Good morning everybody . I'm new and researching ,first mech / build......

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MacTechVpr

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The tight ones on that set of 4 with clean end turns will do a hell of a job B. Good goin. With 10 turns or so you should be runnin up on .3Ω and a very nice compromise on density and diffusion. When you strain such on Kanthal, I think you'll be a jolly camper.

Good luck. :)
 

MacTechVpr

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You have to listen carefully to the rationale used by folks for their perspective or conclusions.

For example, that claptons trap more juice in the spaces, so more flavor.

How many milisec's do you think before there's any juice left on a wire surface after you fire? How long is your draw? Where'd the flavor come from again?

To get a good vape we have to try to understand how things work to know for certain how they should.

Stainless, titanium, nickel, etc. have all been touted because they work better temp regulated. I'd say half of us say it does. But the reason we use TC is to keep temps below the point that nasties can be created with VG.

This makes me wonder, why alternative wire if the temp of vaporization never rises above the avg boiling point of the VG/PG/H20 mix? All far lower than any risky temps. It can when it's totally dry. But then there's no nasties to be created, are there? We don't pull on dry wicks.

It's nice to have money to enjoy a good vape. And a little time spent finding the pertinent facts helps us get there.

Nothing works better than a well made coil that drives best vaporization for the wick's rate of flow with the least amps wasted. That's what gives us a great vape generally. More vapor, more flavor.

Good luck. :)
 

MacTechVpr

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Think I understand after a good night's sleep what you mean by 4 sec's ramp up. I take that to mean you need to take a good long pull of about that before you get some good vapor,

For me 4-5 sec's a healthy tug on a Subtank on VW with a .8Ω single @ 22.5W. Some really nice density with wide open dual air, just takes longer to produce it. Double it up and it would be the same great density just more of it. I get that with a pair just south of .3Ω in less than 2 secs. With twisted lead t.m.c. parallels a tad lower res and it's pretty much a quick draw (and much cooler with that much stable surface area). Same volume as I see from most spaced standard winds but denser.

Good luck and a great weekend. :)
 
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bood

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i'm running 0.8+x2= 0.40/45ohm
ramp slow ..but then nice vape....slow ramp occurr on 1st fire..on a close II or III vapour is ready done.

i love my mech..
20171118_192320_resized.png

is there a way to upload videos, that you know of?
 
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MacTechVpr

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i'm running 0.8+x2= 0.40/45ohm
ramp slow ..but then nice vape....slow ramp occurr on 1st fire..on a close II or III vapour is ready done.

i love my mech.. View attachment 701141


is there a way to upload videos, that you know of?

Two doors to the right of the smiley face icon in the toolbox above. Just plug in the youtube's short share link. Should work for ya.

Think I'm reading you now from all the exhibits. What I like about you. You get that the internet's a visual medium. Your vape settles in after a couple'a hits. Got it. That's about right.

You're doin fine. Actually quite good for a beginner. But then it seems you have your head screwed on straight on what you want. Pleasure to help anyone like that. Hang in there bro. Enjoy.

Mebbe so me pics of my own later.

Gotta cut. CYA and good luck. :)
 
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bood

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Two doors to the right of the smiley face icon in the toolbox above. Just plug in the youtube's short share link. S. :)
so I suppose no direct feed/ upload, not a shortway for mobile videos here..
ok

about the rest..trust me is a pleasure to share my vape w you..if I'm -prolly- vaping ultra fine for a mech beginner ,thats likely for a -pretty big- n. of advice I received..here.. tnx bro

still have a bit to learn..and then something..
so hang around.....

ps sorry for text size , never been fond of typing from an handheld device
 
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bood

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MacTechVpr

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You go through your paces in your own time. You can't know how good the vape 'till you live with it. Worst thing you can do (and most expensive) is to cycle through a bunch of stuff and never see what it's actually doin. You gotta be the wire to tell it what to do. When you know what it needs, it'll give you all you want.

Good luck. :)
 

bood

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@MacTechVpr came back home tonight with 2 kanthal 0.5ohm

after a drink and speaking with my mech buddy he 'lent me those 2 ( and 2 end of the bottle flavor essence wich i doubt any good )


I guess reading about your twisted wires seconded me on getting those
20171119_113856_resized.jpg

20171119_114024_resized.jpg

not exactly what I have in mind anyhow I can give them a try,
for free
 
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MacTechVpr

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removed my s.s. 0.8+ twos
cleaned

i will try to remould them a bit
going to leave them pressed all night in clothespins...
lol ..
View attachment 701297

Vaped twisted KA1 for sev years in the background while trying to persuade as many to become able enough using straight wire to get there. Trying meantime to get those gnarly turns and overall surface close enough to consistently oxidize more like a unit. At best less'n 1/3 would reasonably get there nough to make some diff. They only get cooler and put out more as there's more mass…if they're stable. Then you can give 'em more power and juice. So you end up feelin you got a better vape. Or, you could have just upped your mass and lowered your res. You can learn to twist em very precisely in turns/cm with practice. Getting them to line up and light up as good as they look's another matter.


