Yea. that seem so fishy to me. Whats next, High blood pressure, diabetes,etc? I have had to have the phy exam when hired, but that was after the fact. It was for insurence? I assume?
Help! Need a new job. Yikes, nic test!
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Including vaping? I knew about the smoking because I was directed off-property when a security dude saw me smoking outside the Emergency Room. But vaping??? Oh, man, one more reason to avoid being in the hospital.
It's not, and there have been several court cases to demonstrate it. Some states have made these practices illegal, but each state sets its own rules for how employers can set conditions for hiring. I know a woman who was fired for having the wrong candidate's bumper sticker affixed to her car. She sued and lost. I know another guy who had the other candidate's materials on his desk and was reprimanded for it.
If I, as an employer, have a certain set of standards for the kind of employees I want to hire, then in most states I'm free to enforce my policy at will. They don't hire men or ugly women as servers at Hooters. Airlines can hire only slim, attractive flight attendants and trucking companies can hire only slim, fit and completely substance-free drivers.
That said, I'd sooner shovel manure in the hot sun for minimum wage before I work for any company with such draconian standards. That's why I'm self-employed now.
Hey I want to thank you guys for your help. I knew ECF people would know what to do. The other two threads are very helpful and the one thread is very similar. The person is also trying to get a job at a hospital. I haven’t heard where they test for nic other than hospitals. Yes, I whole heartily agree, it is ludicrous. Once I pass, and if I do, I can go back to my nic addiction. It would be nice to get rid of it but that didn’t work before (I had quit for two years at one point) so I am not hopeful. Apparently if I fail I can retest in 45 days. I will get more information on the test itself if I can. I have friends who work in the lab. You guys have brought up some good points and I would like to know the level at which they determine you are a smoker. I want to do some research to see if I can do a nic test myself to know. I have some time to work with and I am kind of freaking out at how irritable I will be vaping 0 nic. I have to get ahold of some 0 nic too. I will let you guys know what I find out about the test.
About the patch or anything else I was told “NO NICOTINE.” But with the veggies and second hand smoke there has to be a minimum, but IDK. Like I said I will try to find out. Holiday weekend here so it may take some time.
Of course they test for drugs and that will be muddled with my legal scripts. Hmm, that is acceptable, lol. While working there you submit to random drug and alcohol tests, but the nic test is only at hire.
I have heard of some employers checking your credit score. IDK, I guess they want employees that pay their bills and don’t get in financial entanglement. Thanks they will not be checking mine I have no to bad credit, lol.
BTW, In my current job working at the airport I had to have a squeaky clean driving and criminal record. Especially for the customs seal I have to work international flights. I had to get court records to prove charges against me were dropped or reduced, teehee.
Yeah I can agree with the comment of what it may possibly come to one day in the future. I can see branding as a testing loophole you have to jump through. Do you drink/eat our or the competitors products?
About the patch or anything else I was told “NO NICOTINE.” But with the veggies and second hand smoke there has to be a minimum, but IDK. Like I said I will try to find out. Holiday weekend here so it may take some time.
Of course they test for drugs and that will be muddled with my legal scripts. Hmm, that is acceptable, lol. While working there you submit to random drug and alcohol tests, but the nic test is only at hire.
I have heard of some employers checking your credit score. IDK, I guess they want employees that pay their bills and don’t get in financial entanglement. Thanks they will not be checking mine I have no to bad credit, lol.
BTW, In my current job working at the airport I had to have a squeaky clean driving and criminal record. Especially for the customs seal I have to work international flights. I had to get court records to prove charges against me were dropped or reduced, teehee.
Yeah I can agree with the comment of what it may possibly come to one day in the future. I can see branding as a testing loophole you have to jump through. Do you drink/eat our or the competitors products?
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The insurance guess is correct. Many hospitals, legal or not, have put this into effect to keep rates lower, and the insurance companies can make up any rules they want for the most part. And yes, there will be more to come.
