Hcigar HB DNA 40 anticipation thread

[Technonut]

Yes the "fix" applied by "Vapegeek" can work but also adds yet another contact point that can become an issue also. Why not fix it right instead of just a patch?

Because it's a fast, down-n-dirty solution for vendors, compared to sending a boat-load of units back to hcigar, and having ......-off customers who have to wait?

I agree 100% that they should be corrected properly. I really wouldn't want to be a vendor who has already moved 100+ of these in their present state.. The ones who are only offering a 30 day manufacturing defect warranty pretty much have their asses covered sadly...

 

[retird]

Because it's a fast, down-n-dirty solution for vendors, compared to sending a boat-load of units back to hcigar, and having ......-off customers who have to wait?

I agree 100% that they should be corrected properly. I really wouldn't want to be a vendor who has already moved 100+ of these in their present state.. The ones who are only offering a 30 day manufacturing defect warranty pretty much have their asses covered sadly...

Understand what ya say.....vendor modifications also come with added vendor liabilities....

 

[ZeroOhm]

@Technonut

Apologies for the delay for me to get to the thread, I did notice after seeing Mark's Vlog of the board I was concerned on Hcigars wiring. I have been building 2 dna 40s using Hana cases and modding a clone DNA 40 which used the case as Aty GND there was also an issue with case anodizing and getting a good ground. I still think using the case especially with the DNA 40 and low ohms and all considerations of current pull causes problems and only direct wiring B- / B+ and Aty + / Aty - to the battery and 510 will be the best solution.

I did mod a Zero DNA clone with a DNA 40 and used the case as GND but it has a stainless steel chassis with solid copper wiring soldered the chassis this works fine.

I read half the thread you have got all the answers here but as you said you don't want to buy a mod and end up a DIYing only a few (glad to see Mr Todd doing some @ HMS Vape shed want to or feel they should.

As for the clean build even the recent DNA 40 Hana clones are using cradles so a zero glue build is possible for $50 add the cost an evolv board and a $100 mod is possible.

 

[Technonut]

@Technonut

Apologies for the delay for me to get to the thread, I did notice after seeing Mark's Vlog of the board I was concerned on Hcigars wiring. I have been building 2 DNA 40s using Hana cases and modding a clone DNA 40 which used the case as Aty GND there was also an issue with case anodizing and getting a good ground. I still think using the case especially with the DNA 40 and low ohms and all considerations of current pull causes problems and only direct wiring B- / B+ and Aty + / Aty - to the battery and 510 will be the best solution.

I did mod a Zero DNA clone with a DNA 40 and used the case as GND but it has a stainless steel chassis with solid copper wiring soldered the chassis this works fine.

I read half the thread you have got all the answers here but as you said you don't want to buy a mod and end up a DIYing only a few (glad to see Mr Todd doing some @ HMS Vape shed want to or feel they should.

As for the clean build even the recent DNA 40 Hana clones are using cradles so a zero glue build is possible for $50 add the cost an evolv board and a $100 mod is possible.

Appreciate you stopping by.. Yes, things are pretty much hashed-out now, thankfully. I was quick to jump at the bit when I saw the clean build used. I generally avoid Chinese devices like the plague, and have seen many hot-glue messes in various reviews before, not to mention cheaply-made, inaccurate electronics. The SXmini impressed the hell out of me (still does, judging how it's been practically glued to my hand since late November), and thought the Hcigar would be a safe bet, especially utilizing a genuine DNA 40.

The more I thought about it, the more it frosted my ..... After much thought on the matter about "fixing" the device myself, I realized that I shouldn't need to do that, or just wait around for a crappy warranty to expire, just to have something come up which may fry the board shortly after. I went back and forth, then made the decision to nix the whole thing. I managed to get the order turned-around, but I won't get into that here.. That would be for another forum, and as long as things go smoothly, I will not complain..

I instead opted for one of Hana Modz V4D DNA 40's in their specials section yesterday. Pretty decent price for a dual 18650 DNA 40 IMO. I have used Hana Modz warranty service a couple of times before in the past with the V3 DNA 30, and while not totally satisfied, at least I DO have someone in the USA to send the mod back to for warranty / upgrades if needed in the future. (Note: YiHi has treated me right on RMA service also) The ONLY reason I want a damn DNA 40 now to begin with, is to compare it's temp-protection over YiHi's SXminiJ M Class when it hopefully arrives next month. I'll more than likely make the comparisons, and sell the Hana off afterwards anyway.

