Good morning everybody . I'm new and researching ,first mech / build......

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MacTechVpr

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I'm currently running the same wire in two Nanos. One is contact, the other is spaced. Contact coil provides better lung hit and slight but noticeable drop in flavor. Spaced coil better flavor and more noticeable drop in lung hit. Haven't yet mastered minute spacing. Think when I do I'll find the elusive sweet spot.

I found that to be true as I first worked with introducing strain process for winding super_X_drifter's original torch oxidized microcoil. Turns did impressively heat each other and particularly at the center point of the wind. As noted by many this was often too much at some dia-turn combinations to thoroughly char cotton in operation.

Not enough peep's liked this idea to satisfy my goal to rapidly expand contact use. So I abandoned torching as deleterious to alumina formation anyway and introduced the strain wound contact in the Spring of '14.

Once we wind with just enough strain to ensure practical turn-to-turn maximal proximity we will have evoked the beginnings of elongation, input enough rigidity in the wind to survive pulse oxidation and achieved apparently enough internal reordering to produce effective observable optimization of vaporization. As most anecdotally refer to it…it's cool, by a factor of at least 25% over open winds of similar mass and same power. This is an observable, reproducible and measurable phenomena I believe as per the various confirmations of success of simple and complex creation by others.

So I'd agree, conventionally wound contact and even close contact coils can get exceedingly hot producing quite the throat hit. Something which seems to have been very unfortunately equated with authenticity and satisfaction in this community as requiring high power and lots of diffusion in my opinion.

As to flavor, there must first be vaporization to taste anything. A more effective rate of vaporization expectantly yields more flavor.

So it's your conclusion Leti I'd qualify. A t.m.c. would produce less flavor than a comparable spaced if run at less or greater power. The first is obvious —less vapor, less flavor. And we can't taste what's not there. Spaced winds tend to be run at more watts as they run cooler due to the spacing. So generally we just up the power and say great vape. We get some additional flavor despite the randomly spread coals. But notice that we're adding power without a like kind increase in contact surface. So where does most of that additional energy go?

In the 2nd ex., one not properly oxidized, a non-oxidized or inconsistently oxidized closed coil will perform in an unpredictable fashion producing diffusive heat from some turns less with others but generally hotter, much. With more power loss, less flavor. Add diffusion and vapor is thinned, it's texture changed, reducing flavor for many.

This doesn't mean that the flavor from a spaced wind is necessarily bad. It's just more dilute. It must be. You can't cook with less coal. With open winds you lose the advantage of contiguous turn reinforcement. Turns heat each other creating a very efficient uniform vaporization zone within the element from which there is less thermal loss to ambient but concentrated within the element.

There other magical things happen. :D

Good luck. :)
 

bood

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or we can play around with numbersfor free in the w.e. :rolleyes:o_O

btw this "You're more cooking the juice the vaporizing it" gave me some hint .. in fact I saw some "boiling" on the deck ........
could definitely be an underpower problem here ..
I noticed that my regular ss spaced 025+ build doesnt show much boiling

did you read the alien coils got a dark center ( no black spot ) pretty fast ? 3 days of use .. never saw that fast before
 
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MacTechVpr

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or we can play around with numbersfor free in the w.e. :rolleyes:o_O

btw this "You're more cooking the juice the vaporizing it" gave me some hint .. in fact I saw some "boiling" on the deck ........
could definitely be an underpower problem here ..
I noticed that my regular ss spaced 025+ build doesnt show much boiling

did you read the alien coils got a dark center ( no balck spot ) pretty fast ? 3 days of use .. never saw that before

What I was taking about with power concentration in non-oxi standard coils rather than uniformly oxidized. Regardless we need to be careful at both extremes of power application for the avail geometry and airflow. And it is as much that as the method of wind creation used. It's not that spaced don't do it and contacts do, or the opp. Wire does it based on the design approach used for the atty and our operational style if variable. IOW, misfit.

As for the above table, I'm not sure I can make sense of it. Think I'm missing something, context. You get a softer cooler vape from duals because your spreading the energy over a wider vaporization area. Same thing with spacers. You should get a lot warmer vape from a contact, and you do…without oxidation. Precisely mated contacts greatly aid to better oxidation.

That is what makes strained contact coils unique and impressive.

Good luck. :)
 

MacTechVpr

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Hey don't get me wrong, a lot of folks like diffusion. That's what they started with, are used to and more power to 'em. I do. But not to the exclusion of ample vaporization. Just like strain, regulated in effect or not, they're both in every wind.

My appeal is to learn to control for both. You get the vape that you build.

Good luck. :)
 

Letitia

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@MacTechVpr Lung hit and throat hit are a completely separate experience. I mix for no th and my coils are far from hot. I appreciate your knowledge and experience. Do not understand much of it. Some is simply learning your terminology. What I do understand is I can get satisfaction from a barely spaced coil. I can achieve that with single wire builds. Just not there yet with tri core wire yet.
 

MacTechVpr

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@MacTechVpr Lung hit and throat hit are a completely separate experience. I mix for no th and my coils are far from hot. I appreciate your knowledge and experience. Do not understand much of it. Some is simply learning your terminology. What I do understand is I can get satisfaction from a barely spaced coil. I can achieve that with single wire builds. Just not there yet with tri core wire yet.

Simply, you get more hit from post vaporization heating. Very much like more nic or when the vape starts to sour. There is always a certain amount of diffusion of heat to air. But the cup of coffee can only be so hot before we stop liking it…no matter how good the bean.

