Gorilla Juice DIY clone : Feedback needed.

[digunderground]

Ok.. checking back in... I have tried the following tobaccos with no luck matching..

Seedmans : every one I could get my hands on
TFA: 555, M-type, tobacco Concentrate, Absolute, tobacco Alc (I know these 3 are almost identical, but just trying)& smooth tobacco
SM; Virginia fire-cured, English Tobacco, light brand.
FW: Latkia, Honey wood
FA: Desert Ship, Latkia, Cuban, cowboy, perique

Some unknown Turkish tobacco blend, and Rose tobacco blend.. BTW the rose tobacco is aweful, in everything, dont ever buy it.

I even tried "bread crust" 1 drop in 5 ml... this is also a horrible flavor.. completely overtook the entire batch.. use at your own risk.. lol

I have been using MTS vape wizard in all of my mixes, BUT I highly doubt this is an essential flavoring for BB or GJ because I dont think it was around when that was created. I have tried Cinnamon Danish, and its not even a remotely close match IMHO, but it is damn good. I have tried 2 variants of coconut starting at .5% and im fairly sure there isn't any coconut in BB or GJ... I pick up on coconut really quick partially because I hate it.. haha.

I tried my "cherry" musings, and there is not any of the cherry flavors I bought in GJ or BB. good news is during some of these trials, using the original recipe I posted with some tweaks and a blend of tobaccos, I found something I greatly prefer to GJ or BB .. but as Levitas keeps saying.. this is just fun, so im going to keep trying.

I need to buy/try:
FAark Vapure

any other recommendations?

im at work now, i'll try to check in tonight / later this week with full details of my tests and combos. Sorry ive been a little absent, but im loving the conversation and all the ideas!

 

[Roland007]

Wow. That's a lot of testing. Thanks forte updates!

 

[Bob57]

I'm considering making an order with highdesertvapes for some of their organic alcohol based flavorings. They look similar to a lot of the organic juices bruce makes at CoV with butterscotch, kona cream, creamy caramel, creamy vanilla, pancakes, etc. I have no idea where Bruce gets his flavoring and it's most likely not these guys(even though that's A LOT of coincidences) but from what it seems like that site has VERY similar flavorings to what he uses, down the the organic, alcohol based part and all. CoV Butterscotch is by far one of the best juices i've ever vaped and if I could find an identical (or especially the exact flavoring) DIY base that would just make life a lot better!

I agree COV BS has been my favorite so far, tried a few different mixs but nothing even close.
I think with the warning it must have a lot of butter, or thats what i'm getting out of it?
Sorry for getting off topic, maybe someone can start a COV BS thread?
Following this thread and being new to DIY I just got some GJ and Bobas from Alien Vapor both 50/50 and so far I dont care much for it, nothing like I thought it would be.
Maybe steeping for a week or two will help? I just dont get the flavors that everyone is talking about, cant get past the smell and it's like a bitter green banana.
I'll give it another shot in a few days, maybe it's just different for me because I've smoked for 40 years?
I'm learning a lot from this thread and want to thank everyone for sharing the info!

 

[Levitas]

Following this thread and being new to DIY I just got some GJ and Bobas from Alien Vapor both 50/50 and so far I dont care much for it, nothing like I thought it would be.
Maybe steeping for a week or two will help? I just dont get the flavors that everyone is talking about, cant get past the smell and it's like a bitter green banana.

There's your problem, my friend. Alien Visions: Alien Visions E-Juice is the proprietor of the original Gorilla Juice and Boba's Bounty. What you have there is a cheap knock off

 

[Bob57]

I was just ready to post how much I have to learn because I just figured out my mistake in the last hour.
The tip off was re reading about the VG content and then figured out what I have wasnt the same thing being discussed here.

Please disreguard my post and over look my noobness.

 

[H0mebrew]

i was thinking about this the other day because i was reading about how BB tasted in other forums... and i was also reading about how GJ tasted.. i was like " GJ sounds the same as this BB stuff..... put aside the fruit"... hmmm hey homebrew...

do you feel that your recipe up there^^ is a very very close match to BB?

all that vape wizard seems off to me.. being as its the only "flavor" in a higher percentage..

