Fox & Friends Interview

[AttyPops]

Thanks for that chart DaveP. It's a bit irritating though since the decimal points make the quantities hard to decipher since formatting is not consistent for all cells. So those reading it may wish to double-check magnitude.

I was rather surprised at the numbers. e-juice came in lower in most respects than NRTs.

 

[DaveP]

Thanks, DC2 for clarifying the finding of DEG in the Smoking Everywhere test. I forgot to mention that. It was suspected to be from a contaminated drum in the factory. Maybe someone spilled or used DEG somewhere and introduced the DEG into ecig juice somehow. Who knows. That said, I hope QC goes on daily to prevent it from happening again. You have to wonder if the contamination could have occurred stateside or in the testing lab. If it was a problem, we'd hear more about it.

I'd like to see more testing of product just to ease the minds of the people. The FDA is strangely silent about testing and you know that they have done more than the 2009 test. If anything else were found, I'm sure we'd hear about it through national news outlets.

 

[DaveP]

Thanks for that chart DaveP. It's a bit irritating though since the decimal points make the quantities hard to decipher since formatting is not consistent for all cells. So those reading it may wish to double-check magnitude.

I was rather surprised at the numbers. e-juice came in lower in most respects than NRTs.

I don't have the numbers, but as you probably know, Nitrite and Nitrosamines occur in many foods we eat. Those affect the stomach and digestive system and not the lungs, but they are there. The cooking process causes formation of suspect compounds. Fried foods are worst. Life is a process of destruction that ends for everyone at some point. None of us can live in a bubble.

 

[wv2win]

Why does this matter? Are people supposed to vote differently based on what party the politicians are in who support taxes and bans on vaping? Arent there more substantial issues on which to base what party you vote for? lol

First, I don't vote by party but by the positions of the individual running for office.

Second, I consider myself a moderate and unfortunately there are few of those in either party but hardly any in the Democratic party.

Third, the senators mentioned in the post are all liberals and thus I don't agree with them on hardly any issues and especially from a vaping standpoint.

Fourth, and most important, I would not vote for any politician that is against a life saving alternative for a large segment of the American public. How in the world can you trust an elected official with what you call "more substantial issues" when they have no problem preventing the availability a life saving alternative for millions of Americans??? In fact, I would work to get them defeated.

I'm a registered Independent and vote on common sense, political positions and the facts as best as they can be ascertained, not by party. And the "facts" are clear, that those who are politically liberal are against vaping as well as allowing people to live their lives without the heavy hand of the government in their back pocket.

 

[Altaire Versailles]

Well at this point "the left" has had 4.5 years in power and in that time my paycheck got smaller and my tax bill went up. So yeah I am pretty tapped out on taxes at the moment. All I heard during the last 2 Presidential campaigns was if you made less than $250K your taxes would not go up by one cent. What a load of horse $... that was.

? I mean I'm not trying to argue who you should vote for because it really doesnt matter to me because I dont see either party representing my interests by and large, but to blame the democrats for the last 12 years isnt really fair. But if thats how you want to view it, thats gonna be valid for you, so...

But yeah taxes are out of control. I wouldnt mind the taxes so much if they were going toward positive causes I believed in...a huge chunk of it's just going to protect us from all the people who hate this country because of the cruel and selfish things the government does and has done around the world. Republicans are so angry with the Obama admin, I really dont understand what they're doing thats so unconservative, honestly. He folded on almost every progressive issue he ran on, save health care, and then he even backpedaled on that as well. But mark my words, when the republicans get a decent candidate together and win an election again, our taxes are NOT going down and the NWO agenda will continue to move forward because, again, the objective is not to make things easier for everyday working class folks, there's no focus on improving everyones lives or making sure we have more money or more freedoms, thats why that ISN'T HAPPENING. The objective is to use the lower and middle class as a resource of the wealthy class to generate income and power. This isnt new politics, its new to 20th century Americans. Every government eventually ends up going down this road until it fails and a new power rises.

 

[Altaire Versailles]

Fourth, and most important, I would not vote for any politician that is against a life saving alternative for a large segment of the American public. How in the world can you trust an elected official with what you call "more substantial issues" when they have no problem preventing the availability a life saving alternative for millions of Americans??? In fact, I would work to get them defeated.

