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AndriaD

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I've tried to contact the online dealer to see if I can change to 50/50. I'm wary about PG, but to my knowledge don't have allergy issues. Would still like to stay with organics though...aside from the PG. The chemical components are half the reason I'm trying to get off analogs. I had a chemist recently tell me that some of the "secret" formulas people guard so heavily have as many harmful chems or more than analogs. He's a wholesale distributor, so I'm guessing he knows his customers.

That's not correct; cigarette smoke can contain 4,000 toxins; with ejuice, there *may* be one or two that *might* be somewhat problematic, but rest assured, there is NOTHING!!!!!!!!! in ejuice or vapor that is anywhere near as bad as what's in cigarettes and their smoke.

Andria
 

Ohm Gnome

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Andria can correct me if I'm wrong, Jason, but if she means what I think she does, and since it's an issue I have as well, she is not saying that VG does any damage to your lungs. What she is saying is that high VG liquids tend to cause some people problems with excess phlegm being produced. I have the same issue, as I said. My lungs start to feel uncomfortably "full" and I tend to produce a lot of phlegm in the back of my throat...enough to cough up as your standard "loogie". Not particularly pleasant...but not medically dangerous either.
That may be but as ambassadors of the movement we should choose words carefully when speaking to new or non vapers. Some people cannot handle pg so I'd say some people may have allergies to it. Some people may be sensitive to vg I think is a good way to put it. I didn't have a problem with the message. I didn't like the way it was being delivered. Some people can't handle higher wattage or warmer vapes but I believe how we say things matter. I believe how we act matters. People notice our behavior more. If we vape in public it's perceived differently. Terminology is perceived differently
 

amoret

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Welcome from another old hippie. Great equipment choices. Vaperite also has organic and natural liquids, and you can choose your pc/vg ratios as well as nicotine strengths. I make my own now, but as another Marlboro Menhol user I very much enjoyed their Burley Menthol Tobacco flavor.

No vaping liquid will actually taste like smoking, though, but I find that good. You also may want to try some different flavor groups, you may be surprised at what you end up liking. But don't stock up on large amounts of any one liquid until you're sure you really like it.

The only thing I can possibly think that your friend could be referring to would be diacetyl and its relatives, which are controversial. They are most likely to be in some (but not all) buttery and creamy flavors. But even there, the levels are lower than you get in tobacco smoke.
 

Baditude

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I agree with everything that amoret said above. :thumb:

VapeRite makes great flavors that are customizable for pg/vg ratios. Many are all organic, all natural flavoring. I've only used their coffee flavors though. Love their Double Espresso and Kona Cream Coffee.

Diacetyl has been noted to have caused "popcorn lung" when inhaled, and the vast majority of manufacturers have discontinued its use as a flavoring agent.

No ecigarette flavor will taste like a real cigarette, and I also agree that this is a good thing. Once your taste buds have healed from not smoking, you'll discover that tobacco products taste like an ash tray. :eek:

I don't know if "all natural, all organic" flavorings are healthier than artificial flavorings, but in my experience they "taste better".
 
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salemgold

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Welcome to ECF. I am curious as to why you would think that organic flavors may be better for vaping? I am of the mindset that synthetic are more stable and may end up being the best choice for me.

How Natural is “Natural Flavoring”?

“Artificial flavorings are simpler in composition and potentially safer because only safety-tested components are utilized. Another difference between natural and artificial flavorings is cost. The search for "natural" sources of chemicals often requires that a manufacturer go to great lengths to obtain a given chemical…. Furthermore, the process is costly. This pure natural chemical is identical to the version made in an organic chemist’s laboratory, yet it is much more expensive than the synthetic alternative. Consumers pay a lot for natural flavorings. But these are in fact no better in quality, nor are they safer, than their cost-effective artificial counterparts.”

Just something to think about. Good luck to you.
 

seapeach

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Welcome from another old hippie. Great equipment choices. Vaperite also has organic and natural liquids, and you can choose your pc/vg ratios as well as nicotine strengths. I make my own now, but as another Marlboro Menhol user I very much enjoyed their Burley Menthol Tobacco flavor.

No vaping liquid will actually taste like smoking, though, but I find that good. You also may want to try some different flavor groups, you may be surprised at what you end up liking. But don't stock up on large amounts of any one liquid until you're sure you really like it.

The only thing I can possibly think that your friend could be referring to would be diacetyl and its relatives, which are controversial. They are most likely to be in some (but not all) buttery and creamy flavors. But even there, the levels are lower than you get in tobacco smoke.
Ha! Nice to know I'm doing something right. Will check out what Vaporite has to offer. I haven't even gotten started good and already I feel like a kid in a candy store. :)
 

seapeach

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Welcome to ECF. I am curious as to why you would think that organic flavors may be better for vaping? I am of the mindset that synthetic are more stable and may end up being the best choice for me.

How Natural is “Natural Flavoring”?

