Flavoring revisited

[Brian S]

Brian,
I could taste peppermint (Bickford's by the way), but the menthol was pretty powerful. Maybe my next try will be to skip the alcohol and use your idea of melting the crystals in Bickford's. I also have Creme DeMenthe Bickford's which is a bit stronger taste than the peppermint, but it's just a little bottle. Perhaps the sacrifice is worth it.

I tried the Bickfords but didn't find it to have much flavor at all and threw it out. That is what prompted me to try other things. Jane's menthol is not bad by the way. More flavor than most. Just not enough for me. I plan to use it as a base for my experiments.

Brian

 

[TropicalBob]

I'm sorry, but after some thought I've decided I have to answer jitig's post. I was going to let it go, but if I don't respond, some newbie might think he's correct. He isn't.

If you read the first post in this thread, you'll find we are talking about fragrance oils as opposed to flavor oils. Yes, they are different. I was writing about accidentally discovering the impact of fragrance oils in our e-liquid mix. They seem to be -- seem being the operative word -- far more powerful that flavor oils. They seem more concentrated. Thus, a very small amount has an impact -- on the taste of the vapor.

Taste and aroma go hand-in-hand. And if you read the long Atlantic Monthly article on perfumers, you'll find that virtually all franchise food you eat has both oils added. Even the color of the hamburger bun is chemically controlled for that precise tan look. Appearance, aroma and taste are all chemically adjusted. Aroma might be the biggest deal of all; the fast food folks make sure your food smells great! It could be shoe leather, but it would smell great. Point being that you already consume aroma oils. They're GRAS.

And anyone who at this point didn't know what GRAS means is someone who shouldn't be posting on this topic.

Then there's this:

TropicalBob, you are supposed to do the filtering before simmering not after.

Why would anyone filter pure water before cooking tobacco? This shows a complete lack of understanding of how home brew is created. I am relating experiences with what I've done. I don't pull out a slide rule and a middle school pre-algebra text book to find a formula on page 37 to impress those without knowledge.

'nuff said. I'll be cautious with my experiments. The rest of you please do the same. Jitig ruined the other thread on home brew, so I started this one. He'll ruin it too, I guess, but I'm finished with him. And, hey, I'm sure Dr. Loi has a lot of explaining to do to Mihai. Puh-leeeeze.

 

[Janet]

i lose....

Awwww Rorschach, no you didn't, not with me anyway. I'm not done 'sperimenting yet! Nature's Gifts looks like an OK company to me. However, I also think candle scenting oil used in miniscule amounts couldn't hurt. I'll go to both the sites and read more. A scientist's work is never done....

 

[jigtg]

I'm sorry, but after some thought I've decided I have to answer jitig's post. I was going to let it go, but if I don't respond, some newbie might think he's correct. He isn't.

If you read the first post in this thread, you'll find we are talking about fragrance oils as opposed to flavor oils. Yes, they are different. I was writing about accidentally discovering the impact of fragrance oils in our e-liquid mix. They seem to be -- seem being the operative word -- far more powerful that flavor oils. They seem more concentrated. Thus, a very small amount has an impact -- on the taste of the vapor.

Taste and aroma go hand-in-hand. And if you read the long Atlantic Monthly article on perfumers, you'll find that virtually all franchise food you eat has both oils added. Even the color of the hamburger bun is chemically controlled for that precise tan look. Appearance, aroma and taste are all chemically adjusted. Aroma might be the biggest deal of all; the fast food folks make sure your food smells great! It could be shoe leather, but it would smell great. Point being that you already consume aroma oils. They're GRAS.

You need to back up your claims with references. Just because some substance is GRAS doesn't mean it ADI calculations do not apply to it. Now I know you don't like math so just list the references.

And anyone who at this point didn't know what GRAS means is someone who shouldn't be posting on this topic.

Perhaps you should go and review who discovered this program in the first place.

Then there's this: Why would anyone filter pure water before cooking tobacco? This shows a complete lack of understanding of how home brew is created. I am relating experiences with what I've done. I don't pull out a slide rule and a middle school pre-algebra text book to find a formula on page 37 to impress those without knowledge.

