Freezing

[Philabos]

Been DIY for a month or so and have been fairly successful with tobacco flavors, a little less so with custard but I know that takes time.
After searching around here and some other sites, it appears possible to freeze eliquids.
On the theory that hope is not a plan, I am considering making and freezing a supply of 100ml of eliquid in Amber glass bottles for long term storage. I understand there may be some flavor degradation but it would certainly beat nothing at all.
Curious if anyone has any thoughts or experience before I spend a lot of time and money on my plan.
Thanks.

 

[Izan]

Hi,
100ml is not much juice. Are you trying to hide it from yourself while it steeps?
I make 500ml of Double RY-4 base 10% and 10mg/ml 40%PG. The wife and I use it over 2-3 months and as the bottle gets low I make another so it can steep for 20 odd days before I NEED it.

Why not store the nicotine base and the concentrates separately and then mix when needed?
Nicotine base is fine in the deep freeze. Concentrates should be stored in a cool,dry,dark location.
What do you mean by" On the theory that hope is not a plan"?
Why would you have nothing at all?



Cheers
I

 

[DeloresRose]

Nic is the most expensive ingredient, and I do store mine in the freezer. But I’ve never needed to freeze juice. All my flavors, juice, pg and vg go in a cool cupboard. How long a shelf life they have, I have no clue, but I’ve used almost everything before it went bad.

A couple flavors and juices were never good, so they got pitched.

Not really sure if there’s some reason for you needing to store them frozen?

 

[sonicbomb]

I keep my nic at -15c in a small freezer. Everything else I mix up fresh in batches as required.

The usefulness of preserving nic in this way has been proven conclusively by ECF guy @Rossum in the following excellent thread.

Nic Base Storage: Freezer vs. Room Temp Experiment

 

[score69]

I've never frozen flavored juices in the freezer myself. If it's got flavorings in it, I've stored them in the refrigerator for over a year with no changes that I was able to tell.

Nic concentrate and pre-mixed base (ready to add flavors), store perfectly in the freezer. You can pre-mix your base and freeze it, or just freeze the concentrate. Pull it out of the freezer, let it come to room temp, and add your flavorings. Steep as you normally would. I'm currently vaping 3+ year old base from the freezer and it's as good as new. It was originally stored as 12mg base, I diluted it futher to 4mg after pulling it out of the freezer since I'm vaping DL lung now instead of MTL.

And I agree 100ml isn't much volume to bother freezing. If you're talking about future use due to the FDA, etc get some 100mg conc and freeze that. Doesn't take much room, you can always dilute it later.

If you're going add flavors later and want to store pre-mixed base, Nic River sells pre-mixed 3, 6, 12, 24mg, etc in liters, gallons and the like pretty inexpensively. Just add flavoring. Best way to store for future use though is to freeze 100mg concentrate since a little goes a long way once you dilute it and it doesn't take as much freezer space.

 

[Rossum]

I concur with many of the sentiments above; the best long term plan is to keep a substantial supply of high-test nic base in the freezer. The higher the concentration, the less space it requires.

I don't see much point in mixing big quantities of finished juice and trying to freeze that. PG and VG do store just fine at room temperature; just keep them tightly sealed.

As for concentrated flavors, I think the jury is out on them. Conventional wisdom is not to store them in the freezer. Personally, I use so little flavoring that I've decided to ignore convention and do store many of mine in the freezer. So far, I've seen no downside to it, but YMMV depending on what's actually in the flavorings you use.

One thing that's important: When you pull a bottle of something out of the freezer, let it come to room temperature before opening it. That way, condensation will only form on the outside of the bottle and you won't unintentionally add an indeterminate amount of water to the bottle's contents.

 

[NicotineRush]

Nic in freezer. Flavors in refer.
I live off grid in Florida with no ac so the refer is the only cool dry place I have. Some of my flavors are over 2 yrs old with no degradation that I can tell.