It did lead to me to appreciate the virtues of using higher pwr and not being so concerned about it. When I returned to working out reasonable levels for 25W vapers, I really appreciated that. Then…the focus become consistent vape density. I think we all of us go through this. Ultimately backing down to somewhere on the curve that's sustainable and truly satisfying, i.e. returning from the point of diminishing returns and other such losing propositions.

BTW, still make 'em on occasion spaced and closed for certain vapes. But to be honest, the T/L t.m.c.'s are easier and ultimately more rewarding. Both share the same fiddly tho with tight post holes. Just a warning.

Enjoy the journey! :D

p.s. BTW, if you torch or pulse them to heat them together, they will just come undone. Heat expansion as you vape 'em will just release the rigidity and they will return to the shape they were formed. This is the why for why coilers don't work. But as I said earlier…the pertinent facts.
 
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bood

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ramp up is fast as s.s. 0.4ohm coils, vapor big/bigger then last build, flavor heavier but less pure imo ,just my palate
and too warm/hot, my palate again
best vape until now is still the first from the 0.8+ s.s. spaces coils, pure, soft , easy, cool yet flavorful but in a natural way

the difference in flavor between kanthal and s.s. seems not so subtle
 

MacTechVpr

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ramp up is fast as s.s. 0.4ohm coils…

Niiice. Good job gettin some symmetry out of that.

Less turns, lot's of mass and corrugation (craggies)…

…vapor big/bigger then last build

Lots of diffusion…from what I refer to as a diffusion build.

…flavor heavier but less pure imo ,just my palate
and too warm/hot, my palate again

Yes, more flavor. Because there is a correlation between total volume of vapor produced and flavor. But as you note texture is an important part of taste. If a lot of vaporization has occurred and it's diffused afterwards it changes the texture and the greater heat for the level of actual vapor production changes the character of the vapor.

You're not imagining things. Nor my opinion. This is commonly reported.

…vapor big/bigger then last build
…best vape until now is still the first from the 0.8+ s.s. spaces coils, pure, soft , easy, cool yet flavorful but in a natural way…the difference in flavor between kanthal and s.s. seems not so subtle

You can't judge Kanthal by this build. Unfortunately many do a big wire, multi-wire, incoherent winds with it and conclude the same — too hot, not good flavor. I find this to be actually true of wire types that demand high power for low resistance and that can include Kanthal. For the reasons you noted…the observations you made.

Fact is that KA1 was adopted because it was better than other wire options back in the when even as folks were winding it haphazardly at the beginning. So it does depend very much on the build, as I've been saying all along.

There is mebe a middle ground of power and contact for your latest wire configuration that makes the best of its capacity for density (of vapor production) and diffusion, at a manageable temperature. My issue with this approach is how do you reproduce it enough times predictably to find that point. If you can't replicate it, you can't rely on it. There goes that great vape.

Like you, I love pulling great flavor density and relatively low power ranges next to most. Again this p.m. demo'd one of the TLP's on an AVID/BD to a veteran vaper. He's always vaped multi wire. Couldn't believe the flavor, volume or temperature for the <100W build, 2 secs. That's my point. We never see it if we don't know how to get to it.

Now getting back to the diffusion build, this isn't a criticism. I believe a lot of the multi-wire styles being presented these days is truly pure art, many are but some ain't worth a damn for competition and many no doubt produce good vapor and flavor at the expense of high heat and watts. But to insist that great flavor's the outcome of high power is amusingly optimistic. Great flavorful vapor comes from optimizing density and diffusion for the device based on its capacity (and our tastes of course). To do this you need tools and a method (that take the actual science of vaporization into account). The turns, watts and amps is all you need's like sayin we're only going to vape the 1/4 mile track.

Well enough pondering. The wire beacons. And I've got to finish up.

Good luck and thx for the pics. :)
 

bood

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Niiice. Good job gettin some symmetry out of that.

Less turns, lot's of mass and corrugation (craggies)…



Lots of diffusion…from what I refer to as a diffusion build.



