Feeling Strange and Major Panic Attacks

[strayling]

I got some 36mg and put it in my 510.

Brilliant.

Never doing that again. You could have popped my head with a pin.

Yeah, the Dura is an e-cig version of a muscle car IMO. High performance, but it needs careful handling and it's a gas guzzler. A Pilot is more like a Japanese hatchback: lower performance, but it's easy to drive and sips gas.

 

[jbbishop]

2,3,5,6-tetramethyl pyrazine
2,3,5-trimethyl pyrazine
2,6-dimethyl pyrazine
2-acetyl pyrazine
2-methyl butyric acid
Terpineol
ethyl maltol
2-acetyl pyridine
gamma-octalactone

All of these are widely used in the creation and/or manufacturing of fragrance and/or flavor concentrates of all types.

Most are considered non-toxic, others may be considered harmful if inhaled as a respiratory irritant and/or the toxicology is not fully investigated.

Most flavor additives tested are classified as safe when they enter the human body through the ingestion of food and not through inhalation.

JC's ingredient list does not go into any details where it lists "natural and artificial flavors."

In an unregulated industry, one adulterant I would be very concerned about here, given China's track record, is the substitution of ethylene glycol for propylene glycol or glycerin.

Diethylene glycol is illegally used as counterfeit glycerin in some nations and sold internationally as a component of cough syrup, toothpaste, and mouthwash.

See: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/06/world/americas/06poison.html

Diethylene Glycol: Inhalation of diethylene glycol vapors is unlikely due to its low vapor pressure. However, if misted or handled at elevated temperatures, high concentrations of diethylene glycol can produce drowsiness, headache, dizziness, and nausea. Ingestion of diethylene glycol can result in behavioral change, drowsiness, kidney and liver failure, and coma. The oral toxicity of diethylene glycol is greater in humans than in laboratory animals. The estimated single lethal dose-oral-human is 1.0 ml/kg.

 

[strayling]

Most are considered non-toxic, others may be considered harmful if inhaled as a respiratory irritant and/or the toxicology is not fully investigated.

Respiratory irritant covers a multitude of sins. One person's respiratory irritant could be another's throat hit.

 

[Monkeylurv]

2,3,5,6-tetramethyl

In an unregulated industry, one adulterant I would be very concerned about here, given China's track record, is the substitution of ethylene glycol for propylene glycol or glycerin.

Diethylene glycol is illegally used as counterfeit glycerin in some nations and sold internationally as a component of cough syrup, toothpaste, and mouthwash.

See: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/06/world/americas/06poison.html

Diethylene Glycol: Inhalation of diethylene glycol vapors is unlikely due to its low vapor pressure. However, if misted or handled at elevated temperatures, high concentrations of diethylene glycol can produce drowsiness, headache, dizziness, and nausea. Ingestion of diethylene glycol can result in behavioral change, drowsiness, kidney and liver failure, and coma. The oral toxicity of diethylene glycol is greater in humans than in laboratory animals. The estimated single lethal dose-oral-human is 1.0 ml/kg.

I had read about the Diethylene today. Didn't want to post for fear of sounding like an alarmist. You just never can be sure what american made products may have a chinese counterfeit ingredient in it. So even if something's american made, we really can't trust it 100% unless we know where every ingredient came from. Makes you want to go back to the pioneer days & live off your own land.

 

[JustPuffin]

I read your post and asked my wife to answer.
Just Puffin

Dear JB Bishop
Sounds that you have a bunch of problems going. Panick attacks, meds, fibroM. Are you sure that is what you have? Main symptoms are muscle aches, tiredness, not mental symptoms. Drs diagnose fibromyalgia by testing a number of trigger points on the body. If you don't have a diagnosis, don't try to self diagnose. Just as other good people told you - see your DR and get to the bottom of it.
Sounds like you had panic attacks before and you are going the medical route for treatment. Some meds don't go together with nicotine that affects the brain.
If you suspect there is a build up of lactic acid, check out foods that contain it and cut them down. The main culprits are coffee, cola type soft drinks are a complete no-no. Alcohol is on the list as well and we know you do wine, coolers and rum. These are the worst offenders followed by meat, beans, sugar.
You need to clean out your diet big way, and this is besides going to the Dr. Most of them discount the diet and bad diet kills slowly just like cigs.
Maybe it is a good thing that all this came to the surface so that you can start dealing with these problems with open eyes, not just saying I'll take a valium and it will go away. Good thinking about straightening your metabolism, changing your food choices is the best way to do it.
When you read that a movie start started doing yoga, eating vegetarian food and drinking green tea, that most often means that they are trying to get rid of lactic acid and straighten out their metabolism to slim down and deal with their problems without meds.
Diana Drexler, the Herbal Lady
P.S. I am a non-smoker but I am thirilled that my husband has been on a e-cig for over 2 months now and his life is changing, and so is mine. I support him and e-cigs big time.