I though you were filtering after evaporating water. Clearly it is better to filter before evaporating water.

'nuff said. I'll be cautious with my experiments. The rest of you please do the same.

Strapping ten health monitors to your body and holding pipette(or toothpick) with two hands isn't going to make it much safer. Relaying on JECFA recommendations on the other hand does. Good example of poor judgement is http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/new-members-forum/2097-menthol.html in which people continue to abuse menthol even though I just showed them wrong. They wouldn't have to exceed JECFA recommendations if they were right. My reasoning here is same I used on (infamous?) "a nicotine extraction method" thread. You shouldn't drag in people that cannot for themselves determine what is safe for them. Heck, I don't even know how safe it is but at least I roughly know the risks involved.
So that is why I think you should first somehow justify your tests.

Jitig ruined the other thread on home brew, so I started this one. He'll ruin it too, I guess, but I'm finished with him.

I don't think it was me alone who ruined that thread. I merely wanted to demonstrate that going out of line doesn't help.

 

[Brian S]

Brian,
I could taste peppermint (Bickford's by the way), but the menthol was pretty powerful. Maybe my next try will be to skip the alcohol and use your idea of melting the crystals in Bickford's. I also have Creme DeMenthe Bickford's which is a bit stronger taste than the peppermint, but it's just a little bottle. Perhaps the sacrifice is worth it.

OK, tried the menthol crystals. Stuck 1 crystal in about 1ml of juice in my drip bottle and put it in some water I heated in the microwave. The crystal easily disolved in the warm juice. Dropped a couple of drops on my atomizer. This is what I've been looking for. Menthol not mint flavor. Think I can finally give up on the analog cigs now.

Brian

 

[jigtg]

See what I mean?
Crystal size of an one drop from 3ml pipette(22 drops per ml) would give you
(1/22)/(1+(1/22)) = 4.3%
Clearly I am wasting my time here.

 

[MagusSteele]

Let us know how it goes Brian.
Its been years since I had a menthol smoke. They used to make me cough like crazy.

I am wondering, since its crystal, if continued use will effect the atomizer. (even in such small amounts)

 

[Brian S]

Let us know how it goes Brian.
Its been years since I had a menthol smoke. They used to make me cough like crazy.

I am wondering, since its crystal, if continued use will effect the atomizer. (even in such small amounts)

It turns to a liquid when melted. The crystal is a byproduct of mint oil. All the mint, none of the oil LOL. All the e-juices I tried except for JC made me cough. A dash of menthol and I can take a deep lung filling drag. It will be a few days before I know how it affects an atomizer.

Brian

 

[Rorschach]

Awwww Rorschach, no you didn't, not with me anyway. I'm not done 'sperimenting yet! Nature's Gifts looks like an OK company to me. However, I also think candle scenting oil used in miniscule amounts couldn't hurt. I'll go to both the sites and read more. A scientist's work is never done....

Thank Janet
TB, that Dad's Pipe Tobacco is a fragrance oil, not an absolute or essential oil right? So that means it's pre-diluted (to the best of my knowledge)?

I order from this site:
Natural Perfumery Ingredients

That stuff's undiluted and $2 for 2mL. But the 2mL needs to be diluted like 10% to 90% carrier oil. I accidentally got some undiluted on my finger the other day and it felt pretty weird. Hope that doesn't scare anybody.

Then again, it might be safer to go with the fragrance oil since it's already diluted.

I can vouch for the above vendor, the Perfumer's Apprentice though. The lady who runs it is really friendly and always answers my questions promptly.

 

[TropicalBob]

Correct on the Dad's Pipe. It's a fragrance oil, not an essential or absolute oil. Your link shows the tobacco absolute. Keep in mind that tobacco absolute is listed as an ingredient in E-Cig's e-liquid. Some of us have been inhaling that for quite awhile. But the amount would be extremely small, I'm sure. Even with diluted fragrance, I'd still use a soaked toothpick to move aroma to liquid mix. No drips or eyedropper quantities. And I've been a little leery of using tobacco absolute. Very concentrated stuff (but no nicotine, most sellers say).