“Artificial flavorings are simpler in composition and potentially safer because only safety-tested components are utilized. Another difference between natural and artificial flavorings is cost. The search for "natural" sources of chemicals often requires that a manufacturer go to great lengths to obtain a given chemical…. Furthermore, the process is costly. This pure natural chemical is identical to the version made in an organic chemist’s laboratory, yet it is much more expensive than the synthetic alternative. Consumers pay a lot for natural flavorings. But these are in fact no better in quality, nor are they safer, than their cost-effective artificial counterparts.”

"But these are in fact no better in quality, nor are they safer, than their cost-effective artificial counterparts.” I've heard that, too. I'm not terribly concerned with safety, as I realize vaping HAS to be safer than smoking. Taste may have something to do with my decision to try organics first. In chemistry classes I could always identify synthetic esters over natural extracts and essential oils, and preferred the smells and tastes of the natural extracts and oils. I may be wrong, because it's lungs not GI tract, but I'm thinking of vaping solutions like I would food or beverage. Perhaps it's the holistic farm girl in me.
 

seapeach

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At some point, I guess I'll figure out how to correctly reply in a forum. :blush: "But these are in fact no better in quality, nor are they safer, than their cost-effective artificial counterparts.” I've heard that, too. I'm not terribly concerned with safety, as I realize vaping HAS to be safer than smoking. Taste may have something to do with my decision to try organics first. In chemistry classes I could always identify synthetic esters over natural extracts and essential oils, and preferred the smells and tastes of the natural extracts and oils. I may be wrong, because it's lungs not GI tract, but I'm thinking of vaping solutions like I would food or beverage. Perhaps it's the holistic farm girl in me.
 

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Ohm Gnome

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At some point, I guess I'll figure out how to correctly reply in a forum. :blush: "But these are in fact no better in quality, nor are they safer, than their cost-effective artificial counterparts.” I've heard that, too. I'm not terribly concerned with safety, as I realize vaping HAS to be safer than smoking. Taste may have something to do with my decision to try organics first. In chemistry classes I could always identify synthetic esters over natural extracts and essential oils, and preferred the smells and tastes of the natural extracts and oils. I may be wrong, because it's lungs not GI tract, but I'm thinking of vaping solutions like I would food or beverage. Perhaps it's the holistic farm girl in me.
I just did the same thing. I don't know why it posted that way lol. I'm not a technology guy. I'm more of a lets go camping kind of person. Nature is my home
 
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AndriaD

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Welcome to ECF. I am curious as to why you would think that organic flavors may be better for vaping? I am of the mindset that synthetic are more stable and may end up being the best choice for me.

How Natural is “Natural Flavoring”?

“Artificial flavorings are simpler in composition and potentially safer because only safety-tested components are utilized. Another difference between natural and artificial flavorings is cost. The search for "natural" sources of chemicals often requires that a manufacturer go to great lengths to obtain a given chemical…. Furthermore, the process is costly. This pure natural chemical is identical to the version made in an organic chemist’s laboratory, yet it is much more expensive than the synthetic alternative. Consumers pay a lot for natural flavorings. But these are in fact no better in quality, nor are they safer, than their cost-effective artificial counterparts.”

Just something to think about. Good luck to you.

I agree; and what I have found, too, is that organic flavorings also contain a lot of "extra" stuff, which ends up turning into black gunk on coils, because it can't be vaporized -- this doesn't happen with the synthetic, pure flavors. There's a whole world of difference between eating something, and vaporizing the flavor of it -- so different standards need to apply. For eating, I definitely prefer "organic" to synthetic, but organic doesn't vaporize very well.

Andria
 

gandymarsh

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Welcome to ECF from another aging hippie!

Looks like you picked some good equipment.

I vape high VG (80%) mostly because I have a few issues with PG. I do get some breathing problems and phlegm but it doesn't bother me much. At least I don't cough uncontrollably and painfully like I did when I was smoking.

IMO vaping is much safer than smoking. I feel much better now and I'm not aging as rapidly.
 

seapeach

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Welcome to ECF from another aging hippie!

Looks like you picked some good equipment.

I vape high VG (80%) mostly because I have a few issues with PG. I do get some breathing problems and phlegm but it doesn't bother me much. At least I don't cough uncontrollably and painfully like I did when I was smoking.

IMO vaping is much safer than smoking. I feel much better now and I'm not aging as rapidly.
Hi there and thanks for the welcome. I just changed from 100% to 50/50 on my juice order. Primarily because I don't know what the heck I'm doing. But it's all good. Can't wait to get started. I've learned so much from reading this forum and watching You Tube. Seems a major step up from the old e-cigs I bought from the mall kiosk years and years ago. I'm not pressuring myself to lay down the smokes, but I've got a good feeling about that as a possibilty now.
 