 

[Monkeylurv]

The thing about high strength liquid is that even that won't provide all the physical cues you get from smoking an analog, so you have to relearn what your body is telling you. You'll get a nicotine buzz, sure, but your body won't protest and say "enough" by making you immediately feel queasy and "smoked out". It's hard to describe, but take it easy on the high strength and you'll soon know to recognise how you feel when you've vaped enough.

"strayling"

I have a hard time with the nicotine overdose reasoning. Isn't it true that only 1/3 of the nicotine from vaping is actually absorbed? If so, it would take alot of vaping to get an overdose of nicotine. Even with 36mg & if they used 2 or 3ml of ejuice. That would be equivalent to 21-36 mg nic day - if the 1/3 rule were correct. About 26 - 45 analogs a day (2 or 3 ml). But most people don't use that much ejuice.

 

[jbbishop]

Thanks for your suggestions. Yes, well I do have a number of issues. The Fibro was diagnosed by a rather expensive Physiatrist that I consulted for the purpose of obtaining a qualified diagnosis by a recognized diagnostician. Doctors who do not specialize in Physiatry or Rheumatology are not generally recognized as being qualified to diagnose this condition. Fibromyalgia is a multifaceted and complex medical problem with panic disorder often being one of the major psychiatric symptoms. Additionally, it is probably true that I have some form of a non-specific connective tissue disorder among other orthopedic problems, and I really need to be consulting with a Rheumatologist on this.

That was my thought too, that some of these flavoring ingredients were at least part of what gave TW its good throat hit. People swear by TW for having the best throat hit regardless of the nicotine level.

 

[jbbishop]

With a new day comes a fresh perspective. Trying to get my morning nicotine fix I realize that one of the reasons this experience is not as satisfying to me is that I am not in fact getting as much nicotine as I need and I can't satiate the craving well with this 18mg solution using a super mini. I'm reminded of the constant disappointment and dissatisfaction that I always got whenever I was stuck with a pack of light cigarettes. No matter how many I smoked I never felt like I was getting my nicotine fix. With a regular cigarette, I can often just take a few drags and I'm fine. So the truth is that I've never been able to smoke light cigarettes and the last couple of years I've been smoking unfiltered (yuck). Thus the argument that one can just vape more doesn't seem to hold up any better than the idea that one can just smoke more light cigarettes. One big improvement for me will probably be the 24mg solution. I'll order some JC original this week and hope it tastes more like a cigarette than the Tennessee Cured.

 

[TropicalBob]

I have the same problem getting sufficient nicotine from e-smoking. Even using 36mg liquid. But one point in this interesting discussion needs clarification:

Isn't it true that only 1/3 of the nicotine from vaping is actually absorbed?

The New Zealand studies of e-smoking show that 98.9% of the inhaled nicotine from e-smoking is absorbed. That's an amazing percentage. But the same doctor says that on a per-puff basis, we get only one-fifth the nicotine of a regular cigarette inhalation (using 16mg liquid). So we have to do five puffs to equal one cigarette inhalation.

It's a lot of e-smoking, which is why so many report non-stop use of the e-cig. And, used that way, e-smoking does not deliver the 7-second kick following that first inhalation from a tobacco cigarette. We are all eagerly awaiting tests showing nicotine blood levels, so we can compare e-smoking to cigarettes, snus and other forms of tobacco use.

 

[jbbishop]

So where can you buy tobacco flavored 36mg. VG? It appears you need to make your own. There's JC with their varieties of 24mg. VG, 15m. and 30ml. for $10 and $20 respectively. There's Eastmall with 100 ml. unflavored 36mg. VG for $50 and Jaaxx is selling 15ml. and 30ml. of the unflavored 36mg. VG for $10 and $20 respectively. It is interesting that on his site Jaaxx states that the higher nicotine content does deliver more "hit" and flavor.

