Most cigarettes are already made oversea's in China, Thailand et, and they use flavoring made by another company to make the crap tobacco, taste like home made amarican
They will manufacture in 3rd world as well8-ono problema.FDA Sued Over Electronic Cigarette Embargo
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Most cigarettes are already made oversea's in China, Thailand et, and they use flavoring made by another company to make the crap tobacco, taste like home made amarican
They will manufacture in 3rd world as well8-ono problema.
Thanks for coming back Chuck! Sorry I didn't see your post when I posted my last one.
I agree that this could determine the future of e-cigs/ PV's. I think we all want to do something to assure our voices are heard before the gavel falls. There is so much going on that it takes all of us to keep up. Even then, it's hard for any one person to absorb it all. It's exciting and scary.
I know you weren't condoning an amicus curiae. We were all just fleshing it out and seeking something we can do besides twiddle our thumbs. Honestly, I didn't know what it was, but when you suggested it I Googled it and studied a little. From what I've read I still think it could be a possibility.
I still want to see what Mr Bill thinks. I completely respect his opinion.
So everyone is crystal on this, please observe the following excerpt of the waxman bill:
TITLE I--AUTHORITY OF THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION
SEC. 101. AMENDMENT OF FEDERAL FOOD, DRUG, AND COSMETIC ACT.
(a) Definition of Tobacco Products- Section 201 of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (21 U.S.C. 321) is amended by adding at the end the following: (rr)(1) The term tobacco product means any product made or derived from tobacco that is intended for human consumption, including any component, part, or accessory of a tobacco product (except for raw materials other than tobacco used in manufacturing a component, part, or accessory of a tobacco
and this section as well:
SEC. 907. TOBACCO PRODUCT STANDARDS.
(a) In General-
(1) SPECIAL RULES-
(A) SPECIAL RULE FOR CIGARETTES- Beginning 3 months after the date of enactment of the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act, a cigarette or any of its component parts (including the tobacco, filter, or paper) shall not contain, as a constituent (including a smoke constituent) or additive, an artificial or natural flavor (other than tobacco or menthol) or an herb or spice, including strawberry, grape, orange, clove, cinnamon, pineapple, vanilla, coconut, licorice, cocoa, chocolate, cherry, or coffee, that is a characterizing flavor of the tobacco product or tobacco smoke. Nothing in this subparagraph shall be construed to limit the Secretarys authority to take action under this section or other sections of this Act applicable to menthol or any artificial or natural flavor, herb, or spice not specified in this subparagraph.
So, while the device may not be covered in this bill, our carts and e-juice is. If FDA is given the ability to regulate e-juice, they could easily set the maximum allowed nic levels to 1mg/mL, the flavor aspect of our juice would absolutely be called into question, and the wording of this bill would eventually be altered.
As most already know Phillip Morris is developing his own 'personal vaporizer' and is planning to test it in a few other countries before bringing it to the states. PM and FDA are clearly in bed together and I have no doubt that right about the time PM mass produces these units for the US, at this time FDA would lift any restrictions on the ecig... or perhaps just figure a way to make his legit.
FDA is holding shipment of the ecig and supplies in hopes the bill passes and their actions are made legit. So, any juice, carts, starter kits w/ carts, would never make through customs. This is a horribly abusive bill.
Sorry, can't post link at the moment due to post count. You can find the bill in its entirety @ opencongress.org HR 1256
TITLE I--AUTHORITY OF THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION
SEC. 101. AMENDMENT OF FEDERAL FOOD, DRUG, AND COSMETIC ACT.
(a) Definition of Tobacco Products- Section 201 of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (21 U.S.C. 321) is amended by adding at the end the following: (rr)(1) The term tobacco product means any product made or derived from tobacco that is intended for human consumption, including any component, part, or accessory of a tobacco product (except for raw materials other than tobacco used in manufacturing a component, part, or accessory of a tobacco
and this section as well:
SEC. 907. TOBACCO PRODUCT STANDARDS.
(a) In General-
(1) SPECIAL RULES-
(A) SPECIAL RULE FOR CIGARETTES- Beginning 3 months after the date of enactment of the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act, a cigarette or any of its component parts (including the tobacco, filter, or paper) shall not contain, as a constituent (including a smoke constituent) or additive, an artificial or natural flavor (other than tobacco or menthol) or an herb or spice, including strawberry, grape, orange, clove, cinnamon, pineapple, vanilla, coconut, licorice, cocoa, chocolate, cherry, or coffee, that is a characterizing flavor of the tobacco product or tobacco smoke. Nothing in this subparagraph shall be construed to limit the Secretarys authority to take action under this section or other sections of this Act applicable to menthol or any artificial or natural flavor, herb, or spice not specified in this subparagraph.