I'm a registered Independent and vote on common sense, political positions and the facts as best as they can be ascertained, not by party. And the "facts" are clear, that those who are politically liberal are against vaping as well as allowing people to live their lives without the heavy hand of the government in their back pocket.

I hear you, and a lot of the issues I side with republicans on have to do with not trying to control every little aspect of peoples lives. At the same time, me personally, Im not voting based on AN issue. When I vote I look at what the biggest issues are and whether or not its likely that person could or would push to make the change I want to see happen on the most important issue or issues. Most of the time it doesnt happen anyway, but thats how I vote. I wouldnt back or not back somebody based on whether or not they supported vaping, honestly, its not a big issue. I believe strongly in personal responsibility, and if youre an adult its your choice whether or not you want to sacrifice your health for smoking, or not exercising, or eating poorly, or living next to a garbage incinerator, whatever, its your choice, nobody has to allow you or not allow you to not smoke. Its not any politicians fault if people choose to smoke because they cant get vaping materials. If vaping ever gets banned Im just going to not vape. Well I probably wont be in this country by the time that happened anyway, but...Id just say oh well, on to other business.

 

[ScottP]

? I mean I'm not trying to argue who you should vote for because it really doesnt matter because I dont see either party representing my interests by and large, but to blame the democrats for the last 12 years isnt really fair. But if thats how you want to view it, thats gonna be valid for you, so...

I guess what I am saying is I don't vote the news. I don't vote based on propaganda. I don't care about the religion of a candidate, where they were born, if they are left or right, or even what special interest groups they may or may not support. I vote based on what affects me the most...my own personal paycheck, my own personal tax liability, and my own personal quality of life. in the last 4.5 years all of that has gone in the wrong direction. Ergo, I will be voting against ALL incumbents in the next 2 elections (2014 and 2016). Then I will retake stock of how things are again. The ONLY issue that I would ever allow to override the above voting criteria is what i would consider Constitutional Liberties. Anyone that tries to take away or hinder these rights will always be a "no" in my book.

Honestly in too many recent elections I found myself wishing that there was a "None of the Above" option that if it won both parties had to start over and give us new candidates. I really hate having to decide between a douche and a turd.

 

[DC2]

I really hate having to decide between a douche and a turd.

I believe it is Giant Douche and Turd Sandwich...
Debate 2004 - Video Clips - South Park Studios

 

[ScottP]

I believe it is Giant Douche and Turd Sandwich...
Debate 2004 - Video Clips - South Park Studios

Yes, those were indeed the candidate names in that episode to which I was referring. The Episode name was simply "Douche and Turd".
Gotta love how South Park seems to always put things into perspective.

 

[TampaToker69]

Was Tucker Carlson on this episode? That guy chews 5 nicorrettes at a time whilst smoking Marlboro reds... Atleast that's hat I heard on the Bubba the love sponge show.... BUBBA ARMY!!!

 

[degnr8]

This isn't the first time the FDA has banned things with no real evidence that later turned out to be safe. They managed to ban absinthe for over 100 years based on one case in which a man drank over a gallon (bear in mind the weakest of absinthes is 144 proof) before killing his family

 

[Altaire Versailles]

I guess what I am saying is I don't vote the news. I don't vote based on propaganda. I don't care about the religion of a candidate, where they were born, if they are left or right, or even what special interest groups they may or may not support. I vote based on what affects me the most...my own personal paycheck, my own personal tax liability, and my own personal quality of life. in the last 4.5 years all of that has gone in the wrong direction. Ergo, I will be voting against ALL incumbents in the next 2 elections (2014 and 2016). Then I will retake stock of how things are again. The ONLY issue that I would ever allow to override the above voting criteria is what i would consider Constitutional Liberties. Anyone that tries to take away or hinder these rights will always be a "no" in my book.

Honestly in too many recent elections I found myself wishing that there was a "None of the Above" option that if it won both parties had to start over and give us new candidates. I really hate having to decide between a douche and a turd.

Hmm, if youre gonna not vote for a candidate because theyre gonna take away liberties I guess you wont be voting because I sincerely doubt things will ever go in that direction again. Thier objective isnt to give us back any liberties, the objective is to make us get used to living without them so when they take away others it doesnt seem so drastic of a move.