I'm sure that given the info that's come out, and certain vendors working with both Evolv, and Hcigar, a new revision will make the HB DNA 40 a VERY good device. Hopefully, the info presented here will be helpful to others in correcting what they already have, and be enjoyable, without fears of their board burning-out.

I really don't have much more to contribute in this thread.. I wish everyone the best of luck, and a BIG thanks to those who have been more than helpful in sorting this out..

 

[fredrikstad]

inside the box looks super! I'm a genius!

Thank you for the head up. I just ordered one Just one left folks.

 

[fredrikstad]

Vape Triad said that two units were given to Evolv. One for Brandon at Evolv. The second unit was for the Evolv distributor in Canada, who is apparently the largest and oldest distributor for Evolv. This is why they worked together on it and looked at the wiring and circuitry.

As per that Evolv distributor, the existing production wiring setup direct from HCigar is a recipe for disaster. Users will have to be reliant on their vendors taking care of them if their boards traces burnout due to the full current load being applied to that one pin. It may not happen immediately.

Mine worked fine from Tuesday to Wednesday running a Taifun GT II on it (single coil), but then I built a 0.08 Ohm dual coil setup on a Derringer, and the Weak Battery issue showed up almost immediately on Wednesday evening. Once it started showing, it would not go away, even when I went back to the Taifun GT II.

Brought it back to Vape Triad on Thursday, where another unit was being sold to another customer at the time. They tested that unit on the spot, and the Weak Battery error popped instantly with his Orchid setup. Dual coil, at 0.12 Ohms.

That's when we started fiddling, and found that tightening the screws worked..... and then it didn't on one of the units. The other customer's unit seemed fine after tightening it, but mine became problematic, so that's when we sat down to look at it. We began jumping wires across the connections and found that connection was solid when we bridged between the lower enclosure screw (that went to the battery negative terminal) directly to the top enclosure grounding screw.

We figured that there was something wrong with the circuit between that battery terminal negative, and the other grounding screw at the top of the enclosure. Something was preventing a good circuit connection, so we jumped the two grounds by attaching a wire directly between those two screws. That actually worked perfectly, and it was a really quick and easy fix.

I was happy with it that night, but Vape Triad apparently met up with Evolv that night afterwards, and was told that it was not a good solution. While it worked temporarily, the issue of all that power going through a single grounding trace on the board was not a good idea, and is why they're on the next solution to ground directly to the pin at the bottom of the board.

I brought my unit in yesterday morning, and watched them disconnect the existing battery negative wire, and tag it to the pin.

They're not using cheap soldering irons either - They had a Weller digital soldering station. Those puppies aren't cheap up here, a couple hundred bucks.

Tham, I was in a hurry, because sweet-vapes stated there where only two left. I just read to the part of this thread where the video of the nice clean wiring was,and people said it was a steal. Then I decided it was nothing to hesitate about. .... f.

 

[fredrikstad]

Vape Triad says that Evolv's UK distributor claims that the board's 1 year warranty is active, and can be taken care of directly with Evolv, if the problem is truly with the chip itself, and not the fault of the mod design (HCigar). Would be nice to hear what Evolv's headquarter's stance on the matter is.

But as it stands, I don't know how Evolv will look at this if a problem arises due to the board being run out of spec with only one grounding pin being used. It will be nice if they cover it... they'd just better prepare for a big load, since it seemed like at least half of the units tested by Vape Triad had the problems so far.

Let's see how it plays out this week.


I think a problem such as the screen glitch would fall under Evolv's domain, but so far, there's been no reports of the screen glitch with this device, thankfully.


If you know you will never run a setup that will push more than 9A through the board's single trace, you could get by, with just bridging the two ground screws. Run a wire underneath the washer that traps the existing wires to connect those two points. That essentially shunts the enclosure out of the equation, and should instantly solve the Weak Battery problem. This solution is way more reliable than tightening the screws, as we found that tightening the screws ultimately did not always work, either. This discovery was made after their initial post on the subject, that was quoted earlier in this thread. That's the problem with not posting the source - readers can't see the updates.