Everyones taste is subjective. It seems very close to me if I leave the tobacco out and vape my mix and then vape BB the difference I get with BB in taste is what Commercial smells like. After adding the Commercial to my mix it is a little sweeter and now I detect a nutty note in BB that is not in mine. So Commercial is not the tobacco. Since I am now picking up the nutty note I might try a small amount of DK Tobacco. It has a nut flavor and is slightly sweeter than a 555.

Maybe I have fried my tastebuds with all this testing. lol

 

[H0mebrew]

I have been using MTS vape wizard in all of my mixes, BUT I highly doubt this is an essential flavoring for BB or GJ because I dont think it was around when that was created. I have tried Cinnamon Danish, and its not even a remotely close match IMHO, but it is damn good. I have tried 2 variants of coconut starting at .5% and im fairly sure there isn't any coconut in BB or GJ... I pick up on coconut really quick partially because I hate it.. haha.

I agree that MTS Vape Wizard doesn't contribute much other than color. It does have a slight flavor which is hard to describe that I can detect in all the mixes that I use it in.

While I was waiting on my first order of Bobas to arrive, I tried some of the earlier recipies based on Graham cracker and they were pretty good but I found the Graham Cracker tended to dominate the mix. I expected Bobas to taste like those recipies. When My Boba's arrived the first thing tasted was cinnamon followed by coconut. Not what I was expecting.

I have some Dark Vapure steeping that I have not tried yet. I will try a little bit of that.

 

[digunderground]

Since I am now picking up the nutty note I might try a small amount of DK Tobacco. It has a nut flavor and is slightly sweeter than a 555.

If you are looking for nutty, I get a heavy nutty note from this one Turkish Tobacco blend I picked up. Totally not what I would have expected from a "Turkish" tobacco blend, but its definitely there.

I agree that MTS Vape Wizard doesn't contribute much other than color. It does have a slight flavor which is hard to describe that I can detect in all the mixes that I use it in....

I have some Dark Vapure steeping that I have not tried yet. I will try a little bit of that.

I wasn't knocking MTS Vape Wizard, I love that stuff. It really rounds off some mixes and adds complexity. All I meant was MTS vape wizard was not around when BB was originally created, so I doubt it has been added since.

I have no clue what Dark Vapure tastes/smalls like.. Ill have to get some. There is still a list of things I want to grab. After all these experiments I KNOW at least one of the missing notes is a tobacco, I just cant figure out which one. Its definitely a mellow tobacco, like the tobaccos that taste like a drag through an un-lit Marlboro, if you know what I mean. that sweet-ish earthy flavor.. I'll have to look around and keep getting tobaccos. Does anyone know what the "old" tobacco flavors / suppliers are?

 

[graffinfected]

If you are looking for nutty, I get a heavy nutty note from this one Turkish Tobacco blend I picked up. Totally not what I would have expected from a "Turkish" tobacco blend, but its definitely there.



I wasn't knocking MTS Vape Wizard, I love that stuff. It really rounds off some mixes and adds complexity. All I meant was MTS vape wizard was not around when BB was originally created, so I doubt it has been added since.

I have no clue what Dark Vapure tastes/smalls like.. Ill have to get some. There is still a list of things I want to grab. After all these experiments I KNOW at least one of the missing notes is a tobacco, I just cant figure out which one. Its definitely a mellow tobacco, like the tobaccos that taste like a drag through an un-lit Marlboro, if you know what I mean. that sweet-ish earthy flavor.. I'll have to look around and keep getting tobaccos. Does anyone know what the "old" tobacco flavors / suppliers are?

the 555 is nutty... the desert ship is nutty also..

old tobaccos??? i dont know if perfumers apprentice was around in that time.. when you said "mellow" it reminded me of a tobacco flavor that was in my shopping cart at liberty flights one day... its from flavor art and its called Mellow sunset tobacco flavor .. or something like that.

its out of stock though.. like always everything i was is out of stock... which is why i dont even bother looking for any AVE juices.