It was posted that all the other suppliers measure nicotine content as mgs./ml. but that JC is measured as mgs./1.2ml. Nothing seems more likely than that they are buying the unflavored PG and VG preparations and mixing in their own custom flavorings. They do appear to at least make their own tobacco flavors.

 

[jbbishop]

Just an update. I'm currently using a mixture of about 1/2 and 1/2 of the TW 36mg Marlboro (slightly diluted with glycerine) and the JC non-pg 18mg Tennessee Flue Cured. I estimate the PG content to be around 30%. I estimate the nicotine content to be around 23mg/ml.

I'm not having any health problems. I'm still finding it difficult to get enough nicotine, especially in the morning so I think I'm vaping more than I would be otherwise.

I am on day three of not having a cigarette this time, but it was more difficult to make the switch.

The combination of the JC liquid and the glycerine still has a candy sweetness I don't find that appealing and the JC liquid is a little thin so you get some in the mouthpiece. But the mixture of the JC and the TW is a lot more palatable for me. I am looking forward to trying the JC original.

I ordered some unflavored 36mg vg from Jaaxx and some menthol crystals and will mix this up with what I have... Maybe I'll try some vanillin crystals and am considering a tobacco absolute.

 

[jbbishop]

Visited my doctor today. She seemed to like the electronic cigarette concept and was pleased I'd quit smoking tobacco. I think she's looking forward to following up with me to see how well it works.

 

[jbbishop]

Just another update. I was able to get used to this after about a day: About a 50/50 cut of TW (or Eastmall) 36mg. Marlboro and the JC Tennessee cured 18mg. non-pg and while a little weak for me nicotine wise it did indeed do the trick.

I originally complained because the Tennessee cured was too strong in flavor - as in too much like pipe tobacco for a regular smoke and tasted somewhat fruity. Then after I mixed it about half and half with TW Marlboro 36 mg. I don't believe I will EVER find any smoke juice ANYWHERE that tastes more satisfyingly like real tobacco and very pleasant to boot mixed up properly. Sad that the JC is still a little runny even when cut like that.

Then I was left with about 8ml. of TW 36mg. Marlboro and 8ml. JC TC 18mg. non-pg plus another 30ml. JC original 24mg. non-pg and this 15ml. 36mg. unflavored vg from JAAXX (It looks more like he sent me a 30ml. bottle by mistake). So I decided to mix them all up together. It feels like I'm smoking 11mg. nicotine solution and can barely hold out 'til my next bottle comes from TW on Friday. I can't get no satisfaction.

As long as there are reliable suppliers with ready made supplies, provided you can get the strength you need I can't see diluting anything with unflavored because of the loss of flavor.

The only solution for me unless I can find a way of making a suitable tobbaco flavored liquid myself (very doubtful) is this combination of the TW 36mg. and the JC non-pg TC. 24 mg. I needs my nicotine, and wants my flavor. If too high in nicotine for constant use at this level I might dilute a bit with plain glycerine particularly if a few vanillin crystals or occasional menthol may compensate for any sacrifice in flavor. A next step would be to order the unfortunately necessary pg formulation in larger quantities from Eastmall who also has that 36mg. Marlboro in 100ml for $50 + $15 shipping. Fortunately I have been able to avoid the health problems if not using the pg formulation by itself. Gotta stock up ya know. Unfortunately, Eastmall just doesn't have the parts for my super mini.

 

[apathyps]

ive got some anxiety issues, take benzo's every now and then to manage. never had a panic attack though. i know nicotine helps me maintain my anxiety levels.

i noticed that a lot of people reccomended that you lower your mg/ml content in the juice you are using, and further noticed that you had obliged.

personally, i wouldnt consider myself a heavy smoker at all. i was going through 1-3 packs a week at most. usually i would smoke about 7 cigarettes a day when i was smoking Nat Sherman MCD's. if i was smoking parliaments or camels, usually that went up to anywhere from half a pack to a pack a day.

the reason i switched to the Nat Sherman's was because they are "additive free". although they are around $8.30 a pack now, to me they were absolutely worth the price as they tasted great, had higher nicotine content than mainstream cigarettes, and had NO ADDED CHEMICALS.

since the day i received my dse901/kissbox, i haven't taken a single drag from a real cigarette.

i purchased a bunch of different flavors and various levels of juice. so far i have been using the 16mg and 18mg the most. occasionally i use the 24mg and 36mg, but i have to vape a lot less when i do this, otherwise i get a little woozy. the 36mg is great for a little nicotine buzz, or when yo0 don't have much time to vape, but its definitely too strong for me to use all day long.

sounds like you've found the right mix for yourself though.

hope it all works out for you.