So, while the device may not be covered in this bill, our carts and e-juice is. If FDA is given the ability to regulate e-juice, they could easily set the maximum allowed nic levels to 1mg/mL, the flavor aspect of our juice would absolutely be called into question, and the wording of this bill would eventually be altered.
As most already know Phillip Morris is developing his own 'personal vaporizer' and is planning to test it in a few other countries before bringing it to the states. PM and FDA are clearly in bed together and I have no doubt that right about the time PM mass produces these units for the US, at this time FDA would lift any restrictions on the ecig... or perhaps just figure a way to make his legit.
FDA is holding shipment of the ecig and supplies in hopes the bill passes and their actions are made legit. So, any juice, carts, starter kits w/ carts, would never make through customs. This is a horribly abusive bill.
Sorry, can't post link at the moment due to post count. You can find the bill in its entirety @ opencongress.org HR 1256
Ok, wait a second, I just thought of something. This is probably stupid for some reason because no one else mentioned it, so I am ready to look like a jack ... but just in case, here it goes:
Isn't nicotine found in lots of different varieties of the nightshade family of plants? Aren't there other plants that are not tobacco that we could extract nicotine from and bipass the bill?
Isn't nicotine found in lots of different varieties of the nightshade family of plants? Aren't there other plants that are not tobacco that we could extract nicotine from and bipass the bill?
Way to go Smoke Everywhere! Put their balls to the walls. Enough of this fight for regulations. What I see is theyare just ...... they did not come out with it first. To stop allowing the import could put a dent in global commerce as these are world wide. Then they can say they can regulate the sales taxing everyone up the ying yang and it is cigarette companies all over again. adding to the cartridges, putting in more ingredients, you get where I'm going with this one, control it is all abount money and control. Well they can bite me on this one. Again great job, resepct and big props to you. Aloha
Nicotine is found in other things like potatoes and eggplant, but not in sufficient volume to make extraction from anything other than tobacco worthwhile.
There is, I believe, a synthetic nicotine, but I don't know if the costs to manufacture it would be at a level where it could be used instead of tobacco-extracted nicotine. (I've been doing a ton of reading lately, so I may be wrong in that, if anyone else could confirm that or shoot me down, please do so.)
Ivisi
Although I assumed this, "As most already know Phillip Morris is developing his own 'personal vaporizer' and is planning to test it in a few other countries before bringing it to the states" I did not know it was in the news. You are not referring to the Heatbar, are you?
Extracting nicotine from tobacco is not something you can do in the kitchen. Some friends and I were talking about it the other night and one's a phd chemist. He said to get usable nicotine you either have to have a really big setup that's running tons per hour, or use a complicated process with solvents and acid and alkaline and know what your doing just to get a little bit out of the plant.
Also the beginning of the Iron Maiden song, "Aces High" (1984) New battle hymn anyone? lol!
My best,
-VP
OpenCongress - Text of H.R.1256 as Placed on Calendar Senate Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control ActOpenCongress - Text of H.R.1256 as Placed on Calendar Senate Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act
I guess aromatherapist's Like my Wife will be treated as criminals to!
The Herbal Lady fugitive from justice.
I guess aromatherapist's Like my Wife will be treated as criminals to!
The Herbal Lady fugitive from justice.
I'm curious as to what all this means for non-nicotine vapers.
(Please bear in mind that legalese, and thus about half the statements in this thread, are all but incomprehensible to me. I apologize if this has been addressed.)
(Please bear in mind that legalese, and thus about half the statements in this thread, are all but incomprehensible to me. I apologize if this has been addressed.)
The FDA have said that the devices are drug delivery devices I think and there is a chance we could argue that they are not if used without nicotine. That's a real possibility. Regulation of eliquid is less of a problem for us than regulation of device and eliquid combination.
Smoking Everywhere seem to be trying to confirm that the devices and eliquid should be categorised together and regulated together as a tobacco product. I'm not sure that zero nicotine makes any difference with that argument.
The fact is that zero nicotine vaping is neither drug use nor tobacco use and should have a separate category. Nobody seems to think the truth is going to be established and the choices of tobacco or drug are all we are seeing here.
Smoking Everywhere seem to be trying to confirm that the devices and eliquid should be categorised together and regulated together as a tobacco product. I'm not sure that zero nicotine makes any difference with that argument.