And again, while running a bridge wire between the two grounding posts may work to solve the weak battery problem, be aware that it does NOT solve the issue of excessive load running through the trace paths. This is the warning that Evolv was giving to Vape Triad, and is a much more serious problem than the Weak Battery issue. The latter is just a temporary problem that is fixable. The former is a catastrophic failure problem. If the board burns out due to a poor wiring layout, then it's dead. There's no bringing it back alive, and seeing if Evolv will cover a manufacturer's poor wiring setup will need to be seen. I'm interested to hear what they have to say on that.

But again, if you know you'll never run a high load on this, then you could just get by with the connection bridge. it worked fine when we did it. I'd just rather have the proper Evolv-spec wiring applied so that the load is split in half across the board, because sometimes I do push my setup limits.

I suggest that a moderator updates the OP with this issue. So not someone else like me, jump on it after reading the first two pages. Is there any pictures of the fix? I am not that good in English.

 

[fredrikstad]

Thanks for the info.. It's a VERY big deal to remove the board for many of us who lack the skill.. We purchased completed devices, expecting them to be wired properly. I'm pretty confident that I could solder a wire from the board to the battery holder negative though..

This method appears to be working for the Canadian vendor who is fixing the devices. Interesting point regarding the appropriate wire gauge and pin hole sizes.. I'm not sure if the vendor is removing the reversed USB charging wire, and soldering it in the proper pin, or not.. It could present a problem for me if I cannot get the appropriate gauge wire for the battery negative into the charging pin hole...

Returning the device without even opening the package is looking better and better to me...

I have canceled my order via email. Do you think sweet-vapes will cause some problems with getting my money back? I was using visa. Pitty their was no PayPal option, then i could have filed for refund if an issue occurred. I slap my selfe in the face for not reading a few more pages of this thread before hitting the order button. Let`s hope sweet-vape are fair.

 

[Vapenstein]

I want to thank everyone who contributed to this thread. I like the box, and even with an SX Mini M preordered it's a keeper for me. I just like this box and want to hang on to it as my commuting device.

I've never soldered anything in my life, but with the easy to follow diagrams and pictures posted here I spoke to a guy at a local electronics shop and was able to tell him clearly what I needed done. He said bring it in, he'd do it for me on the spot. I really appreciate the great sharing of knowledge and experience that occurred in this thread to help those of us willing to fix it so we can keep it, and for those that thought it better to pass for now. Excellent stuff guys, thank you. It's why I still come to ECF after all these years.

 

[fredrikstad]

They are to fast. I ordered it, less than an hour ago. And opened my mail no. They have shipped it already Then I have to send it back. The shipping confirmation arrived in my mailbox even before the order confirmation, and I canceled the order about ten minutes after I ordered it. Now, normally I would have been pleased with that fast handling, but this seams a bit odd to me. Shipped a few minutes after my order, and have not received any confirmation on my cansel.

"Thank you for your order from Sweet-Vapes, LLC.
Once your package ships we will send an email with a link to track your order.
If you have any questions about your order please contact us at customerservice@sweet-vapes.com or call us at (920) 783-6688 Monday - Friday, 10am - 6pm CST.

Your order confirmation is below. Thank you again for your business.

Your Order #100025496 (placed on February 25, 2015 1:10:58 PM CST)"

And at I:32 I posted here that I canceled the order , so it took them under 22 minutes to ship it, But by now, I have not received any confirmation on my cancel. Dam I am sad now. That was about the last money left, I should not have done it. Just because their site stated only two left,and I thought it was a steal. And thought that was the only dna 40 device I could afford.

The funny thing is, I placed a second order of nickel coils, a few minutes before my cancel, and
"Your Order #100025500 (placed on February 25, 2015 1:22:09 PM CST)" this has not been shipped yet, at least I have not received any confirmation or tracking order for that.

Now I have to go to sleep. Talk to you wonderful guys tomorrow

 

[fredrikstad]

I want to thank everyone who contributed to this thread. I like the box, and even with an SX Mini M preordered it's a keeper for me. I just like this box and want to hang on to it as my commuting device.

I've never soldered anything in my life, but with the easy to follow diagrams and pictures posted here I spoke to a guy at a local electronics shop and was able to tell him clearly what I needed done. He said bring it in, he'd do it for me on the spot. I really appreciate the great sharing of knowledge and experience that occurred in this thread to help those of us willing to fix it so we can keep it, and for those that thought it better to pass for now. Excellent stuff guys, thank you. It's why I still come to ECF after all these years.

