Hana Modz awarded $300k in copyright battle
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your the one assuming.
they do not need a utility patent.
they designed and made the product.
one can make a 1.1 copy of another product.
that's not illegal.
buying it and or selling it is.
if they re-open under another name
doing the same thing
Hana can go after the money they
are owed using the previous judgement.
it would be sufficient proof they closed
to avoid judgement.
mike
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What part of the mod did they design?
And how can they prove proprietary design on any part?
Edit:
I see you don't understand how this works legally.
I can't argue with you when you don't understand how business works.
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you don't understand the illegality's
here is how it works.
i can make a car today and sell it.
however if it looks exactly like a
Ford Focus i had better be FMC
or have a licensed agreement with them.
there hundreds of parts in a Ford Focus
that they do not have a utility patent on them and
if i used parts with no utility patents on them
are you telling me theres nothing they could
do?
mike
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YOU don't understand the legal system. It's been stated on here MULTIPLE times, they got sued for copying the LOGO. Thats not OK or legal.
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your right.
its also the first logical step to take because
it establish's their brand.
the next step if they chose to do so is bring
suite against anyone in the states selling just
clones of their products because the logo
case establish's their brand.
regards
mike
I'll agree to Disagree since my Original Rainbow Heaven Vamo was only $30 to my Door and It (Cheap as you say, is still working fine 2.5yrs later. Sure I have nicer mods, but the vamo was still a China frontier mod, introduced functional VW and was NOT A PROVARI knock-off.
As to the Rattle snake............ I have only heard it on my ProtankII's and it never affected getting a very decent Vape.
People also claimed it was weak and not able to produce 15watts. However it would do so all day long with 2x 18350's - AS Designed.
That was then, this is now. So how would a Provari beat up on an IPV mini 70w?
No matter how you slice it - comparing/claiming Vamo vs. Provari has nothing to do with the thread topic.
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I'll agree to Disagree since my Original Rainbow Heaven Vamo was only $30 to my Door and It (Cheap as you say, is still working fine 2.5yrs later. Sure I have nicer mods, but the vamo was still a China frontier mod, introduced functional VW and was NOT A PROVARI knock-off.
As to the Rattle snake............ I have only heard it on my ProtankII's and it never affected getting a very decent Vape.
People also claimed it was weak and not able to produce 15watts. However it would do so all day long with 2x 18350's - AS Designed.
That was then, this is now. So how would a Provari beat up on an IPV mini 70w?
No matter how you slice it - comparing/claiming Vamo vs. Provari has nothing to do with the thread topic.
If you took a Provari and an IPV mini and smashed them together until one broke...i'm confident the IPV would break first
.
There's only one way to deal with cloning. GUS and ProVari (and probably other companies that aren't immediately coming to mind) have figured it out.
You create a high quality piece that is reasonably priced and readily available that is intricate enough to make it difficult to clone.
No lawsuit will fix the problem. No amount of complaining and fanboying will stop imports. Only making it unprofitable for cloners in China will stop the trade.
And from what I've seen from Hana, they don't make a intricate piece or have them readily available.
You create a high quality piece that is reasonably priced and readily available that is intricate enough to make it difficult to clone.
No lawsuit will fix the problem. No amount of complaining and fanboying will stop imports. Only making it unprofitable for cloners in China will stop the trade.
And from what I've seen from Hana, they don't make a intricate piece or have them readily available.
I agree in fact I think this much is enough... create a high quality piece that is reasonably priced and available.
I agree that Hana has a right to exclusive use of their trademark.
But if I go one step beyond that and look at the mod... good grief 250 bux.
I agree that Hana has a right to sell at whatever price they wish.
Except the Dna 40 I guess that everything that makes a Hana mod is sourced from China, probably assembled in China?
The margins seem pretty big and that is what makes them vulnerable.
More value = less clones.
Also -
The plaintiff (or any other original producer for that matter) will be swamped or unable to claim on short order.
In US IP case law, it is well established that a demonstrable failure to defend your intellectual property constitutes a de facto waiver of the right to do so in the future. If any defense attorney could reasonably show that a plaintiff knew about any prior infraction, by any party to which they had a reasonable claim, and failed to act, this failure to act would be a viable defense.
You MAY NOT cherry pick your defendants. Either you take every trespasser to court, or you don't get to take any of them to court. That's not the law as written, that's how the case law interpretations have come down. With the long standing precedent in several copyright and trade mark jurisdictions, it's not getting overturned for a niche market manufacturer.
A reasonable exception could be made to this precedent for things like Fasttech or Focal, as well as the Chinese producers. Being overseas, and subject to a whole different legal paradigm might be sufficient to not have to show that you at least tried.
