet about this world to understand what the FDA is actually discussing. Could someone actually translate things into plain english so that those of us who don't understand legalese can understand?

This is what many Vaper’s are concerned about. That they don’t know what direction the FDA/Government will pursue.

My Opinion,

Outright Ban on e-Cigarette Hardware: Zero Chance.
Outright Ban on e-Liquids: Extremely Unlikely.
e-Liquid sales Regulated by the ATF: Almost a Given.
Ban on Liquid form e-Liquids: Very Possible.
Flavored e-Liquid sales: Extremely Limited.
e-Liquid being Severely Taxed: Almost a Given.

---

I’m with you in that some ways, regulations will be a Good thing. I am Amazed that Retail e-Liquid sellers have been allowed to mix ANYTHING they want into a bottle and then sell it over the Internet as “Juice” for as long as they have. But those days are numbered.

I believe that the “Golden Age” of e-Cigarettes has ended. And that the “Regulated” phase has begun.

 

[DC2]

My Opinion,

Outright Ban on e-Cigarette Hardware: Zero Chance.
Outright Ban on e-Liquids: Extremely Unlikely.
e-Liquid sales Regulated by the ATF: Almost a Given.
Ban on Liquid form e-Liquids: Very Possible.
Flavored e-Liquid sales: Extremely Limited.
e-Liquid being Severely Taxed: Almost a Given.

I liked your post, not because I like it, but because unfortunately it is probably correct.
Those are all good reads on the various likely outcomes.

Well, at least those represent the likely outcome in a world where we sit here silently while they screw us over.
But I'm really hoping they will get a whole lot more than they bargained for when they tell us to bend over.

 

[zoiDman]

I liked your post, not because I like it, but because unfortunately it is probably correct.
Those are all good reads on the various likely outcomes.

...

Thank you DC2.

I have taking a Lot of Flack here on the ECF and been Flamed Repeatedly for many of my posts regarding Regulation.

I don’t like much of what I have posted either. But I am a Realist. And can see what direction things are heading.

 

[Petrodus]

Some say I'm a "gloom & doomer" or a "pessimist".
I say I'm a "realist" ... I don't make the news...I'm just reporting it.

All governments and their agencies have one unanswered question.
How many rights, freedoms, and privileges can they steal before
the public "snaps".

The FDA conducts business just like the White House.

Both do the "dog and pony show" to give the illusion
they are interested in protecting the public.

After the "dog and pony show" ... The FDA enacts regulations.

The White House will use "executive orders" or sign
United Nation treaties if they can't push their agendas
through Congress.

The table is tilted folks ... The game is rigged.

I'm an old retired Viet-Nam vet.
I've personally witnessed more stolen rights, freedoms, and privileges
in my life than most reading these words can even imagine.

What's the solution ??
Short of revolution ... just find your own "work around" thing
to what ever the Owners of America decide to do.

 

[zippersnapper]

Well, Im sick of worring about it, thats why I'm stocking up on supplies and MODS like there is no tomorrow:
And as far as I'm concerned:

 

[Kenzi]

Part of the method government at all branches and divisions use is obfuscatory language. If they confuse you you might go away and not bother them.

Most of the media exposure we get is not very flattering and that is purposeful. The big boys and the government have long arms and deep pockets. This is all about control and money. I used to think it was more heavily weighted toward money, but the ideologues have caused me to shift toward a balance of control and money.

Scared is a healthy reaction to this mess. Use that to get vocal and angry about the railroad job we are getting from the FDA, the ideologues, et al.

I completely agree with what you have stated here.

I did write to the link provided by CASAA , my point . is that even after following the link (which I received in an e-mail) is it wasn't real clear where to write ( there were several links and when followed were a bit confusing) I saw many people simply "replied" which I don't think got to the right place.. . I wish there was a central pro-vaping org. that broke it down and made i easier to get involved. I almost gave up.. (pathetic , I know ..but it's honest and I doubt I'm alone)

 

[Kenzi]

I have more than a dozen RBA's now, and a super solid mechanical mod on order. Yes, PG, VG and flavors won't go away.

Everyone needs to contact their representatives, and hope that the big money guys get shot down. I don't have a good feeling about any of this.

what is a "Super mechanical mod" ? I'm seriously asking ...thanks !!!

 

[AttyPops]

what is a "Super mechanical mod" ? I'm seriously asking ...thanks !!!

An all-mechanical mod is one that has a button and some wires...and an atty connector and a battery enclosure...and that's about it. No electronics. Use protected or IMR batteries with them. They follow battery voltage and don't have voltage regulators...so no VV or even fixed voltage really. 3.7 ish volts depending on battery charge. Maybe do a google search for "all mechanical e-cig". You can make them too if your the handy type. Also, I'd order a replacement button with the PV to have an extra one around.

The intent is to have low failure rates and use replaceable batteries. Make sure they are VENTED.

There are several so ... you have to browse to see what you want.

EDIT: And regarding the FDA topic...I'm not commenting more than what I said above until I see what they propose.

If you want to sell cupcakes or cookies from a home based business or larger...you have to follow FDA rules. If e-juice has some rules, it MAY (stress may) not be all that bad. They may be good guidelines. I'm not gambling on it at all, but I'm not being too negative yet either. Their past performance with e-cigs has been less than encouraging. However, they also haven't published the info yet so it's all educated guesswork at this point.