You can't judge Kanthal by this build
II build that I vape off kanthal
-both this and the 2x1ohm coils I 've installed the beginning give me a different flavor ,
then ss
( not talking vapour density : both the 0.2+ a1 and the 0.2+ s.s. produce big vapes

After two days vaping this tanlged kanthal coil it feels like I'm more satisfied from the vapor/flavor coming from ss . But it felt this way instantly the first vape I had two days ago , the Kanthal a1 adds another taste in the mix


In fact I've gone back to 2x0.8ss ( and 3-4 seconds average heating time unfortunately )

it feel much better?
it just vapes a cleaner flavor : speaking about ss v kanthal , and my setup

There is mebe a middle ground of power and contact for your latest wire configuration that makes the best of its capacity for density (of vapor production) and diffusion, at a manageable temperature. My issue with this approach is how do you reproduce it enough times predictably to find that point. If you can't replicate it, you can't rely on it. There goes that great vape.
:)
for now I'm thinking about going the s.s. route , but not fond of diminishing turns/mass/surface on my .4/.45 ss build, Id do it only to get a faster vape

at the expense of what i like about the quality of the vape (?) so will have to try it

btw the 0.2+ builds , both the ss and the ka1 , are fast to heat up
they take less then a second or o
so the mech and the builds in general in my setup seem to work quite fine

it's likely that double coils around 1ohm in mechs take much more time to heat up
 
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bood

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Now getting back to the diffusion build, this isn't a criticism. I believe a lot of the multi-wire styles being presented these days is truly pure art, many are but some ain't worth a damn for competition and many no doubt produce good vapor and flavor at the expense of high heat and watts. But to insist that great flavor's the outcome of high power is amusingly optimistic. Great flavorful vapor comes from optimizing density and diffusion for the device based on its capacity (and our tastes of course). To do this you need tools and a method (that take the actual science of vaporization into account). The turns, watts and amps is all you need's like sayin we're only going to vape the 1/4 mile track.

at the moment ss seems to produce a better flavor , on both the high and the lower ohm builds
to me at least , in my setup
I may change my mind with a different liquid......


the first vape you just notice it it is different
then after 2 days going back to ss feels better

maybe I was wrong in something with ka1
I'm not telling its worse but sure it adds his own personal cent , a subtly metallic or heavier character into the mix the flavor results thicker but not sure its in a good way as its not deeper at all
 
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MacTechVpr

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at the moment ss seems to produce a better flavor , on both the high and the lower ohm builds
to me at least , in my setup
I may change my mind with a different liquid......


the first vape you just notice it it is different
then after 2 days going back to ss feels better

maybe I was wrong in something with ka1
I'm not telling its worse but sure it adds his own personal cent , a subtly metallic or heavier character into the mix the flavor results thicker but not sure its in a good way as its not deeper at all

I hear that from time to time…that s.s. tastes cleaner. About Rayon too. Have vaped them both. I haven't seen any evidence Kanthal adds any distinguishing character to the vape's taste. Alumina is ceramic and utterly neutral to taste. I keep insisting, it's vaporization that delivers flavor — it shouldn't be the metal nor the wick.

So is cleaner really a variation of flavor? Or more like quieter as music from another room? Are you hearing analog or listening to digital? I don't think another juice will necessarily answer this question. Too many peeps rush. It takes more than a 15 min dripper test like so many do. That must make a lot of juice designers bonkers to see that, the typical review.

A Kanthal wind isn't a tensioned microcoil. I don't like them spaced or unoxidized. Until then it tastes metallic to me. Or if wound as a contact coil KA1 without proper oxidation, hot and extremely crisp, raw and dry. It's possible then some aspects of juices may be over-emphasized. None of it good. It needs to be oxidized to vaporize uniformly and to be neutral in taste. This is what enhances vaporization upping the amount of vaporized flavoring you may experience by way higher density. It is this you try to improve.

My sense from your decision is you'd opt for the density if you could do without the lag. Hear, hear. I'm with ya on that score.

So the comparison must be apples and apples too in terms of the capacity you have built. Most of all you need a serious baseline to be able to say I got what I like here.

It would be unfortunate if the only baseline you got to was a sadly laggard parallel-turned-spaced coil which is not easily reproducible, albeit a neat one. You did good to pull out a wind from it. The one characteristic it has that's good, I mentioned…higher mass to surface area.

Not raggin'. Just warning. LOL This old horse's been around the block enough times to know what comes around goes around.

Well just my thoughts. This holiday has me busy with special requests but I'll stay tuned bood.

Appreciate all your remarks B. You're diligent. :thumbs:

Good luck. :)
 
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