So what about the employees who have been working there who are smokers? Did they get canned? When my hubby went in to have his aneurysm repaired and valve replaced (2009) smoking was still allowed on hospital grounds. There were many employees in scrubs in the smoking area puffing away. I assume there are many smokers in the medical field. That, I am sure, can be a very stressful profession. Now I drive past the hospital and see people in scrubs puffing away on the sidewalk. I understand medical professionals have images to uphold, especially pulmonologists and cardiologists, but what they do off the clock is not our business! Testing for nicotine, for me is unfair! What about gum, patches, and vaping? I understand disciplinary action if a medical professional in relevant fields walks into an exam room, or office reeking of cigarette smoke before telling a patient to stop smoking!
I think they should be able to say "Your tests came up positive for nicotine. You tell us you are a nonsmoker and are on NRT. We will take your word for that, but consider yourself on a probation. If you enter these premises at anytime showing any evidence of tobacco use, we will have to proceed with disciplinary action."
I think they should be able to say "Your tests came up positive for nicotine. You tell us you are a nonsmoker and are on NRT. We will take your word for that, but consider yourself on a probation. If you enter these premises at anytime showing any evidence of tobacco use, we will have to proceed with disciplinary action."
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Yep, and since the ban is for the grounds, that means you can't even vape outside. Ridiculous if you ask me.
Worzel, I think it looked a lot better for the hospitals when the smokers were tucked away in a back corner smoking than now having them all out by the main roads.
The hospital's courtyard was the smoking area. I smoked at the time, and was amused watching the staff motoring cigarettes like they were in front of a firing squad, but at the same time, can see the gripe of patients and visitors. But why should administrative staff, cleaning crew, cafeteria workers, and the poor souls working the morgue be penalized for smoking? The local hospital, where I used to live forced their staff to smoke in their cars, which were in a designated lot on grounds, but hidden from visitors. That seemed fair and a bit classier to me. When it comes to an exam for insurance reasons, isn't there a way of telling a present smoker from someone on NRT by XRay?
Anyways, if the testing rule sticks and the idea spreads like a plague, my best suggestion would be to start vaping 0mg juice with extra flavoring, drink lots of water and a pray before applying for a job in a hospital. Get an early jump on getting the nic out of the system.
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Fellow Detroiter here. This is mostly what I sent you in a PM, but if you check here first, I wanted you to see it.
First of all, as others have said, you are going to have to remain abstinent from nicotine products: any level of nic juice, WTA--which is majority nic--second hand smoke (in close quarters for extended periods), handling eliquid/ old attys with residual nic juice, etc., for as long as possible, or at least until after the test.
I have several one-step cotinine tests (a test for nicotine) that I can send you, or hand to you, so you can do a cursory check on your results. I made a post about mine: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...1319-vapers-newborns-infants.html#post9388208 If they take plasma samples, I wouldn't fret further for (as far as I know) the test wouldn't be any more sensitive than urine samples as urine and plasma have similar excretion rates of the metabolite of nicotine, cotinine.
A couple questions: When is your test? How long has it been since you vaped any nicotine?
Now, I can't say what this job is going to do, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's just a piss or blood (plasma) test--actually, I know the DMC does plasma tests for nicotine as they now have a "no nicotine" policy (notice the wording is not "no smoking") for new hires (previous employees were grandfathered in, which is why you'll still see employees of the hospital outside smoking). The reason I think it won't be hair is because a) hair testing, in this scenario, is usually for research purposes on usage/exposure--meaning, obviously, nicotine can get into hair through passive exposure and render test results with "false" positives, and b) hair tests are more costly and take more time. Actually, prolonged second-hand smoke can provide "false" positives in urine, but I imagine it would need to be considerably more exposure to second-hand smoke to produce those results than the case for hair.
Having said that, it could be a hair test but let's hope otherwise.