The fact is that zero nicotine vaping is neither drug use nor tobacco use and should have a separate category. Nobody seems to think the truth is going to be established and the choices of tobacco or drug are all we are seeing here.
There's some discussion here about the implications of vaping products being categorised as tobacco products - http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...bill-godshall-tobaccofree-org.html#post174309
I can't see an honest legal system supporting this myself, this is obviously not tobacco.
I can't see an honest legal system supporting this myself, this is obviously not tobacco.
I'm bowing out of this thread, Kate, and you are right. The case will be lost. Plan accordingly. This is about Smoking Everywhere's investment and loss, not e-smoking. We need other routes to legality.
If you lie down with dogs, don't be surprised if you end up with fleas. SE is not our friend and the FDA will have every false statement ever made by them to offer the court.
Just wish CourtTV would carry this!
If you lie down with dogs, don't be surprised if you end up with fleas. SE is not our friend and the FDA will have every false statement ever made by them to offer the court.
Just wish CourtTV would carry this!
I like in PA and around town there are several restaurants, gyms, etc that have signs up "No smoking, cigars, pipes or tobacco products" (Apparently relating to chewing tobacco, but that's what it says)
I'm less than half-way thru this thread so sorry if this is not pertinent anymore.
Actual Motion Here: Last Doc to Be Filed
FDA denies immediate relief and proposes "schedule".
"Obama, could this really be the end?
To be stuck inside of Customs by the FDA again".
TropicalBob Dylan (no offense Bob - did u get the GC stuff?)
FDA denies immediate relief and proposes "schedule".
"Obama, could this really be the end?
To be stuck inside of Customs by the FDA again".
TropicalBob Dylan (no offense Bob - did u get the GC stuff?)
Pm's 'Heat Bar' was just precursor the their personal vaporizer. PM was absolutely sure that the Hear bar was going to be a huge success, roasting the cigarettes instead of burning them. However, Ecigs coming onto the scene completely destroyed PMs chance at having his device catch on.
I'm sure there will be significant differences between a standard ecig and PMs personal vaporizer, from what I've read the carts are supposedly tamper proof. That is the only mention to the design I have seen, like I said, certainly they will be just different enough to be considered something other then a ecig.
If anyone has anymore info on this device especially pictures, please post them, or send them to me and I will post for you.
I'm sure there will be significant differences between a standard ecig and PMs personal vaporizer, from what I've read the carts are supposedly tamper proof. That is the only mention to the design I have seen, like I said, certainly they will be just different enough to be considered something other then a ecig.
If anyone has anymore info on this device especially pictures, please post them, or send them to me and I will post for you.
Since we are talking about PM's ecig... here is a fun quest for folks that Katink put me on...
find the connection between Altria and Rauchless and the new and upcoming Smokefree Innotec. It is a thrilling ride and I have one missing link to complete the entire circle... so if anyone can help... it would be greatly appreciated.
There may or may not be something there... but wow... it could be a possibility!
find the connection between Altria and Rauchless and the new and upcoming Smokefree Innotec. It is a thrilling ride and I have one missing link to complete the entire circle... so if anyone can help... it would be greatly appreciated.
There may or may not be something there... but wow... it could be a possibility!
PM has been on this since the 80's. They registered patents and actually had esmoke as a trademark! Not anymore.
They "have" a Chinese e-cig just like everyone else and his grandmother! Except they have the $$$ to go public. Watch this stock... SFIO $0.015 0.003 UP 25% 45,000 Shares Traded, no news, no filing, no nothing except 45,000 shares out there that "somebody" owns at a current value of $675,000.00
Shareholder's Filing: Interesting Gang, Changed Name and Locations How many times now?
NASDAQ Info Quotes - Stock Prices - Stock Research
"B. Business of the Issuer
We are in the business of designing, developing, manufacturing and marketing a hi-tech
smokeless nicotine delivery cigarette like electronic device which is completely smokefree
and tobacco-free. Products are designed to protect the non-smoker from second hand
smoke and all its effects while providing the smoker a way to enjoy smoking anywhere
including places that prohibit smoking. Further, it will allow the smoker to enjoy smoking
while not having to worry about the dangers and ill effects of regular cigarette smoking".
"With further test-marketing planned in Pensylvania, the Board of Smokeless believes that within the next 18 months its product will yield a multi-million dollar turnover from around the globe."
Have to go now, I have a multi-million dollar turnover from around the globe to handle!
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