Head Democrat Orders FDA Director to Ban E-cigs or Resign

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bnrkwest

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IF this story is accurate, fear not. The Administration is as contrary as can be. So the most likely reaction would be to leave the vaping industry completely unregulated and perhaps offer subsidies to American manufacturers. Problem solved...
Do we have any US vape manufacturers?
 
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Rossum

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Do we have any US vape manufacturers?
I think Evolv still makes all their boards here, but I can't think of anyone who makes any complete mods or even atties here at this anymore; certainly not anyone who makes any real volume.
 

bnrkwest

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I think Evolv still makes all their boards here, but I can't think of anyone who makes any complete mods or even atties here at this anymore; certainly not anyone who makes any real volume.
Correct, you can get the boards, just nothing assembled. I didn't realize Evolv was in Hudson, OH, charming little town I used to drive thru often years ago.
 

DaveP

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The vaping community has done a good job in educating vapers about what not to include in DIY juices. Oils in vape juice are a no-no for the same reason that oily nose drops were removed from the market decades ago in favor of water based drops that didn't cause lung issues.

Why You Should Keep Vicks Out Of Your Nose
https://www.peoplespharmacy.com/articles/why-you-should-keep-vicks-out/
 

Eskie

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I think Evolv still makes all their boards here, but I can't think of anyone who makes any complete mods or even atties here at this anymore; certainly not anyone who makes any real volume.

There are small mech and atty makers still in operation in the US. Regulated mods can be obtained but typically on a custom order basis or from a handful of stock on hand. Some are only on FB. But all are small as the price points are high, placing them but of the mass consumer market, without the ability to produce in large quantity.

As with essentially all consumer electronics products and clothing and well, almost everything else, the average buyer simply does not have access to the funds needed for US made bespoke products, or even US made items from larger manufacturers. There is also no longer an industrial base to even produce them as the factories don't exist and capital isn't available to build them even if you wanted to, as capital sources won't invest in them knowing they'll lose going up against inexpensive products. Tariffs won't fix that as they'd need to be 100% or more to bring equity to the market, but retailers would collapse as few consumers could afford the products. Consumers will raise hell because they can't afford to buy anything. Can you picture Walmart or Target selling only US made products?

Overseas manufacturing and supply chains are simply too affordable and efficient for companies to not take advantage of, and the US consumer does not have the funds to buy made in the US even if they had to.
 

RoseB

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The vaping community has done a good job in educating vapers about what not to include in DIY juices. Oils in vape juice are a no-no for the same reason that oily nose drops were removed from the market decades ago in favor of water based drops that didn't cause lung issues.

Why You Should Keep Vicks Out Of Your Nose
https://www.peoplespharmacy.com/articles/why-you-should-keep-vicks-out/

Nice PSA. About seven years ago, I started making e liquid. A lot of the info I needed came from this forum. A few posts lead me into researching lipid pneumonia. Anyone making any type of vape liquids, needs to seriously research the subject. That being said, black market dealers mostly don't give a crap.
 

Horselady154

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There are small mech and atty makers still in operation in the US. Regulated mods can be obtained but typically on a custom order basis or from a handful of stock on hand. Some are only on FB. But all are small as the price points are high, placing them but of the mass consumer market, without the ability to produce in large quantity.

As with essentially all consumer electronics products and clothing and well, almost everything else, the average buyer simply does not have access to the funds needed for US made bespoke products, or even US made items from larger manufacturers. There is also no longer an industrial base to even produce them as the factories don't exist and capital isn't available to build them even if you wanted to, as capital sources won't invest in them knowing they'll lose going up against inexpensive products. Tariffs won't fix that as they'd need to be 100% or more to bring equity to the market, but retailers would collapse as few consumers could afford the products. Consumers will raise hell because they can't afford to buy anything. Can you picture Walmart or Target selling only US made products?

Overseas manufacturing and supply chains are simply too affordable and efficient for companies to not take advantage of, and the US consumer does not have the funds to buy made in the US even if they had to.
We sure wouldn't be able to buy all the cheap chinese crap we have gotten accustomed to buying, that breaks 5 minutes after we buy it. That's for sure. In a lot of instances, I don't know that that would be a bad thing, for me at least. WalMart exists to sell cheap chinese crap, so no, I can't imagine them selling only US made products. They would likely dry up and blow away. Again, to me, not a bad thing. :thumb:
 

Eskie

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We sure wouldn't be able to buy all the cheap chinese crap we have gotten accustomed to buying, that breaks 5 minutes after we buy it. That's for sure. In a lot of instances, I don't know that that would be a bad thing, for me at least. WalMart exists to sell cheap chinese crap, so no, I can't imagine them selling only US made products. They would likely dry up and blow away. Again, to me, not a bad thing. :thumb:

It depends on your financial circumstances.Only 47% have sufficient funds which folks are financially recommended to have for, well, emergencies like job loss or illness, namely 3 months of cash or cash equivalent on hand. Folks are living in rental residences at rates not seen since the 60's with the decline in home ownership. And in large cities it's way higher. Let's face it, the one in three Americans are a few paychecks away from being homeless without support from family and friends. So take away Walmart, Target, Costco, and all the other big box retailers, and a large chunk of Americans are screwed. Then there are construction materials and tools which if only US made would significantly raise the cost of housing beyond affordability for a good chunk of this country.