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AndriaD

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Hi there and thanks for the welcome. I just changed from 100% to 50/50 on my juice order. Primarily because I don't know what the heck I'm doing. But it's all good. Can't wait to get started. I've learned so much from reading this forum and watching You Tube. Seems a major step up from the old e-cigs I bought from the mall kiosk years and years ago. I'm not pressuring myself to lay down the smokes, but I've got a good feeling about that as a possibilty now.

50/50 is a good place to start, so you can determine, as you vape, whether it's more throat-irritating or chest-bothering; if neither, then you get the benefit of just staying at 50/50.

PG is really nothing to worry about, *unless* one has a true allergy to it (which is rather rare, that stuff is EVERYWHERE). If you've ever been inside a hospital, or were born in one, you've already breathed PG; they use it in the ventilation systems for its anti-microbial properties (since sometime in the 1940s!). Some people are more sensitive to its irritation potential, I've experienced it myself when I vaped 90% PG for a week, and then the other side, some folks find that VG bothers their chest/breathing, from a little to a lot -- you can't really know how you'll react to it, until you actually vape for a while.

The "no pressure" about quitting is really the best thing, because one of the coolest things about e-cigs is how once we start vaping, providing we have a flavor we like and equipment that works tolerably well, cigarettes just start tasting and smelling like... burnt stinking weeds. :D There may be some smoking-cessation issues along the way, no lie, but the initial uptake of vaping nearly always results in a fast and drastic reduction of smoking -- you can either stay there, as a dual user/occasional smoker, or go ahead and quit -- it becomes a choice rather than a health ultimatum or crisis. :thumb:

Andria
 

Ohm Gnome

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50/50 is a good place to start, so you can determine, as you vape, whether it's more throat-irritating or chest-bothering; if neither, then you get the benefit of just staying at 50/50.

PG is really nothing to worry about, *unless* one has a true allergy to it (which is rather rare, that stuff is EVERYWHERE). If you've ever been inside a hospital, or were born in one, you've already breathed PG; they use it in the ventilation systems for its anti-microbial properties (since sometime in the 1940s!). Some people are more sensitive to its irritation potential, I've experienced it myself when I vaped 90% PG for a week, and then the other side, some folks find that VG bothers their chest/breathing, from a little to a lot -- you can't really know how you'll react to it, until you actually vape for a while.

The "no pressure" about quitting is really the best thing, because one of the coolest things about e-cigs is how once we start vaping, providing we have a flavor we like and equipment that works tolerably well, cigarettes just start tasting and smelling like... burnt stinking weeds. :D There may be some smoking-cessation issues along the way, no lie, but the initial uptake of vaping nearly always results in a fast and drastic reduction of smoking -- you can either stay there, as a dual user/occasional smoker, or go ahead and quit -- it becomes a choice rather than a health ultimatum or crisis. :thumb:

Andria
That was a perfect statement about vaping.
 
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Thrasher

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I wouldnt be concerned with pg, it's interaction with humans has been documented since the 40's with very few , if any, issues beyound the occasional pg allergy, it is in many foods you eat, shampoos and soaps, and even in liquid medicine like injectable solutions and iv's. In fact there are probably not to many things as well studied as pg in the human body. As it turns out the stuff is extremely harmless and is even a minor antibacterial agent.

Vg on the other hand does not have much research into inhalation and its effects.


Welcome to the forums, the whole organic thing hasnt proven to be a real benefit yet as no one knows if it makes a difference when its vaporized.



To the other posts: hate to break it to you but a few years of 100's of posts show vg certainly does gunk up coils faster.sweet flavorings make it even worse. Vg is a pure sugar that will caramelize almost instantly it is even used as a non caloric sweetener for flavoring foods without addding calories.
Coils lasting weeks with high pg need to be cleaned in days when i go high vg.

I too become very congested on high vg, clears up overnight but feels like im drowning almost after heavy chain vaping. I use 70%pg in my DIY
 
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seapeach

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I wouldnt be concerned with pg, it's interaction with humans has been documented since the 40's with very few , if any, issues beyound the occasional pg allergy, it is in many foods you eat, shampoos and soaps, and even in liquid medicine like injectable solutions and iv's. In fact there are probably not to many things as well studied as pg in the human body. As it turns out the stuff is extremely harmless and is even a minor antibacterial agent.

Vg on the other hand does not have much research into inhalation and its effects.


Welcome to the forums, the whole organic thing hasnt proven to be a real benefit yet as no one knows if it makes a difference when its vaporized.



To the other posts: hate to break it to you but a few years of 100's of posts show vg certainly does gunk up coils faster.sweet flavorings make it even worse. Vg is a pure sugar that will caramelize almost instantly it is even used as a non caloric sweetener for flavoring foods without addding calories.
Coils lasting weeks with high pg need to be cleaned in days when i go high vg.

I too become very congested on high vg, clears up overnight but feels like im drowning almost after heavy chain vaping. I use 70%pg in my DIY
I'm curious to what "pure sugar" means to the diabetic. I changed my order from 100% VG to 50/50. Not sure which way I'll lean now. I guess time will tell, huh?
 
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