 

[stols001]

I keep my flavors refrigerated, because I live in the desert, we keep our AC around 80 degrees the only truly "cool' dark place I could find was my refrigerator. They're fine and I note no changes in them, although I have heard flavors can precipitate out, but by the time mine are room temp for mixing, they look perfectly normal.

The amounts you are discussing I think may not warrant the freezer, I would think the refrigerator would be fine. Most of the juices I use are mixed and steeped and total time is about 3 months, for most of them. They hold up just fine.

The only "eliquid" I keep in the fridge is my WTA (other than the bottle I'm using). I use it infrequently enough that storing it in the fridge makes sense to me. I have noticed little issues or problems doing that.

If you are concerned about eliquid degrading, I'd be more likely to suggest the refrigerator, unless you don't think you'll use it for 10 years, in which case I would probably say, "Wait 9 years to mix it," and etc.

It's find to have stuff premixed and waiting, but it's also good to judge how much juice you will consume, and also mix accordingly. I mix when I BEGIN using my newest juices, usually about a month to six weeks, which has given them plenty of time to steep.

Develop a routine that works and stick to it.

Anna

 

[Philabos]

Thanks for all the info.
I already have 4 250ml of nic 100mg in the freezer.
The problem is all that is virtually useless if flavors become "unavailable" .
My current stock consists of about 20 different flavors and I am happy with that much.
Mostly ry4 double and custards.

 

[Izan]

"Flavours going away" is only related to RETAIL e liquids. (Taxed)
TFA/Capella/FlavourART...et al. are food flavour vendors. They are not going ANYWHERE.

HTH
Cheers
I

 

[Philabos]

"Flavours going away" is only related to RETAIL e liquids. (Taxed)
TFA/Capella/FlavourART...et al. are food flavour vendors. They are not going ANYWHERE.

HTH
Cheers
I

Ok, we are back to hope again.
What possible use would RY4 have in food flavor?
Perhaps there is a use. I don't know.

 

[score69]

Ok, we are back to hope again.
What possible use would RY4 have in food flavor?
Perhaps there is a use. I don't know.

If other flavors are available, I highly doubt RY4 for example would go away either. Maybe I like a hint of it in my cookies?

Honestly most of this has to do with labeling in my opinion. There are all kinds of 'things' sold as something else that have completely different uses.

 

[englishmick]

Ok, we are back to hope again.
What possible use would RY4 have in food flavor?
Perhaps there is a use. I don't know.

My guess, there's a small chance that tobacco flavors could disappear.

Not likely though. It would require some bureaucrat to go through lists of thousands of food flavorings looking for items that "sound like" they are intended to taste like tobacco, even though they are constructed from a cocktail of chemicals that have never seen the inside of a tobacco plant. And then succeed in having them banned based on that flimsy connection. They can't even ban the sale of candles that mimic the aroma of a well known Schedule 1 drug.

A more likely and more annoying problem is that the flavor companies would not be able to market flavors as suitable for vaping. They wouldn't be able to put the vaping flavors in a separate list on their website. You would need to go through the general food flavoring list and learn how to filter out the suitable ones yourself, like no oil based flavors for example. Even that doesn't worry me too much. There would be plenty of forums discussing which flavorings were good for vaping.

 

[englishmick]

I've read posts here giving a chemistry based reason why flavors shouldn't be frozen.

Supposedly different chemicals could freeze out of the mix at different temperatures. Some component could crystalize out at freezer temps, and when the mixture was warmed back up it might not return to its original condition. Chemical changes could occur. I'm not a chemist so I can't be sure that's true, but it was said by people who did have chemical knowledge. The same has been said by reps from the flavoring companies.

According to those folks, some juices could be frozen and come out fine, others not.

 

[Philabos]

Good points. Thank you.
Looks like the best plan is to freeze the 100mg nic and stock up on flavors, which is what everyone else seems to be doing. I am no chemist either but a bit too chancy to freeze a supply of Eliquid only to find it is junk.
It was just an idea, apparently a bad one.