 

[glassmanoak]

Graff, to get AVE juices you have to have your shopping cart and be waiting on their site at 8 AM PAC time. I'm not sure it is worth it, but that's the way to get it.

 

[H0mebrew]

I tried the DK tobacco(TPA) and it is not what I am looking for.

I tried Captain Black and while it is not the one it was very good.

Either my tastebuds are fried or the Boba's is still steeping, The cinnamon taste is fading in my Boba's and the nutty flavor is starting to take over. Maybe I need to step away from the juice.

 

[Levitas]

Graff, to get AVE juices you have to have your shopping cart and be waiting on their site at 8 AM PAC time. I'm not sure it is worth it, but that's the way to get it.

It's definitely worth it, for me

But I can't play that game anymore, thus I DIY.

 

[graffinfected]

holy crap people.. i just remembered something from reading on another thread that just popped up...


vinegar... cider vinegar... mix it with tobacco to enhance the flavor over time... this could be a missing ingredient to what we are looking for in GJ.. it can explain the redish coloring.. just look up "organic cidar vinegar " on google images.. theres you red color..???

however.. it could be this and maybe something else... rather than just cidar alone... maybe some lemon juice because the lemon juice brings out the fruity flavors better...

i completely forgot about this.. till i read that thread...

 

[graffinfected]

here you go... i found this in an older thread..


This is from the Magic Mask description @ E-Cigexpress website: Reduce the acid perception without modifying the pH. pH is one of the key factors involved in food stability. In order to reduce the pH, a small amount of organic acid must be added to the food preparation (i.e. citric, malic, tartaric acid). In most cases the addition of food acid is beneficial both for microbiological stability and taste.

I think if you read this closely:pH is one of the key factors involved in food stability.
This means we need to control the PH level of our juice.

In order to reduce the pH, a small amount of organic acid must be added to the food preparation (i.e. citric, malic, tartaric acid).
We need to add an organic acid to our juice to reduce the PH. Two common organic acids I know of are Vinegar or Lemon Juice. (Lemon juice was going to be part of my original question, but I thought the vinegar alone would get more response. Vendors are also using Lemon Juice.)

In most cases the addition of food acid is beneficial both for microbiological stability and taste.
This seems to say it helps to keep bacteria from growing and helps it taste better.

Reduce the acid perception without modifying the pH.
THEN we add the Magic Mask to hide the taste of a lower PH (acid flavor) if needed.


here is the thread i got it from... http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/252238-vinegar.html

 

[H0mebrew]

holy crap people.. i just remembered something from reading on another thread that just popped up...


vinegar... cider vinegar... mix it with tobacco to enhance the flavor over time... this could be a missing ingredient to what we are looking for in GJ.. it can explain the redish coloring.. just look up "organic cidar vinegar " on google images.. theres you red color..???

however.. it could be this and maybe something else... rather than just cidar alone... maybe some lemon juice because the lemon juice brings out the fruity flavors better...

i completely forgot about this.. till i read that thread...

I have used Apple cider vinegar and lemon juice before. From what I remember they do tend to bring out the flavors a little more and seemed to slow down the flavor changes during steeping. You have to use a tiny amount like 1 to 3 drops per 10ml. If you use too much your juice will taste like lemon juice or vinegar.

 

[H0mebrew]

This is from the Magic Mask description @ E-Cigexpress website: Reduce the acid perception without modifying the pH. pH is one of the key factors involved in food stability. In order to reduce the pH, a small amount of organic acid must be added to the food preparation (i.e. citric, malic, tartaric acid). In most cases the addition of food acid is beneficial both for microbiological stability and taste.

Sweet I bout some Magic Mask in my last order.

 

[H0mebrew]

The mystery nutty flavor is now tasting like Walnut to me. Is anyone else picking walnut or could this be the raisin note that some seem to get?

