Generally I'm freaking out!!!

[Racehorse]

^^^^ I also want to say that I have not put any vendor into the situation of breaking the law, since many of them aren't even aware of it, but I am. I no longer enter contests for eliquid here, etc. In my heart, I feel that is the "right thing to do."

Not much would happen to me for ordering, I mean, maybe my package would be consfiscated. But for a business, who is supposed to retain "legal advisors" and be aware of the laws that affect their business, I feel that they could be fined, etc. and I just never wanted to bring that on anybody.

Of course I could have ordered eliquid, rather than suffering, but it is really against my ethics to get somebody else in trouble because I am able to "pull a fast one over on them" strictly for my own convenience and comfort.

Some people have criticized me for this, privately, but I still believe it's the right thing to do. The law is already passed, breaking the law isn't the way I personally go about "changing things." It's okay w/me if others feel differently. IMHO running a business, just dealing with everyday stuff like competition and inventory, is hard enough. I just never wanted to put any vendor into a complicated situation even if it is their own fault for not being aware of the laws.

 

[Douggro]

^^^^ I also want to say that I have not put any vendor into the situation of breaking the law, since many of them aren't even aware of it, but I am. I no longer enter contests for eliquid here, etc. In my heart, I feel that is the "right thing to do."

Not much would happen to me for ordering, I mean, maybe my package would be consfiscated. But for a business, who is supposed to retain "legal advisors" and be aware of the laws that affect their business, I feel that they could be fined, etc. and I just never wanted to bring that on anybody. Of course I could have ordered eliquid, rather than suffering, but it is really against my ethics to get somebody else in trouble because I am able to "pull a fast one over on them" strictly for my own convenience and comfort.

Some people have criticized me for this, privately, but I still believe it's the right thing to do. The law is already passed, breaking the law isn't the way I personally go about "changing things." It's okay w/me if others feel differently.

But this does raise the possibility of someone starting a "re-shipping" service in states where no regulations are in place. Order, have it shipped to them, then they re-ship to you… Good God, I just proposed the Russian "shipping and forwarding" con scheme.

 

[crxess]

I will be voting in the locals and regionals and will not vote R for this reason....

I was 100% with you until this ^

If you want satisfaction - Do Not Vote Party - Vote Person

In your State it may be (R) or chosen (R) representatives or even upcoming (R) or not.
In my State the issue is Clearly - Current (D) - with 1 (R) supporting H.R.2058

After several Emails, I have concluded it is the Idiot, not the Party, though Old ANTZ attitude abounds within Both Parties

 

[Racehorse]

If you want satisfaction - Do Not Vote Party - Vote Person

I amend my statement to your advice because I do agree with it, and would actually be going against my own belief system by saying I would only vote party. I was just "mad at them". . But it's why I am not registered any party. My HoR rep is a neighbor, I don't have to write letters to, I can just walk over and talk in living room, or at the local firehouse ice cream social. He is a good guy but I disagree w/him on a lot of other stuff too, even tho he had nothing to do with the vaping bill. I've vote R in local as one lady helped me carry my groceries out of walmart when my back went out a few years ago (she didn't even know me but I got to return the favor by giving her my vote 4 years later when she ran for office. )

 

[Douggro]

If you want satisfaction - Do Not Vote Party - Vote Person

Yes, making this a Partisan issue is not the point. Doing so is injecting personal biases and agendas that don't belong in the discussion.

 

[440BB]

Yes, making this a Partisan issue is not the point. Doing so is injecting personal biases and agendas that don't belong in the discussion.

If anything, it has distracted many of us from the real issue and caused a number of threads to disintegrate.

 

[Robino1]

I hate to admit it but I am one of the ones that didn't do a single thing other than grumbling to myself as smokers were being made into or less than second class citizens. I refuse to be that person when it comes to vaping.

I also refuse to be one of the ones that try to demonize smokes and smokers. I see a bit of that here on this forum and in my opinion it is just not right. Most of us used to be a smoker so should understand just how hard it is to quit or for some even to switch.

AMEN^^^^. I will fight for vaping. I will also fight for smokers by dispelling myths that have been uttered, to demonize smoking, just to further agendas.

No, the FDA doesn't need to make vaping illegal. The Deeming Regulations will effectively throw any new equipment purchases back into the Stone Age of Vaping, which serves no one except those that will profit from their goods being exempted. Vaping as we know it today will become an underground culture, serviced by a Gray/Black Market. Equipment choices will shrink, costs will soar and quality will drop. Any e-juices you may find will come from possibly questionable sources with God-knows-what for contents. Someone posted a similarity to the Deeming Regulations and Prohibition, and I think that reasonable similarities can be drawn. We will still have products available through secondary channels, just like bathtub gin was available during Prohibition, but it will be of questionable quality and safety.

Vaping is starting to be demonized just as smoking was. Is it 100% safe? No. But it is unquestionably far safer than the alternative. As mattiem pointed out, what serves our collective best interest is not to belittle or look down on smokers, nor to become resigned to becoming second-class citizens because we vape as smokers have done.

It's okay to be outraged by the skewed studies, sensationalistic media reports and misinformed bureaucratic reaction to the perceived hazards of vaping. But what will win the day for us is rational, calm action of pressing those that would enforce Draconian regulations on vaping with our stories and experiences of vaping, and the science that supports vaping as an Harm Reduction alternative to smoking.

When people see negative stories, bogus studies etc... We need to counter with links to viable links that dispute junk science.

Here is some excellent ammunition: E-Cigarette Summit Videos

 

[Douggro]

If anything, it has distracted many of us from the real issue and caused a number of threads to disintegrate.

Couldn't agree more. I lose interest when it turns into political party bickering. I have to fight the urge to counter with my own politic.