 

[Letitia]

Good points. Thank you.
Looks like the best plan is to freeze the 100mg nic and stock up on flavors, which is what everyone else seems to be doing. I am no chemist either but a bit too chancy to freeze a supply of Eliquid only to find it is junk.
It was just an idea, apparently a bad one.

You also have to take into account that your percentage preferences will likely change with time. Most find after vaping diy for a while they use smaller amounts of flavors in their mixes.

 

[DeloresRose]

Ok, we are back to hope again.
What possible use would RY4 have in food flavor?
Perhaps there is a use. I don't know.

Uh, the FDA wants to limit e liquid to only things that are not targeted at children. They want us to have pretty much nothing but tobacco flavor in commercial juice. So why would they ban those flavors?

 

[JCinFLA]

I already have 4 250ml of nic 100mg in the freezer.
The problem is all that is virtually useless if flavors become "unavailable" .

You don't need to stock up on a whole bunch of flavorings for longterm use...like many of us have done with nic base. Most flavorings by TFA, CAP, FA, INW, and the other manufacturers...are also used in baking, candy making, and other things, too.

When I seriously wondered about stocking up on flavorings for DIY, about 2 years ago because of the FDA "mess"...I spoke with Kimberly (owner of OSDIY Shop) about it. She told me they plan to stay in business as usual longterm....selling flavorings from a variety of manufacturers as they have been. Said the only changes they planned...would be removing any mention of vaping or eliquid from their website (which they did) and phasing out most of their tobacco related flavorings, but not the RY4 (see below). Lots of the other tobacco flavorings have been in their Clearance section since then.

IMO, if push comes to shove, other flavoring vendors may do similar things, too.

What possible use would RY4 have in food flavor? Perhaps there is a use. I don't know.

RY4 is used to make a candy that is very popular in Colorado, according to Kimberly. She said it's a big seller for that purpose.

 

[DancingHeretik]

Good points. Thank you.
Looks like the best plan is to freeze the 100mg nic and stock up on flavors, which is what everyone else seems to be doing. I am no chemist either but a bit too chancy to freeze a supply of Eliquid only to find it is junk.
It was just an idea, apparently a bad one.

My brother did stock up on the one flavoring he uses, TFA Tobacco Blend (PG). He bought a lifetime supply because the flavoring was being discontinued. He keeps it in his frig.

But, it wasn't discontinued because of the FDA. They said it just wasn't in demand enough. So, now people have to try to replicate it themselves. It was made of Tobacco Absolute, PG, and sweetener.

I found it very confusing all the different Tobacco Absolutes out there and how to work with them. It's a tarry, very concentrated tobacco flavoring.

I was thinking I might check into it again since it's been a couple of years or so and people have had lots of time to work out the bugs. Information may be a little less confusing by now. Or, I may just get some from my brother since he doesn't seem to be using it as fast as expected.

I have seen an occasional flavor discontinued because it's not popular enough. But, it's fairly rare.

I keep my flavorings in my frig, my nic in my freezer, and my PG and VG in the bottom of my closet.

 

[dannyv45]

Thanks for all the info.
I already have 4 250ml of nic 100mg in the freezer.
The problem is all that is virtually useless if flavors become "unavailable" .
My current stock consists of about 20 different flavors and I am happy with that much.
Mostly ry4 double and custards.

I have flavoring well over 6 years old that I keep in a tackle box or dark cabinet in a room that stays a constant 74 degrees all year long. Those flavors are still as fresh as the day I bought them. So my advice is store them in a dark place in a temperature controlled room, or in the refrigerator if you have the room.

Most flavors are synthetic in a non parasitic base solution (PG/VG) so theirs very little chance of spoilage.
If on the other hand you have natural organic based flavoring then I would be concerned and would even consider finding out from the Manufacturer what the shelf life is on those and make sure those are stored in a refrigerator. Organic flavorings for vaping are very few and the likelihood that you have those are pretty small unless you intentionally sourced those.

I store my pre mixed every day nicotine base in the refrigerator for months at a time and it stays nice and clear and fresh. My 100mg Nic solution I store in the freezer.