Control for it, I say.

Good luck. :)
 

MacTechVpr

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@MacTechVpr Lung hit and throat hit are a completely separate experience. I mix for no th and my coils are far from hot. I appreciate your knowledge and experience. Do not understand much of it. Some is simply learning your terminology. What I do understand is I can get satisfaction from a barely spaced coil. I can achieve that with single wire builds. Just not there yet with tri core wire yet.

It seems to me you're doing great from your posts. Right into it enthusiastically. Do what you like. Try tension.

Good luck. :)
 
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MacTechVpr

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or we can play around with numbersfor free in the w.e. :rolleyes:o_O

btw this "You're more cooking the juice the vaporizing it" gave me some hint .. in fact I saw some "boiling" on the deck ........
could definitely be an underpower problem here ..
I noticed that my regular ss spaced 025+ build doesnt show much boiling

did you read the alien coils got a dark center ( no black spot ) pretty fast ? 3 days of use .. never saw that fast before

Just checkin in to see how's the vape B. Since my decision a few months back to move t.m.c.'s to higher output I've been having a great time with new and more advanced vapers. Seems I've been setting up more gear for others than self lately. And I need to make some time for that.

Yes, you can cook the juice at both ends of over saturation (cool) and to dry (hot). Have actually started out a few spanky new vapers with comp rigs and this was one of the first lessons they discovered. There is an optimal for saturation with any design.

It was funny…I took this big fella through the champagne sip phase to actually inhaling that MTL in about 20 mins the other evening. Turned out he had been cooking his juice as every connection end-to-end of the setup was slightly loose. Having sampled other gear, he was expecting real hot, too hot. But t.m.c.'s don't roll that way. He was pleasantly surprised that he could.

Hope you're enjoying the vape. I'm here when you wanna try that t.m.c. >>> TLP.

Good luck. :)
 

bood

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Hi MacTechVpr , I've been silently doing some things lately - related to the vaping..
1. writing notes of my whole experience -you did notice I had some problems with my mouth : I've gone thorugh a very strange happening , my mouth has been def bad for a week or so and I couldnt nearly vape ( but ok normal cigarettes) , then everything last week turned completely normal from a day to another (???) , I started vaping again with no issues at all ; I've set on SS spaced with pleasant results , if a tad on the dry side .. but on a fresh recharged battery that feeling is not there .The alien coils are a nice add to have around but overkill for my day habits really; and they get consumed faster ( lower ohm? ) .

I got better in wicking my builds and my gears in order to save cotton juice and build/mount time ; have to change res every 3 4 days , I clean them letting sip in vodka for 2 days with couple of shakes , get them out clean them with cotton - then in another day , then they come out pretty clean and reusable - up to 5 times .. when the res start to look too cooked and burnt in the center its the time I ser them apart.
I m rolling 3 sets of res this way and using both atomizer I have.

I will write more as I have time promise ; my notes were for a big update on my vape exp ( pretty good up to now, good gears and many interesting findings too )

2. mixing juices : tobacco quest and some other ( finally found a mix that tastes relatively close to a cigarette , and this eventually tamed my need for cigarette ); I found that mixing is not for me as nearly all the juice mixes change -from nicely to quite dramatically- the more time you leave them to mix and open to the air , getting always better ..
and time is not a friendly variable on me

more to come
i got very fast in rebuilding simmetry is not perfect always, the vape is consistently quite good, i found shapin cutting and giving the right puff contour to the cotton contribute to the whole
i stll like to take my time with it
when i can and this is not exactly the right time of the year
20171219_145251_resized.jpg
 
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bood

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while I feel I'm near to max performance on my setup ( the vape is great and on a fresh charged Sony vtc4 quite close to the "competition" vape density we see on youtube etc) , I still have to work a tad on the vape feeling ( I like it more smooth , ala justfog ), and some flavor too
using quite all VG + drops of vodka and / or H2O ( both less then 10% )
 

MacTechVpr

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while I feel I'm near to max performance on my setup ( the vape is great and on a fresh charged Sony vtc4 quite close to the "competition" vape density we see on youtube etc) , I still have to work a tad on the vape feeling ( I like it more smooth , ala justfog ), and some flavor too
using quite all VG + drops of vodka and / or H2O ( both less then 10% )

I have my moments when I'll vape Nextel on the dry side and go that lighter whispy vapor. It tends to look like more production but reason it out and as drier it's actually less. I generally prefer to diffuse a higher density. Most folks' pref's I think lie somewhere along that curve and towards the middle. It's def not one-size-fits-all for pref's as you constantly hear. Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't.

Good luck. :)

p.s. Try tension! :D
 

MacTechVpr

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do you think is that better?
im not sure i want to try khantal again i didnt like it as much as ss ..but then if you are sure about it i will

Only you can decide if it's better for you. All I can tell you is that it works and what the results are. I have my own pref's and they tend to high power and as I just said at times to a diffuse rather than density vape. That's not my objective in writing mosty. It's to encourage folks to take control of their vape and target specific outcomes.

G'luck and enjoy the vape. :)
 

MacTechVpr

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Just add to this that I'm running builds for months. My rebuilding students and interns would tell you, confirm that config's I suggest here on ECF hold up very consistently and outperform most all others in terms of density. It is about t.m.c.'s true, but Kanthal is critical to getting there. I'll have to plan on revisiting s.s. in another more serious assessment. I try to include all wire types/winds/media as new vaper's groove in but not as much with s.s.

G'luck. :)
 
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