When I was searching around one day, I found that the biggest buyer of tobacco absolute is ... Big Tobacco!

 

[Rorschach]

Really? Is that what they put in our death sticks?

That just seems so lame of them....

I'm going to order some tobacco absolute in a few days from the above site.

 

[Janet]

I'm having fun with LorAnn's flavors. I found them at my local Acme grocery store! Some are stronger than others. I tried Orange Cream - about 25 drops in a SweetBreath bottle (holds 3ml) and filled up the rest with PG. Yum. Strawberry, about half and half.

I found some liquid soap/candle scents at Pat Catan's Arts and Crafts and bought the Cookie Dough scent. Tried TBob's toothpick method, and yuck! - didn't taste like cookie dough. Tasted like soap. The stuff sure smells good though. I just might have to make a candle or some soap now. TBob, do you know the brand of peach soap/candle scent you used?

Then I got my $3.00 sample pack of essential oil from Nature's Gift and tried TBob's soap/candle scent method. I tried it with Ginger. Dipped a toothpick into the little vial it comes in for a couple of seconds, then dipped it into a full 3ml bottle of PG and stirred it for about 5 seconds; not much taste. I repeated this twice and now have a very pleasant Ginger flavored e-liquid. I'm sure this would work with nic juice. I do use low nic juice from time to time. I think a little nicotine is actually good for you.

I just love it when stuff works!

 

[TropicalBob]

Whoa, cookie dough! Sorry it didn't work.

It's been so long since I bought that peach liquid that I don't remember where I got it. But I do know it won't be a part of my regular use. It actually scents the air when I exhale the vapor. Don't want that. I still look forward to eventually trying tobacco absolute, however. I was hoping someone else would try and post the results before I spent $12.

Experimenting is great fun, though!

 

[Kate]

I worry about the safety of inhaling scents, there could be all sorts of toxins in them especially when they aren't even food safe.

Sorry to be a wet blanket, I know you're adults and responsible for your own decisions but I just want you to be careful ... please. I'd hate for anything bad to happen to my esmoking comrades.

 

[Janet]

Yes Mother Superior, you are right, as always. I am a bit of a risk taker.8-o I feel pretty safe though with the Ginger essential oil from Nature's Gift. I went to Acme again today to check if their Christmas supply has come in yet. They told me any day now. They let me look at their catalog to show what flavors will be included in their whole display. There are also extra flavors that aren't included. I put in a special order, including Pralenes and Cream - and they're gonna call me when the new supply along with my special requests come in. Hopefully, I'll be able to get my Peach fix when they do.

 

[Kate]

I bet you'll love pralines and cream, it's good stuff.

With essential oils you get what you're told you get - the essence of a single plant. They're not supposed to have added chemicals so you can be more sure of what you're testing. If you get an immediate physical reaction you know what you're reacting to with essential oil so that's better than cocktails of chemicals like scents.

Messing about with mixes is great, I think esmoking is loads better than smoking.

 

[jarvis]

Hey TobaccoBob, have you ever tried soaking a packet of snus in the e-liquid to give it some tobacco flavor? It's already in it's own filter bag, I may give it a shot with this janty licorice I bought as it has no flavor to speak of.

 

[jarvis]

Sorry TropicalBob, just noticed I called you TobaccoBob in the previous post. I've just had a new brainstorm, how about puffing some tobacco through a water pipe like this http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.9279 and then using that water, which would surely have some smokey flavoring, to make smoke juice?

 

[TropicalBob]

Actually, I tried that. The water stunk so bad I couldn't see using it. I poured it down the drain. I've posted before that to get commercial smoke liquid, the companies run smokey air through plastic tubing that is super-cooled to condense out moisture drops: instant liquid smoke. If I can only duplicate that ... so far, failures.

Hey, TobaccoBob is not far off!

 

[jarvis]

Well, just crammed two packets of 1847 into my bottle of liquorice from janty that had no flavor. I'll let it sit for a week or two and then take the snus out and syringe the liquid they've absorbed back into the bottle.