Greetings and toxicology

[someone3x7]

Some suppliers have had toxicology tests done - links to those have been posted on the forum. Guessing figures is neither here nor there.
I highly doubt Philip Morris will lobby for every potentially applicable test - the results for cigarettes are so appalling that they would be harming themselves PR wise. It is more likely that if vaping really catches on they will think about moving into the industry and producing e cigs. They're business people - they'll go where the money is. But they've never been too keen on safety.

You realize Philip Morris is into everything from Gasoline to Baby Food? Kraft Macaroni is one of my favorite products of theirs. So think Umbrella Corporation. Yes, they will want into Electronic Cigarettes. But they are a viciously competitive uncaring super-corp. That was just one thought of how they might try to destroy the smaller competition with their might.

Edit: starting to get off topic again though...

 

[DC2]

It sounds like some people here are not aware that Big tobacco is already in the electronic cigarette game.
Lorillard (the makers of Newport and Kent cigarettes) bought Blu a few months ago.

Just FYI...

 

[someone3x7]

It sounds like some people here are not aware that Big tobacco is already in the electronic cigarette game.
Lorillard (the makers of Newport and Kent cigarettes) bought Blu a few months ago.

Just FYI...

Were doomed! DHOOOOOMED! Heh, j/k

 

[Homeplace]

Interesting thread. I couldn't read the entire thing. Started at the beginning, read thru 5 pages and skipped to the end. Being new to this: 1 mth., I've been wondering about things like how the "safe" PG, used in inhalers, various drinks, etc. acts when heated into a gas. Also VG. I hadn't thought about plastic releasing toxins when heated-a hot topic in recent years applied to microwaving foods and plastic drink containers left in hot cars. Good point.
Recently, I've been taken required courses to renew my CA RE license and learned about enviornmental hazards including Formaldehyde (found in new carpeting, glues & particle board). Not nice stuff.
My concern, since realizing how incredibly well ecigs work to stop smoking, has been that the big money corporations (ie;drug companies & tobacco companies) would have the power to shut down ecigs, as they've done with other "cures". I'm actually glad they are embracing and getting into the industry instead. Once they have a vested interest, they will use their power to promote rather than outlaw (though the dreaded "walmart" type monopoly becomes the next concern). According to utube videos, it seems easy enough to get hold of vg (walmart-my bad) and flavorings (established as usage for other industries). It may eventually be time to stock up on nicotine juice.
My take away is to search for glass clearomizers, get a higher vg concentration until I'm ready to try DIY (and find a safe workspace and ingredient storage space so my little grand daughter doesn't find it) . I realized tonight that that is probably what has been wrong with the liquids I recently ordered anyway. They all have more of a "dishwater" taste than taste. More steeping? I've tentatively decided it is the PG taste, after what I've been reading about vg makiing flavor has finally sunk in. The mixes I just got were 80/20 & 70/30.
Also, veer away from butter/custard, vanilla and wintergreen if possible.

 

[someone3x7]

Interesting thread. I couldn't read the entire thing. Started at the beginning, read thru 5 pages and skipped to the end. Being new to this: 1 mth., I've been wondering about things like how the "safe" PG, used in inhalers, various drinks, etc. acts when heated into a gas. Also VG. I hadn't thought about plastic releasing toxins when heated-a hot topic in recent years applied to microwaving foods and plastic drink containers left in hot cars. Good point.
Recently, I've been taken required courses to renew my CA RE license and learned about enviornmental hazards including Formaldehyde (found in new carpeting, glues & particle board). Not nice stuff.
My concern, since realizing how incredibly well ecigs work to stop smoking, has been that the big money corporations (ie;drug companies & tobacco companies) would have the power to shut down ecigs, as they've done with other "cures". I'm actually glad they are embracing and getting into the industry instead. Once they have a vested interest, they will use their power to promote rather than outlaw (though the dreaded "walmart" type monopoly becomes the next concern). According to utube videos, it seems easy enough to get hold of vg (walmart-my bad) and flavorings (established as usage for other industries). It may eventually be time to stock up on nicotine juice.
My take away is to search for glass clearomizers, get a higher vg concentration until I'm ready to try DIY (and find a safe workspace and ingredient storage space so my little grand daughter doesn't find it) . I realized tonight that that is probably what has been wrong with the liquids I recently ordered anyway. They all have more of a "dishwater" taste than taste. More steeping? I've tentatively decided it is the PG taste, after what I've been reading about vg makiing flavor has finally sunk in. The mixes I just got were 80/20 & 70/30.
Also, veer away from butter/custard, vanilla and wintergreen if possible.