 

[Rule62]

I amend my statement to your advice because I do agree with it, and would actually be going against my own belief system by saying I would only vote party. I was just "mad at them". . But it's why I am not registered any party. My HoR rep is a neighbor, I don't have to write letters to, I can just walk over and talk in living room, or at the local firehouse ice cream social. He is a good guy but I disagree w/him on a lot of other stuff too, even tho he had nothing to do with the vaping bill. I've vote R in local as one lady helped me carry my groceries out of walmart when my back went out a few years ago (she didn't even know me but I got to return the favor by giving her my vote 4 years later when she ran for office. )

I believe in registering with a party, for the purpose of voting in the Primaries. I believe in some states, Independnts can vote in Primaries. In my state, they can't.
But being registered with a party doesn't compel anyone to vote the party line in General Elctions.

 

[mcol]

I believe in registering with a party, for the purpose of voting in the Primaries. I believe in some states, Independnts can vote in Primaries. In my state, they can't.
But being registered with a party doesn't compel anyone to vote the party line in General Elctions.

You don't have to declare a party in Missouri. In the primaries you just
tell the clerk which ballot you want.

 

[mcol]

^^^^ I also want to say that I have not put any vendor into the situation of breaking the law, since many of them aren't even aware of it, but I am. I no longer enter contests for eliquid here, etc. In my heart, I feel that is the "right thing to do."

Not much would happen to me for ordering, I mean, maybe my package would be consfiscated. But for a business, who is supposed to retain "legal advisors" and be aware of the laws that affect their business, I feel that they could be fined, etc. and I just never wanted to bring that on anybody.

Of course I could have ordered eliquid, rather than suffering, but it is really against my ethics to get somebody else in trouble because I am able to "pull a fast one over on them" strictly for my own convenience and comfort.

Some people have criticized me for this, privately, but I still believe it's the right thing to do. The law is already passed, breaking the law isn't the way I personally go about "changing things." It's okay w/me if others feel differently. IMHO running a business, just dealing with everyday stuff like competition and inventory, is hard enough. I just never wanted to put any vendor into a complicated situation even if it is their own fault for not being aware of the laws.

I paid attention - really close attention - to how vendors reacted to this AR legislation and
how they're handling the Indiana legislation. We mean nothing to them, that is until all
or most states have the same type of legislation and people are unable to buy on the internet.
Then it will hit home with them. Vapers are the same way, all this talk over the past two
years meant nothing for the most part, but for many once it hits them at home directly
and no one is batting an eye then they'll pay attention.

 

[Tommy-Chi]

Eyes are being opened! Look at the bright side, a vape shop owner/employee IS involved and letting their customers know! That's better isn't it? More eyes are being opened and people are letting others know...FINALLY! It's still not too late!

I cannot believe I live in a country where states have legalized {other stuff}, and they make illegal vaping nicotine? A proper hanging would be too good for some of these polecats.

 

[Bad Ninja]

Voting is the only answer.
Start locally.
I've posted this over and over since I joined this site.

This is what happens when "deciders" are elected to decide for us.

In the US, we do not elect "leaders" or people to decide for us.
That is not their job.

We elect representatives of the will of the people.
Their only job is to do what WE decide, whether they like it or not.
Even the president.

Start voting with this in mind and things will change for the better.

 

[Tommy-Chi]

I cannot believe I live in a country where states have legalized {other stuff}, and they make illegal vaping nicotine? A proper hanging would be too good for some of these polecats.

Sorry moderator.

 

[Robino1]

Sorry moderator.

Mistakes happen
Apology accepted

 

[Rocketpunk]

Some B&M's are fighting the fight. I can't name my B&M because of forum rules, but one of our owners helped create AEMSA and successfully testified before the State financial committee in Columbus, OH. Together with a few other vendors, lobbyists, and lawyers, they were able to get the tax hike proposed by Kasich squashed -- at least for now. It would've hiked up the price for a $20 30 mL bottle up to $60, making it prohibitively expensive for people looking for a cheaper, safer alternative. Plus it would've taxed the hell out of the nicotine, per mL. You may not be seeing a lot of activity on your end, but here in Ohio we're full bore. We also have CASAA.ORG business cards to give to customers who ask.

But surprisingly.......... no one asks. They may come in and complain about potential and inevitable taxes and talk smack about the government, but if and when we suggest for them to visit CASAA.ORG, we get that "eh" look that most people give when they care, but just don't care enough.

 

[Rocketpunk]

It's like that Mitch Hedburg joke. When I give people CASAA cards, I feel like what they're hearing inside their head is, "Here... take this card. You throw it away."

 

[Rocketpunk]

And not to be crass, but man, Robino. I still have a crush on you!

 

[WharfRat1976]

6 years of disinterest in the vaping community?

Like it would have made one sinew of an iota of a difference. FACEPALM

 

[AndriaD]

AMEN^^^^. I will fight for vaping. I will also fight for smokers by dispelling myths that have been uttered, to demonize smoking, just to further agendas.

Absolutely this. I was one of them not so long ago, a real diehard sort; when I encounter smokers now, I just have this overwhelming gratitude to be finally free of them myself, and wonder if they've yet heard any real facts about e-cigs, or just the garbage on TV. If they express any interest or curiosity, I do everything I can to try and dispel any myths they've heard, but I've mostly gotten over the urge to want to shout the good news about vaping from the rooftops.

Smokers aren't bad guys. They're people who made a bad choice probably many years ago, and now probably wish they could change it, but maybe don't know how easy it could really be. I may not be a smoker myself anymore, but it still makes me sick to see how the public at large treats them -- lepers would probably get a better reception. And now the public at large thinks that vapers are going to sit still for that sort of treatment???

I don't think so.

Andria