That Chinese crap allows lots of Americans to have a standard of living they'd otherwise be very far from. Even if, and as, Chinese goods rise in price due to a growing middle class and fewer low paid factory workers, which is already happening, the manufacturing for the low end market products simply moves to Vietnam, India, Bangladesh, and Indonesia. It's why the Chinese are so hot to expand their industrial base into higher tech home grown products with higher value and greater margins. They know that business is coming to an end and are preparing for the transition now.

It's the basis of their Made in China 2025 plan, which is designed to move them out of the low cost market and into high tech, essentially in competition with the very industries the US still has, like wide body commercial jets as one example. Boeing is one of the larges exporter of US built industrial products and China is looking to compete. Same on advanced electronics and technologies like 5G communications.
 

Rossum

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We sure wouldn't be able to buy all the cheap chinese crap we have gotten accustomed to buying, that breaks 5 minutes after we buy it. That's for sure. In a lot of instances, I don't know that that would be a bad thing, for me at least. WalMart exists to sell cheap chinese crap, so no, I can't imagine them selling only US made products. They would likely dry up and blow away. Again, to me, not a bad thing. :thumb:
This. When I was younger, most of the stuff we bought was made to last a long time, and when it eventually broke, we would at least try to fix it instead of simply throwing it out and buying a new one.

Thanks to ECF, I knew from the first week I was vaping that the hammer was likely to drop on us sooner or later and I went out of my way to purchase quality vape gear that is unlikely to break and can be fixed if it does. Yeah, that gear was expensive, but it was a one-time cost; an "investment" in peace-of-mind.
 

Rossum

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That Chinese crap allows lots of Americans to have a standard of living they'd otherwise be very far from.
Does it? Or is it like running on a treadmill; buy it over and over again, because it's junk that doesn't last and can't be fixed when it breaks?
 

Eskie

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Does it? Or is it like running on a treadmill; buy it over and over again, because it's junk that doesn't last and can't be fixed when it breaks?

Sure it does. You can buy a window air conditioner for $99. You know it won't last more than a few years even when cared for by moving it inside in the winter (not everyone does, especially in apartments), versus $600 for a high quality AC unit that may last far longer, but you can't come up with the $600 right now but you can pay $99. And not everyone is willing to save for 6 months to get it when it's summer and hot as hell right now. Besides, even the expensive ones are made overseas anyway, just hopefully to higher standards.

Are people prepared to go without a TV? All those LCD panels are made in South Korea. Even if imported and assembled into the final product in the US, can the average person justify an extra $1,000 on the price tag, or will they just buy the Samsung that contains the same screen for far less? Give up their smartphones? Spend months saving up to buy little Johnny a US made pair of winter boots, especially as Johnny will outgrow the boots in a year?

Even if those financial issues didn't exist, as I said we still don't have the industrial base to make those things in the US anymore, and it's too expensive to try and rebuild them to compete against overseas products. Unless you want to go all isolationist and ban imports, but then the US economy collapses as in retaliation no one will import US made goods. This is the world as it exists. The ship sailed decades ago on those products and it's not coming back.
 

CMD-Ky

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Answer: Credit, the magic answer to every economic question that families now have. We are a nation of infants. If you don't have it but you want it, why wait? There is an old song, never more true than today: Dollar Down and a Dollar a Week.


Are people prepared to go without a TV? All those LCD panels are made in South Korea. Even if imported and assembled into the final product in the US, can the average person justify an extra $1,000 on the price tag, or will they just buy the Samsung that contains the same screen for far less? Give up their smartphones? Spend months saving up to buy little Johnny a US made pair of winter boots, especially as Johnny will outgrow the boots in a year?
 

Rossum

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From cheap-junk --> OK for it's useful life --> over-engineered and will be an antique/obsolete.
Yep, all my vape gear is already "obsolete" by current standards. But I expect to use it for the rest of my life, so I really don't care that it's not the latest & greatest. It's kept me from smoking. That's all that matters.
 

Horselady154

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Ask him how well his 1960's well-built fixable TV works in the DTV era? :p

It's a spectrum. From cheap-junk --> OK for it's useful life --> over-engineered and will be an antique/obsolete.
You know, there are ways to design for those things whose technology changes rapidly. Take computers. Some people prefer to buy computers that they will never upgrade, or is very difficult to do so; others buy good cases that are expandable, and replace the components, when warranted.

Although, I agree, that after our government used tax dollars to build roads, schools and airports in foreign countries, guaranteed select companies' investments who moved their manufacturing overseas and gave them tax breaks for doing so, a great deal of our once competitive advantage has been sent sailing.

For me, in a whole lot of cases, I'd rather do without and save up for something that will last a long time. Heck, I come from a family where the shovels, hoes, etc., were passed down from my grandfather to my father and then to us. We were raised cleaning them after they were used, my brother would sharpen them when needed and we would oil them after every use. When the wood on the handles had seen its better day, we replaced the handles. Those same implements are today better than anything any of my friends have. They are sharper, stronger and do their job better than anything they have; even right out of the store.
 

CMD-Ky

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Although, I agree, that after our government used tax dollars to build roads, schools and airports in foreign countries, guaranteed select companies' investments who moved their manufacturing overseas and gave them tax breaks for doing so, a great deal of our once competitive advantage has been sent sailing.

Are you implying that our politicians may have sold out the citizenry perhaps for private profit? :shock::shock:
 
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zoiDman

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Are you implying that our politicians may have sold out the citizenry perhaps for private profit? :shock::shock:

Captain20Obvious20HotelsCom1.jpg
 
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