It would be very easy to round up a list of several hundred B&M shops that make a habit of selling clones and send that list to original manufacturers. That would make them aware of the transgressions. They would then be out several hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to chase each and every case down, often in the states where the shops are, as opposed to where they are located. Failure to act on the whole list within a reasonable timeframe (measured in months, not years) would make anyone not on the list able to transgress with impunity.
Why do you think Metallica sued Napster - it wasn't about the few sales they might have lost due to online piracy, it was a drop in the bucket, and they were quite rich enough. It wasn't about what's fair and right and righteous. It was about not having to forfeit the right to defend their copyright later if they so chose. The rest of the industry could only claim to be "unaware" for so long before someone was going to have to do it.
The plaintiff (or any other original producer for that matter) will be swamped or unable to claim on short order.
In US IP case law, it is well established that a demonstrable failure to defend your intellectual property constitutes a de facto waiver of the right to do so in the future. If any defense attorney could reasonably show that a plaintiff knew about any prior infraction, by any party to which they had a reasonable claim, and failed to act, this failure to act would be a viable defense.
You MAY NOT cherry pick your defendants. Either you take every trespasser to court, or you don't get to take any of them to court. That's not the law as written, that's how the case law interpretations have come down. With the long standing precedent in several copyright and trade mark jurisdictions, it's not getting overturned for a niche market manufacturer.
A reasonable exception could be made to this precedent for things like Fasttech or Focal, as well as the Chinese producers. Being overseas, and subject to a whole different legal paradigm might be sufficient to not have to show that you at least tried.
It would be very easy to round up a list of several hundred B&M shops that make a habit of selling clones and send that list to original manufacturers. That would make them aware of the transgressions. They would then be out several hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to chase each and every case down, often in the states where the shops are, as opposed to where they are located. Failure to act on the whole list within a reasonable timeframe (measured in months, not years) would make anyone not on the list able to transgress with impunity.
Why do you think Metallica sued Napster - it wasn't about the few sales they might have lost due to online piracy, it was a drop in the bucket, and they were quite rich enough. It wasn't about what's fair and right and righteous. It was about not having to forfeit the right to defend their copyright later if they so chose. The rest of the industry could only claim to be "unaware" for so long before someone was going to have to do it.
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If you took a Provari and an IPV mini and smashed them together until one broke...i'm confident the IPV would break first
Prefer Vaping on my gear and taking care of it. Maybe...............Just maybe...........that is why none of my Regulated mods have failed.
Funny thing - Got the same grief when I purchased the eVics.(still working fine by the way) That also was NOT an attempt at cloning the Provari
Serious question: Are you qualified to make statements about the application of IP law? You seem to have a little more on the ball than most, but since I'm not in that field you could be blowing smoke just like them and I wouldn't know it - save for the fact that this is the Internet.
Do they think this is going to entice people to decide to go ahead and pay $200 for their mods? Lol, some victory. It's not like it's going to get them more sales.
Sitting here waiting for my cloned Paragon, Nemesis, Pollux and Freakshow to show up with a cloned Magma and Tugboat sitting in front of me
It's a little bit different story with Hana because of the circuitry and board that's inside, but $200 for a metal tube? Don't think so, elitists can suck it
Sitting here waiting for my cloned Paragon, Nemesis, Pollux and Freakshow to show up with a cloned Magma and Tugboat sitting in front of me
It's a little bit different story with Hana because of the circuitry and board that's inside, but $200 for a metal tube? Don't think so, elitists can suck it
I applaud Hana for moving this issue forward. The first one through the wall always gets bloody.
Opinions Only. I won't argue.
1. No logos is the way to go. Until that ends as well. Next to electronics, this is one of the only
markets I've seen where you can walk into a B&M, and the counterfeits are openly displayed, and sold as inventory.
Blows my mind. A replica with a logo is a counterfeit. Period.
Also consider that it's probably illegal (mail fraud in the USA?) to pay business taxes on counterfeits.
2. No counterfeiter can, or will, guarantee the quality of the materials. A replica of a high-end device will not be produced
with the same quality metals, and if they say it is ... how would you believe them anyway? Bad steel, bad silver, bad copper,
bad brass, and bad gold is harmful. We stopped smoking because it's poison. You think inhaling fumes from pot
metal won't kill you? Think again.
3. Yes, it's not hard to push electricity from point A to point B, even using crap metal. If the voltage drop on your counterfeit
is better than my original ... I could care less. The choice to own what we want is all of ours. If you are happy, so am I.
4. Counterfeiters will produce replicas with no logos if that's what the distributors/retailers ask for. Meaning, to change
the market, and ask for replicas.