Just stay away from nic, and I mean even handling eliquid or old attys as nicotine can be absorbed through the skin--even if that's extreme, the goal is most important. As boring as it may sound, err, look, you could get away with just vaping straight VG or PG/VG--I've done it and it's really not half bad--but make sure to use new attys and clean your contacts (vaping residual nicotine juice on contacts or coils would not be total abstinence). Zero nic juice would be fine, and I know most vendors do their best for QC, but I've had mislabeled juices and/or wrong bottles sent to me and without me checking to make sure, I was either vaping the wrong juice or the wrong nic level--no need to risk it with such high stakes (IMO).
I think you should be safe after a week of abstinence (as long as the the test is piss or plasma), but the longer the better.
Here is a link to a free pubmed article about The use of the signs of nicotine in their hair as a tool for the assessment of exposure to tobacco smoke (You are going to have to set your screen to translate to English)
p.s. You may want to lay off cauliflower, eggplant, potatoes, and tomatoes as they all contain nicotine and could, themselves, render a "false" positive. I wonder if next they'll ban consumption of veggies???
The Nicotine Content of Common Vegetables (New England Journal of Medicine)
First of all, as others have said, you are going to have to remain abstinent from nicotine products: any level of nic juice, WTA--which is majority nic--second hand smoke (in close quarters for extended periods), handling eliquid/ old attys with residual nic juice, etc., for as long as possible, or at least until after the test.
I have several one-step cotinine tests (a test for nicotine) that I can send you, or hand to you, so you can do a cursory check on your results. I made a post about mine: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...1319-vapers-newborns-infants.html#post9388208 If they take plasma samples, I wouldn't fret further for (as far as I know) the test wouldn't be any more sensitive than urine samples as urine and plasma have similar excretion rates of the metabolite of nicotine, cotinine.
A couple questions: When is your test? How long has it been since you vaped any nicotine?
Now, I can't say what this job is going to do, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's just a piss or blood (plasma) test--actually, I know the DMC does plasma tests for nicotine as they now have a "no nicotine" policy (notice the wording is not "no smoking") for new hires (previous employees were grandfathered in, which is why you'll still see employees of the hospital outside smoking). The reason I think it won't be hair is because a) hair testing, in this scenario, is usually for research purposes on usage/exposure--meaning, obviously, nicotine can get into hair through passive exposure and render test results with "false" positives, and b) hair tests are more costly and take more time. Actually, prolonged second-hand smoke can provide "false" positives in urine, but I imagine it would need to be considerably more exposure to second-hand smoke to produce those results than the case for hair.
Having said that, it could be a hair test but let's hope otherwise.
Just stay away from nic, and I mean even handling eliquid or old attys as nicotine can be absorbed through the skin--even if that's extreme, the goal is most important. As boring as it may sound, err, look, you could get away with just vaping straight VG or PG/VG--I've done it and it's really not half bad--but make sure to use new attys and clean your contacts (vaping residual nicotine juice on contacts or coils would not be total abstinence). Zero nic juice would be fine, and I know most vendors do their best for QC, but I've had mislabeled juices and/or wrong bottles sent to me and without me checking to make sure, I was either vaping the wrong juice or the wrong nic level--no need to risk it with such high stakes (IMO).
I think you should be safe after a week of abstinence (as long as the the test is piss or plasma), but the longer the better.
Here is a link to a free pubmed article about The use of the signs of nicotine in their hair as a tool for the assessment of exposure to tobacco smoke (You are going to have to set your screen to translate to English)
p.s. You may want to lay off cauliflower, eggplant, potatoes, and tomatoes as they all contain nicotine and could, themselves, render a "false" positive. I wonder if next they'll ban consumption of veggies???
The Nicotine Content of Common Vegetables (New England Journal of Medicine)
My hospital instituted the no nic policy last year for new hires only. Smokers/vapors/dippers/or any other type of nic users employed before this policy went into effect are exempt. From what I understand that it's a once and done test however I don't work on the hospital grounds except to drop patients off at the ER so I don't know if they do spot checks or not on suspected nicotine junkies. I whole heartedly agree that the testing is complete and utter bull caca, my profession has an extremely high burn out and injury rate and a lot of folks smoke to relieve the stress that comes with the job. If they cancel us out then they best better get rid of the boozers, caffeine fiends, and those whose diet consists of twinkies, ring dings, ho hos, fast food, and diet cola!