You have managed to get it done? I have to read this thread real close, so maybe I ca get someone to fix this for me to. Would it work with an ordinary phone repairer or something?

Is there anyone who can post the issue, and an easy to understand solution? So a non vaper get it? A picture or something I can show to a cellphone or a pc repairer who doe`s not have a clue about vaping more than likely? Yes, I have thank you all very much for this thread. If I hadn't read further, I would never had a clue about this issue, and sure as h would have blamed any problem on user error.
Thank you all a lot

 

[Croak]

You have managed to get it done? I have to read this thread real close, so maybe I ca get someone to fix this for me to. Would it work with an ordinary phone repairer or something?

Is there anyone who can post the issue, and an easy to understand solution? So a non vaper get it? A picture or something I can show to a cellphone or a pc repairer who doe`s not have a clue about vaping more than likely? Yes, I have thank you all very much for this thread. If I hadn't read further, I would never had a clue about this issue, and sure as h would have blamed any problem on user error.
Thank you all a lot

Dude, it's one wire to solder, it's not rocket surgery. Any repair shop could do it if you provided them one of the pictures or diagrams from this thread, and would take almost no time to actually do, you'd spend more time plugging in the soldering gun and waiting for the tip to heat up than the actual soldering.

 

[fredrikstad]

well vapetriad is in canada and i dont really want to pay customs etc, so anyone else doing this fix i could send my unit to?

Yes I would be very interessed in that too. Hopefully someone in europe? I will pay for shipping off course, but I can`t unfortunately offer a very lucrative salary

 

[Eric Auer]

Dude, it's one wire to solder, it's not rocket surgery. Any repair shop could do it if you provided them one of the pictures or diagrams from this thread, and would take almost no time to actually do, you'd spend more time plugging in the soldering gun and waiting for the tip to heat up than the actual soldering.

I'd like to add to this that anyone can learn to solder, equipment is very affordable and you can practice on the cheap too.

It is an easy skill to learn and very useful to have.

Eric

 

[fredrikstad]

I have just been asked by Vapegeek if I could post this pic up of their fix.The unit now works as by Evolv specs.The unit was also tested and the battery drop has been measured under load as well, they are now spot on.

That is the hole fix? Solder a wire from the screw to the board? And if I show that to an electrician,this and the former black picture from a couple of post ago, the electrician will likely understand what to do?

Now, what is 20 and 22 gauge i metric measure?

 

[Vapenstein]

better yet just rewire the battery grnd to -B- on the board

 

[fredrikstad]

Dude, it's one wire to solder, it's not rocket surgery. Any repair shop could do it if you provided them one of the pictures or diagrams from this thread, and would take almost no time to actually do, you'd spend more time plugging in the soldering gun and waiting for the tip to heat up than the actual soldering.

Thank you for that, it calms me down a bit. I know, it`s not the end off the world, but it should not have to be this way. Lessons learned I hope ,never buy a first run device. That is a common virus who most run among vapers

Sorry Vapenstein, for all my replies in your thread, but you mean a wire direct from the minus pool on the battery to the b point of the board? I need tee spoons when it`s not on my first language here, sorry
If I got that right, then there is hope for an electrician to get it too.

Now I need to go to bed. Talking to all you wonderful people tomorrow. Thanks a lot

 

[realbriguy]

Vape Triad's just posted a better photo of their fix, which runs the wire direct from the battery negative to the board.

All in all, it's a relatively easy fix to perform. As long as you have access to some wire, a soldering station and some solder, it's a pretty easy fix.

They are to fast. I ordered it, less than an hour ago. And opened my mail no. They have shipped it already Then I have to send it back. The shipping confirmation arrived in my mailbox even before the order confirmation, and I canceled the order about ten minutes after I ordered it. Now, normally I would have been pleased with that fast handling, but this seams a bit odd to me. Shipped a few minutes after my order, and have not received any confirmation on my cansel.

"Thank you for your order from Sweet-Vapes, LLC.
Once your package ships we will send an email with a link to track your order.
If you have any questions about your order please contact us at customerservice@sweet-vapes.com or call us at (920) 783-6688 Monday - Friday, 10am - 6pm CST.