 

[mpetva]

Hi,

I'm new to e-cigs and reading a lot on this forum.
I am the proud owner of a DSE 901 and have been using it for about a week.

As someone new to this forum, I find it very confusing when a lot of abbreviations are used.
I have been trying to figure out what
TW -PG - NG - JC - VG and all the others mean ????

I understand that a lot of you have been here a while, but please, when you post, keep us newbies in mind and try to use fewer abbreviations. I know it's more work, but it would really help us.

Even without all the abbreviations the world of e-cigs is confusing enough, LOL

Thanks

PS: Please do not take offense, I am just trying to point out something

 

[Tallgirl1974]

Hi,


I have been trying to figure out what
TW -PG - NG - JC - VG and all the others mean ????

I understand that a lot of you have been here a while, but please, when you post, keep us newbies in mind and try to use fewer abbreviations. I know it's more work, but it would really help us.

Even without all the abbreviations the world of e-cigs is confusing enough, LOL
Thanks
PS: Please do not take offense, I am just trying to point out something

I'm so offended. (not)
I'm a newbie here but have been reading for a long time and I STILL don't know what some mean.

Its like we get to witness the birth of a whole new slang- I keep trying to make up a word that will catch on for these things...I got nothing....

 

[Krakkan]

Also a lot of folks go through a withdrawal from the other 3999 chemicals in analogs from which have been reported anxiety nausea and nightmares. So I wouldn't doubt your panic attacks being related to the strange feeling your body is having from flushing the other carcigens. But either way see a Dr. and cut your NIC intake down.

 

[paladinx]

so , e-smoking can cause panic attacks and heart palps? That is def not good for me because I hate heart palpitations and I do have some anxiety problems. I really really wouldnt want to excacerb ate any of those problems! Any others can chime in on this e smoking and heart palps and/or anxiety??


I also find it fascinating how information continually contradicts on this forum. Everyone is saying you get too much nicotine, OD OD becareful nicotine poisening. then on the other hand, tests are saying you get 1/5th the amount. wtf is going on here? Is it really the nicotine then?? Some are saying e smoking is too weak others say its too strong.. like which is it?

 

[lorraineg57]

so , e-smoking can cause panic attacks and heart palps? That is def not good for me because I hate heart palpitations and I do have some anxiety problems. I really really wouldnt want to excacerb ate any of those problems! Any others can chime in on this e smoking and heart palps and/or anxiety??


I also find it fascinating how information continually contradicts on this forum. Everyone is saying you get too much nicotine, OD OD becareful nicotine poisening. then on the other hand, tests are saying you get 1/5th the amount. wtf is going on here? Is it really the nicotine then?? Some are saying e smoking is too weak others say its too strong.. like which is it?

I have Mitral Valve Prolapse which can cause palpitations. I've noticed no problems with vaping. I do vape very little though as I'm still trying to find a mixture/taste I can live with.

I think a lot of people who are moderate/heavy smokers assume they'll need a high mg juice. Which they may, if they smoke in the same manner they smoked analogs. Take 7-8 hits, put it out. Light up another a half-hour/hour later. With vaping though, it's a new thing so they're playing with it all the time. When an analog is done, it's done. An e-cig is never "done", there's no visual trigger to get you to stop, so it's easy to just keep vaping and not be aware of how that high nic content which might be fine if smoked sporadically is building up to a level that can cause symptoms...

 

[mjones]

Check with your doctor for sure, but I take about 2 500mgs of valerian root in capsule form about every other day. Valerian is the natural substance template they produce valium with.

You can buy valerian from any Walgreens, Wally World type place. Valerian is a nature muscle relaxer and sleep aid, with many other uses. I find the the muscle cramps I get are lessened when I take a few valerian. Just make sure you don't drink alot with valerian, as it can give your liver a workout. I personally find valerian very helpful when I need it from time to time. I would deff ask your doctor if you are ok to take valerian first just to be safe. It takes 24mg juice to really get me to a stop point, I find the 18mg I suck up like a hoover most the time.