PG isn't as much as a concern as it first looked. The formaldehyde released is almost indistinguishable from what is naturally in the air already. If your getting a dishwater taste you may want to make sure those juices are not using PEG400 (Polyethylene Glycol, molecular weight 400). For digestion its much safer than either PG or VG, however, at that particular weight it is very bad for your lungs. Typically notable for its bled out & stale presentation of flavor. Glass with steel caps is a good choice. I've been trying to find that study again that discussed the leaching of plastics to no avail. Lately, I have been wondering if I have my plastics backwards :/

Edit: still can't find that study, but, I at least found an advertisement that indicates I wasn't backwards in the head....

 

[DC2]

My concern, since realizing how incredibly well ecigs work to stop smoking, has been that the big money corporations (ie;drug companies & tobacco companies) would have the power to shut down ecigs, as they've done with other "cures". I'm actually glad they are embracing and getting into the industry instead.

Big Tobacco hasn't done much of anything to oppose electronic cigarettes thus far.
In fact, after waiting on the sidelines for so long now, they are now jumping into the market.

Big Pharmacy on the other hand is behind every effort to stop electronic cigarettes.
And they have enlisted those that they fund to do their dirty work for them.

The New Corporate America Business Model
How Health Regulators Are Killing American Smokers - Forbes
Now the FDA Is Trying to Kill Smokers | Fox News

 

[someone3x7]

I never though I would be reading a fox article and be laughing with them instead of laughing at them...

 

[rondasherrill]

I never though I would be reading a fox article and be laughing with them instead of laughing at them...

Agreed LOL. I was just about to post that Fox News isn't a reliable source for anything, till I read the article... Of course the other problem is, how many people will assume that article is BS, just for having the same thought process I initially did.

 

[Bullette the Cowdog]

You realize Philip Morris is into everything from Gasoline to Baby Food? Kraft Macaroni is one of my favorite products of theirs. So think Umbrella Corporation. Yes, they will want into Electronic Cigarettes. But they are a viciously competitive uncaring super-corp. That was just one thought of how they might try to destroy the smaller competition with their might.

Edit: starting to get off topic again though...

Off topic:
Actually, the holding company, Altria Group (MO) spun-off Kraft (KFT) in 2007 and Phillip Morris International (PM) in 2008. Your cheese & your cigarettes are separate entities.
--Cowdog fact checker

 

[kiwivap]

You realize Philip Morris is into everything from Gasoline to Baby Food? Kraft Macaroni is one of my favorite products of theirs. So think Umbrella Corporation. Yes, they will want into Electronic Cigarettes. But they are a viciously competitive uncaring super-corp. That was just one thought of how they might try to destroy the smaller competition with their might.

Edit: starting to get off topic again though...

Not off topic to me, but speculative. The point I made was that they aren't keen on safety with cigs. They are profit driven. Marketing will be the strategy - they have more money to spend on it. I highly doubt they will bother trying to have silly regulations implemented. As I said - it will reflect badly on them for the cigs, and will tie them up too much.

 

[kiwivap]

It sounds like some people here are not aware that Big Tobacco is already in the electronic cigarette game.
Lorillard (the makers of Newport and Kent cigarettes) bought Blu a few months ago.

Just FYI...

Yes, I know. And look how many people start with Blu. Money and marketing have quite an influence.

 

[kiwivap]

My concern, since realizing how incredibly well ecigs work to stop smoking, has been that the big money corporations (ie;drug companies & tobacco companies) would have the power to shut down ecigs, as they've done with other "cures". I'm actually glad they are embracing and getting into the industry instead. Once they have a vested interest, they will use their power to promote rather than outlaw (though the dreaded "walmart" type monopoly becomes the next concern).

I agree. I think the profile is growing all the time. But you're right - the cheap and over-priced ecigs could dominate at the expense of quality. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

[msmaster]

just have to make people realize that with e-cig usually money provides more quality and its not a toy.