If the nic test is causing so much of a hassle I'd look elsewhere for employment. I don't know what position you're applying for at the hospital but I'm sure the pay and maybe even the benifits would be better at the airport!
If the nic test is causing so much of a hassle I'd look elsewhere for employment. I don't know what position you're applying for at the hospital but I'm sure the pay and maybe even the benifits would be better at the airport!
Same here (AFAIK) and my wife works for a major hospital out here (same city as OP, maybe even same hospital--OP, PM me). Once hired/promoted, there aren't further checks as the test pertains to time of test.
Vaping zero nic pg/vg mix is not at all toally unsatisfying, esp. when faced with the proposition of going without.
At least you can still inhale, blow smoke rings, etc. and it has a relaxing ritual to it. You might even end up a zero nic vaper after having to abstain from nicotine for a while anyway. That part of the addiction is very "physical" and will pretty much go away quickly.
For me, smoking / vaping has been more psychological, I enjoy "doing it" the ritual of it.
GL, hope you get a great new job.
At least you can still inhale, blow smoke rings, etc. and it has a relaxing ritual to it. You might even end up a zero nic vaper after having to abstain from nicotine for a while anyway. That part of the addiction is very "physical" and will pretty much go away quickly.
For me, smoking / vaping has been more psychological, I enjoy "doing it" the ritual of it.
GL, hope you get a great new job.
Communist? No Sir! that is the Invisible Hand Of The Market TM protecting your Freedom TM! This is all about money, nonsmokers are cheaper to employ and if vapers get lumped in with them well, bummer, not enough of us to make an economic difference.
I agree D.Waterhouse, that's our capitalist society working for our greater good.
Bump. Hoping all went well for the OP. I am also curious to know what happened...
Dilution is a solution but substitution is my constitution.
https://www.urineluck.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=268
It is illegal in all states for employers or their representative to observe you urinating for a pre-employment screen. Simply do not give them what is unreasonable of them to ask for. Do NOT be a corporate slave. What you do on your time is YOUR time.
And don't be silly, this has NOTHING to do with the new health care laws. These wheels were put in to motion long before the affordable health care act was even thought of and is motivated by pure corporate greed. It's about profits for the very wealthy and nothing else.
https://www.urineluck.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=268
It is illegal in all states for employers or their representative to observe you urinating for a pre-employment screen. Simply do not give them what is unreasonable of them to ask for. Do NOT be a corporate slave. What you do on your time is YOUR time.
And don't be silly, this has NOTHING to do with the new health care laws. These wheels were put in to motion long before the affordable health care act was even thought of and is motivated by pure corporate greed. It's about profits for the very wealthy and nothing else.
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You can believe what you want, but considering it began before for your reasons, it would seem as if it is about something else. It's ultimately about costs and who costs more to insure. The hospitals already provide their own healthcare and it costs more to insure smokers, though the emphasis is on wellness. I am not saying it is a good policy because it most certainly is stupid.
"No studies show how many hospitals have banned hiring smokers. However, more hospitals have reported instituting such restrictions. For example:
ProMedica, which owns several hospitals in Michigan and Ohio.
St. Francis Medical Center in Cape Girardeau, Mo.
Crittenton Hospital Medical Center in Rochester, Mich.
These institutions have been smoke-free for years, and the restrictive policies follow the Cleveland Clinic, which in 2007 became one of the first health care institutions to stop hiring smokers."
Growing number of hospitals ban hiring smokers - amednews.com
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The Obama care Tax its 20,000 and counting pages of rules and regulations gives insurance medical company's free reign to wreak all sorts of havoc.
BTW this is what 20,000 pages looks like
If you follow the money who will profit from The Obama care tax? So yes I believe this travesty of legislation is just the beginning of fare worse intrusive insurance regulations on our day to day lives!
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