And there are other candidates, a lot of them. Ever wondered why the media isnt in support of you knowing who any of them are or what thier positions are, other than the democratic and republican candidates? Democracy at its best, right?

 

[DaveP]

? I mean I'm not trying to argue who you should vote for because it really doesnt matter to me because I dont see either party representing my interests by and large, but to blame the democrats for the last 12 years isnt really fair. But if thats how you want to view it, thats gonna be valid for you, so...

But yeah taxes are out of control. I wouldnt mind the taxes so much if they were going toward positive causes I believed in...a huge chunk of it's just going to protect us from all the people who hate this country because of the cruel and selfish things the government does and has done around the world. Republicans are so angry with the Obama admin, I really dont understand what they're doing thats so unconservative, honestly. He folded on almost every progressive issue he ran on, save health care, and then he even backpedaled on that as well. But mark my words, when the republicans get a decent candidate together and win an election again, our taxes are NOT going down and the NWO agenda will continue to move forward because, again, the objective is not to make things easier for everyday working class folks, there's no focus on improving everyones lives or making sure we have more money or more freedoms, thats why that ISN'T HAPPENING. The objective is to use the lower and middle class as a resource of the wealthy class to generate income and power. This isnt new politics, its new to 20th century Americans. Every government eventually ends up going down this road until it fails and a new power rises.

The largest concerns are debt, personal freedoms, and the bypassing of Congress to gather information in the name of fighting terrorism. We could use a little restraint in the spending department. After all, we have $16T in debt to deal with. About $11T of that is above what's considered to be the norm. We can't continue at the current pace or we will see over $20T by the end of the current administration.

No matter which party is in power, Congress will still fight from one side or the other to reign in the policies of the party in charge. Checks and Balances are the cornerstone of our government. Taxes are out of control because spending is out of control.

Taxes won't go up and will probably be adjusted somewhat downward under a Republican president. Yes, conservative beliefs extend to the abilities of the rich to build infrastructure and provide jobs. It's unfortunate that we officially compete with the world in terms of wages, but I don't see $30 hour pay rates returning for repetitive work in factories. Education will yield those salaries for those who are savvy enough to realize that high tech is where the money is these days. Those marginally trained workers who expect to be taught on the job will generally be in the lower range of pay. Tech schools are the path to success in the job field if you want a $60k to $80K job in today's world. Cars and other complex products are built by robotics. Run, maintain, and design them and you get the big bucks.

 

[Penn]

Thanks, DC2 for clarifying the finding of DEG in the Smoking Everywhere test. I forgot to mention that. It was suspected to be from a contaminated drum in the factory. Maybe someone spilled or used DEG somewhere and introduced the DEG into ecig juice somehow. Who knows. That said, I hope QC goes on daily to prevent it from happening again. You have to wonder if the contamination could have occurred stateside or in the testing lab. If it was a problem, we'd hear more about it.

I'd like to see more testing of product just to ease the minds of the people. The FDA is strangely silent about testing and you know that they have done more than the 2009 test. If anything else were found, I'm sure we'd hear about it through national news outlets.

I'd also like to see tests they've done since then. Some here may want to spit nails at me when I say why.

I found I was having tightness in the chest after using 1 particular flavor from 1 brand. I started researching ingredients in different brands and flavors and came across a page I now can't find. In that page a person claimed to have analyzed multiple flavors, including non-tobacco flavors. What was found allegedly was the only ones that had nitrosamines in levels that the previous chart listed were tobacco flavors. Fruits had zero or very close to zero.

I will try again later to find the original page I read that on but I'd like to see if others came up with the same results. If so it would reinforce my decision to not vape tobacco flavors.

FWI - I didn't choose to avoid tobacco flavors due to this, I just wanted to be one further step away from smoking by not having anything that tasted like it.

 

[KerryK]

This isn't the first time the FDA has banned things with no real evidence that later turned out to be safe. They managed to ban absinthe for over 100 years based on one case in which a man drank over a gallon (bear in mind the weakest of absinthes is 144 proof) before killing his family

There was no FDA in 1912 when Absinthe was banned in the US.