 

[s3m1c00l]

Hello,

Long time lurker, first time poster. I have been following this thread with great interest lately and would like to share my thoughts on the current project. I think a base made out of steeped tobacco leaves is really the key to this. I was following the discussion with mwa102464 regarding the steeped bases he made and that made me really think about many nuances of Gorilla Juice and Boba's Bounty.

First off, this would explain why they are unable to offer a juice at 0mg nic. Steeping the leaves will leave nicotine in the juice at small amounts (2-3mg), but prevent it from being labeled as 0mg. They only offer these juices at 6mg because there is still a bit of demand for this level of nicotine. They have stated that they "can't" offer these juices at 0mg due to "flavorings used that contain nicotine". I argue that the "flavoring used" is actually a steeped tobacco leaf base that will always have trace amounts of nicotine.

The next tip off was related to the "down time" that occurs when they need to restock and take GJ and BB offline. These downtimes are generally weeks at a time. If you were missing a base for your most popular mixes, would you not pay for a more expedient shipping method? Shipping should not take this long, especially with the current demand for the product. Their site states "Our juices are mixed by order to taste with each and every order." This indicates that the mixing process is not overly time consuming and the restock time is not due to the effort to mix/develop the juices ahead of time. So I believe this to mean that the base used is either very popular with a high demand causing shipping delays (not likely, as we would have heard about it) or time consuming to develop (which would fit in with the steeping of leaves time frame).

I was also considering the "100% VG" term that has been posted here a few times. After researching the steeping process, it turns out that a little PGA helps to pull more flavors from the leaf/VG mix. There are also many flavorings that are suspended in an ALC (alcohol) base, as opposed to PG. I recently found this little tidbit from their site: "Our "VG" liquids would be better labeled as "PG -free" and if you look at the description for BB and GJ - you will see it stated "Highlights: 100% PG - Free". I take this to mean that their flavorings, mixed with their steeped base, are not 100% VG based. You can steep leaves in 100% VG/ALC and add in flavorings afterwards that are just suspended in the ALC base, but still call it "100% VG".

The statement from the owner regarding the simplicity of the recipe and the small amount of ingredients, leads me to believe that the complexity of these flavors must be derived from a complex base. This level of intensity can only come from a rather full/developed base. One that I believe can only result from steeping tobacco leaves (possibly multiple types mixed together). I am uncertain if they steep their leaves onsite or order this base from a supplier who does the steeping, but both options would account for the "down time" between restocking and the lack of 0mg juices. Finding flavorings in an ALC base is not difficult and would allow them to use the "100% VG" / "100% PG - Free" statements.

I apologize for the rather long wall of text. It was just a bunch of thoughts that required mental "steeping" before bringing them public. For the record, I have actually started to steep my own leaves in a VG base about a week ago. I currently have Havana 7, Burley, Canadian Virginia Flue Cured, and Brightleaf Virginia Flue Cured - Sweet steeping in my cabinet. These might not be the "base" of the mixes currently being analyzed, but I must say that the smell of these are VERY appealing. I really do think that this method is the key to unlocking a whole new level of DIY experience. Thank you, mwa102464. I honestly would not have considered this method myself.

 

[graffinfected]

ok, so bakupeg isnt the only one steeping leaves.. i have been wanting to get some leaves into my mailbox also.. regardless on if they are the right leaves or the "key" to this recipe or not.. im sure they will be good to mix with anyways.. im going to grab that Black n Mild from vapingzone and go ahead and order some leaves.. although i wish they had a cheaper option...

i also would have to go back and read mwa's post on directions for steeping these leaves because i have forgotten how to do it.. luckily i have a pm from him and i can always head back a few pages in this thread to find out..

Bakupeg... if your reading this.. have you started your steeping yet??... if you have does it smell fantastic?..



i feel like he's right.. this could very much open new doors to DIY.. think of any other types of leaves you can use for this.. we can really get some nice flavors in our mixes...

 

[glassmanoak]

I'm bumping this thread because it needs to stay alive