Your order confirmation is below. Thank you again for your business.

Your Order #100025496 (placed on February 25, 2015 1:10:58 PM CST)"

And at I:32 I posted here that I canceled the order , so it took them under 22 minutes to ship it, But by now, I have not received any confirmation on my cancel. Dam I am sad now. That was about the last money left, I should not have done it. Just because their site stated only two left,and I thought it was a steal. And thought that was the only dna 40 device I could afford.

The funny thing is, I placed a second order of nickel coils, a few minutes before my cancel, and
"Your Order #100025500 (placed on February 25, 2015 1:22:09 PM CST)" this has not been shipped yet, at least I have not received any confirmation or tracking order for that.

Now I have to go to sleep. Talk to you wonderful guys tomorrow

Why not try giving the fix a go? It's not that difficult, especially if you just run a bridge from the lower screw to the board. It's not as neat of a solution, but it should be just as effective.

At the price Sweet Vapes is selling it at, it's a steal, and worth the effort to get the fix done for a fairly solid device with DNA40 performance.

 

[scaredmice]

so the tl;dr version is that, if nothing else, soldering the battery ground to the board is a good idea?

As several members have told us later, it is a good idea, provided it is properly done. From an electrical stand point, it is the same connecting the B- soldering point of the board to the battery using the case as conductor (like in cars, grounding all negatives), with that lower screw fixed over the case, or directly connecting the B- soldering point of the board and the negative terminal of the battery. If both are well done, I would prefer the screw solution, to avoid any tainting of those thin plates that act as battery terminals, but that would relay on a proper electrical connection on that screw (soldered better than just mechanically driven).

I would dare to reassert myself on the idea that, with proper connection, a well soldered one, avoiding the so-call 'cold-soldering' of the tin drops, and forcefully alloying copper and tin each other on the soldering points, plus a really good dent, as bite, of the threads of those screws over the aluminium case, it is not so critical the existence of a direct connection between B- point and the negative battery terminal. Evolv states in all their documents that GND and B- are internally connected through the board. What it is not said is how is that internal connection: Is it as good as a thick wire, let's say, 22 AWG? If it is, it's not important the bridge between B- and battery, the important thing is than in the intermediate connections (the screws) nothing adds resistance, or not more than an equivalent 22 AWG (diameter of 0,6 - 0,7 millimeters here in Europe....)

If not, as the answer from Evolv's might suggest, then the bridge could matters. And in any case, if it is well done, it cannot hurt......

My opinion is that you can enforce a decent connection with soldering tin and a snug screw down on the two screws put to ground, and add a 22AWG wire, even without insulation, as somebody has done it (it is grounding), if it cannot touch anything 'not grounded', as an electrical bridge between the lower screw and the B- soldering point, effectively putting all three (B-, screw and battery negative terminal) at the same potential, as ground. In that way you cannot risk a thermal break of the always fragile battery terminals.

 

[MidwestGuy]

So... I think the next major issue for this device is the "will-fail-eventually" 510 connection... Take a look at the 510 from inside the case when you screw an atomizer on, specifically one with a slotted positive pin at the end (like a Lemo).

In addition this main issue, there may be another: When I remove a Lemo, I have copper shavings all over the bottom of it. Are there different softnesses of copper? I'm not tightening this thing down really tight (not that it would matter, again, see video) ... but mostly, the 510 is spinning WITH the atomizer. I typically have enough copper shavings after unscrewing my Lemos that I need to clean them/blow them off. Unsettling in the best case...

Anyway ... 510 replacement anyone? Would a Fat Daddy 510 fit in here and work OK?

This device is turning in to one of those semi-professional R/C cars you buy... they "say" they're ready to run (RTR), but still need quite a bit of work to get up and going. Not a bad thing in the R/C world as it forces you to learn some important and vital specifics about the vehicle. In the vaping world ... well, I guess it depends on your expectations from the manufacturer. Luckily in this case, I I wasn't expecting much so I'm not terribly upset, but definitely something worth discussing. The thing looks so nice on the outside ... if it weren't for the evil, or soon-to-be evil lurking within. In other words: I would never travel long distances with this mod unless I had a backup with me. I was hoping I wouldn't have to say that about this mod.