 

[DaveP]

I'd also like to see tests they've done since then. Some here may want to spit nails at me when I say why.

I found I was having tightness in the chest after using 1 particular flavor from 1 brand. I started researching ingredients in different brands and flavors and came across a page I now can't find. In that page a person claimed to have analyzed multiple flavors, including non-tobacco flavors. What was found allegedly was the only ones that had nitrosamines in levels that the previous chart listed were tobacco flavors. Fruits had zero or very close to zero.

I will try again later to find the original page I read that on but I'd like to see if others came up with the same results. If so it would reinforce my decision to not vape tobacco flavors.

FWI - I didn't choose to avoid tobacco flavors due to this, I just wanted to be one further step away from smoking by not having anything that tasted like it.

Nitrosamines are a byproduct of extracting nicotine from tobacco. Stick to non-tobacco juices and you will be virtually TSNA free. It's probably not the TSNAs that are the cuplrit if you experience tightness in the chest. It's probably more related to inhaling PG or VG. Try holding it in your mouth to absorb the nic to see if it gets better. Most of the nic absorption is through mucous membranes anyway. Sometimes, when I inhale too much too frequently I get a low end tightness and short of breath feeling kind of like what I experience when I have a chest cold. I try to inhale just enough to be able to exhale through my nose most of the time.

It's funny though, I ride 5 miles a day on my stationary bike and do about 125 reps with a curl bar and don't even breathe hard. My pulse goes up about 20 points by the end of my workout and backs down in a minute or so when I return to low resistance for the cool down on the bike. With me, I'm sure it's inhaling too much PG when I experience any lung symptoms. Backing off on the inhaling fixes the problem.

 

[Penn]

The tightness in the chest wasn't relevant to the point about TSNA's. Researching the tightness is merely how I found that info. But since that is something you elaborated on, it was the flavor additive that caused it. I now know if it has a description of "creamy" without stating vanilla is what gives the creamy, I should stay away. It makes sense since I don't do to well with cream soda. My initial thoughts from reading here was it might be PG of VG but fortunately it wasn't.

Just to be clear are you saying it is known for sure that at least most non-tobacco flavored juices don't have TSNA's even if they have nicotine?

 

[degnr8]

There was no FDA in 1912 when Absinthe was banned in the US.

That's true, but the federal government instituted the ban and the FDA kept it in effect after they'd been formed.

 

[DaveP]

The tightness in the chest wasn't relevant to the point about TSNA's. Researching the tightness is merely how I found that info. But since that is something you elaborated on, it was the flavor additive that caused it. I now know if it has a description of "creamy" without stating vanilla is what gives the creamy, I should stay away. It makes sense since I don't do to well with cream soda. My initial thoughts from reading here was it might be PG of VG but fortunately it wasn't.

Just to be clear are you saying it is known for sure that at least most non-tobacco flavored juices don't have TSNA's even if they have nicotine?

It depends on whether the tobacco flavors use WTA (whole tobacco alkoloids) or just nicotine extract. Any nicotine based juice will have some level of TSNA content. The difference in TSNA levels between smoking a cigarette and vaping the equivalent amount of nic based juice is somewhere in the range of 150/1 with vaping being 1. Pharmaceutical nic that is generally used by juice manufacturers is pretty pure stuff with what the FDA considers trace levels of TSNA.

 

[AttyPops]

It depends on whether the tobacco flavors use WTA (whole tobacco alkoloids) or just nicotine extract. Any nicotine based juice will have some level of TSNA content. The difference in TSNA levels between smoking a cigarette and vaping the equivalent amount of nic based juice is somewhere in the range of 150/1 with vaping being 1. Pharmaceutical nic that is generally used by juice manufacturers is pretty pure stuff with what the FDA considers trace levels of TSNA.

I purchased a disposable when my PV died and I was out-and-about on what turned out to be a long errand. I've been living dangerously not bringing spares with me (like if you forgot your cigs or a spare pack when you smoked). Anyway after vaping on it, I noticed that it was "absolute tobacco" flavor. Tobacco Absolute??????? TA?

DANG! I avoid that as a personal choice. Dang dang dang. I so don't want TA in my juice. But that's me. Others seek it out.

So my TNSA exposure went up. Grrrrr...........

Who knows with this stuff?