5. The majority of mod builders are small space craftspeople; and not in a position to "lawyer up" in the first place.
The reason you have to buy counterfeit clothing, purses, watches, etc. from behind a curtain in a back room off of
Canal Street (enter your local black market here), is the companies being ripped off have legal teams that handle this stuff.
6. If a designer/builder wants to sell a nifty e-cig for $5000.00, that's up to them. It's a niche within a niche.
- I'll admit right now that I have a borrowed no logo replica in my possession this week. Would I pay nearly $300.00
for the original? Yes. Why? Because that's how much the builder sells it for. I guess "elitists" pay retail.(?)
Opinions Only. I won't argue.
1. No logos is the way to go. Until that ends as well. Next to electronics, this is one of the only
markets I've seen where you can walk into a B&M, and the counterfeits are openly displayed, and sold as inventory.
Blows my mind. A replica with a logo is a counterfeit. Period.
Also consider that it's probably illegal (mail fraud in the USA?) to pay business taxes on counterfeits.
2. No counterfeiter can, or will, guarantee the quality of the materials. A replica of a high-end device will not be produced
with the same quality metals, and if they say it is ... how would you believe them anyway? Bad steel, bad silver, bad copper,
bad brass, and bad gold is harmful. We stopped smoking because it's poison. You think inhaling fumes from pot
metal won't kill you? Think again.
3. Yes, it's not hard to push electricity from point A to point B, even using crap metal. If the voltage drop on your counterfeit
is better than my original ... I could care less. The choice to own what we want is all of ours. If you are happy, so am I.
4. Counterfeiters will produce replicas with no logos if that's what the distributors/retailers ask for. Meaning, to change
the market, and ask for replicas.
5. The majority of mod builders are small space craftspeople; and not in a position to "lawyer up" in the first place.
The reason you have to buy counterfeit clothing, purses, watches, etc. from behind a curtain in a back room off of
Canal Street (enter your local black market here), is the companies being ripped off have legal teams that handle this stuff.
6. If a designer/builder wants to sell a nifty e-cig for $5000.00, that's up to them. It's a niche within a niche.
- I'll admit right now that I have a borrowed no logo replica in my possession this week. Would I pay nearly $300.00
for the original? Yes. Why? Because that's how much the builder sells it for. I guess "elitists" pay retail.(?)
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Nope, Hana could NOT use for the MOD as it was not their proprietary design. Board is/was DNA30<Evolve>
Their Case/judgement was on the Hana LOGO. The HANA and wacky letter (M) on the face of the Mod, nothing more.
if by qualified, you mean: Am I a bar certified atty practicing in the area of intellectual property? Then no, I am not qualified on that level. A few years back I was tangentially associated with a craftsman who made a one off replica of something from a fiction novel for a customer. The novelist found out and had to file suit. I watched the relatively ugly response from that community, until the craftsman in question had his lawyer give us all a bit of an education in the relevant bits of case law. I can't offhand remember the exact cases, but my analysis in prior posts summed it up.
The settlement in the case I watched unfold was the customer had to return the replica, the craftsman had to return his payment, and could then either keep or gift the replica (or destroy it, if he were so inclined). He opted to then give it free of charge to the customer (iirc).
I was actually impressed that the craftsman involved ended up with nothing but good will towards the author, who had to defend his copyright. He had no choice, some member of the community was a friend of the novelist, and sent him an email about the replica, complete with pictures. Even that email was sent not knowing the ramifications, it was a "Hey check out what this guy's doing - how cool is that!?" kind of email. The craftsman wanted to fight it, but his own lawyer explained it pretty thoroughly.
The final breakdown stuck with me after that as a pretty straightforward (even if it is of somewhat questionable logic, I can understand why it might nonetheless be the case)legal principal: Once you are aware of an infringement on your intellectual property, a failure to defend it can be used as a valid defense for any subsequent infringement on that same property.
What a cluster that debacle turned out to be - the vitriol and bile that community was spewing in the author's direction for the suit was ridiculous. The Napster reference came out of that discussion, and a lot of people ate a lot of crow when they were educated on just how tied the author's hands were.
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By that logic, I can sell you a billion dollars of counterfeit us dollars, then when you go buying stuff with it you claim innocence because you didn't manufacture the counterfeit us dollars.
What's important is that next year when you see a "Hana Modz" 100 watt temperature controlled mod at a vape shop for a pretty decent price, you can be confident that it's a genuine Hana Modz box and not some cheap knockoff.
It is really US, the customer's that benefit
Good news! I hope Hana collects and that this helps prevent anyone from making 1 to 1 clones.
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