 

[someone3x7]

Coming back into topic a bit. Tonight I got to thinking about Pure Grain Alcohol as an ingredient. Now I have seen this in a few other threads but the math always seemed off to me. So I ran through it myself. Now the highest I've heard anyone claiming to vape in a day is 6mL. Your average liquid in your average rig is vaped at about 0.9uL per second. I forget exactly where I get that from but it was in some study or another. At 16 hours wake-time would be 0.375mL per hour. If a liquid contains 20% alcohol this would be 0.075mL ethyl an hour. Assuming an average of 3 second vapes we would be looking at about 139 vapes an hour and 0.0005mL ethyl per vape. The average human body has 5.6 liters of blood. Assuming 100% absorption into the bloodstream (unlikely scenario) we would be looking at 0.075/5600 or 0.00001339% BAC. Also, a healthy adult can metabolize 9.5ml of ethyl per hour. Which makes most this math pointless since even at 100% absorption you would be metabolizing faster than you can vape it. When I actually try to run this through on online BAC calculator for a person of 160lbs with a body absorption of 0.6 it gives me -0.015% (That is a negative ladies and gentlemen).

 

[X P3 Flight Engineer]

Coming back into topic a bit. Tonight I got to thinking about Pure Grain Alcohol as an ingredient. Now I have seen this in a few other threads but the math always seemed off to me. So I ran through it myself. Now the highest I've heard anyone claiming to vape in a day is 6mL. Your average liquid in your average rig is vaped at about 0.9uL per second. I forget exactly where I get that from but it was in some study or another. At 16 hours wake-time would be 0.375mL per hour. If a liquid contains 20% alcohol this would be 0.075mL ethyl an hour. Assuming an average of 3 second vapes we would be looking at about 139 vapes an hour and 0.0005mL ethyl per vape. The average human body has 5.6 liters of blood. Assuming 100% absorption into the bloodstream (unlikely scenario) we would be looking at 0.075/5600 or 0.00001339% BAC. Also, a healthy adult can metabolize 9.5ml of ethyl per hour. Which makes most this math pointless since even at 100% absorption you would be metabolizing faster than you can vape it. When I actually try to run this through on online BAC calculator for a person of 160lbs with a body absorption of 0.6 it gives me -0.015% (That is a negative ladies and gentlemen).

You also forgot to research the boiling point of alcohol.

 

[kiwivap]

Big Tobacco hasn't done much of anything to oppose electronic cigarettes thus far.
In fact, after waiting on the sidelines for so long now, they are now jumping into the market.

Big Pharmacy on the other hand is behind every effort to stop electronic cigarettes.
And they have enlisted those that they fund to do their dirty work for them.

Good point. As the saying goes, "Follow the money".

 

[JENerationX]

Interesting read. I chain vaped through it with some butterscotch in a plastic clearo. Now I'm going to go make an omelet with lots of bacon, eggs (with the yolks), and a side of buttery cinnamon toast, pour myself a glass of orange juice, and relax.

We know that vaping has to be far less harmful than smoking because we have common sense, but even if there was a peer reviewed host of tests and studies that showed it was only 50% less harmful, I'd still be willing to take my chances.

 

[kiwivap]

Coming back into topic a bit. Tonight I got to thinking about Pure Grain Alcohol as an ingredient. Now I have seen this in a few other threads but the math always seemed off to me. So I ran through it myself. Now the highest I've heard anyone claiming to vape in a day is 6mL. Your average liquid in your average rig is vaped at about 0.9uL per second. I forget exactly where I get that from but it was in some study or another. At 16 hours wake-time would be 0.375mL per hour. If a liquid contains 20% alcohol this would be 0.075mL ethyl an hour. Assuming an average of 3 second vapes we would be looking at about 139 vapes an hour and 0.0005mL ethyl per vape. The average human body has 5.6 liters of blood. Assuming 100% absorption into the bloodstream (unlikely scenario) we would be looking at 0.075/5600 or 0.00001339% BAC. Also, a healthy adult can metabolize 9.5ml of ethyl per hour. Which makes most this math pointless since even at 100% absorption you would be metabolizing faster than you can vape it. When I actually try to run this through on online BAC calculator for a person of 160lbs with a body absorption of 0.6 it gives me -0.015% (That is a negative ladies and gentlemen).

Alcohol metabolism varies widely among individuals and is dependent on several factors, including gender, age, liver size and body mass. An average figure can't be applied as one size doesn't fit all. Your figures don't allow for the amount lost through sweat or excretion. There is oxidation when alcohol is released into the bloodstream, but most metabolism continues in the liver.
However, the boiling point of alcohol renders all of that irrelevant when vaping.

 

[Inko]

Interesting read.

 

[someone3x7]

You also forgot to research the boiling point of alcohol.

Boiling point isn't nearly as important as the decomposition temperature. When boiling it is ethyl still. FYI Boiling 79C and decomposition at 220C.