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High Voltage Atomizers

Discussion in 'Nhaler' started by d4rk3, Dec 23, 2009.

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  1. SpottedPony

    SpottedPony Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 7, 2009
    Rattlesnake territory
    Well, I think I can say with surety...ya don't want to ask most of those that posted on this thread what time it is. LOL.

    Anyway...I am just a simple person and a bit slow on the uptake...so bear with me now...but I have always noticed that the results one can achieve on paper rarely match the results one actually gets on the bench by a factor of 1...or simply put...100%. So...has anyone actually physically attached a 510 HV atomizer to a standard fully charged 510 battery and vaped eliquid by use of said "set up"? If so, could you be so kind as to share your observations?? Thanks ya'll!
     
  2. d4rk3

    d4rk3 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 29, 2009
    Yep, happy to help. I'd recommend ordering an extra pair of cr123's, that way one pair is always on the charger. Once you experience HV vaping, it's tough to go back to 3.7 :( lol.
     
  3. Leeroy5150

    Leeroy5150 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 22, 2009
    San Diego, CA
    In some cases real world testing differs from expectations... Not this time.
    I just tried a 5.2 ohm 510 HV Atty on a freshly charged genuine Joye510 battery. No vapor production at all. Just not enough wattage produced. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 2 watts I would imagine without actually load testing it.

    It's kind of like putting a big pot of water on the stove,setting it to simmer, and expecting it to boil. Just not enough heat produced.
     
  4. Leeroy5150

    Leeroy5150 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 22, 2009
    San Diego, CA
    Not 10 Volts, 10 Watts.

    I may get pounced on for sacrificing "correctness" for "clarity of concept" but here goes...

    Think of "wattage" as the amount of heat generated by the atty.

    There are mainly two things that affect the amount of heat generated...

    1) The Voltage of the battery and 2) the resistance of the atomizer.

    More battery voltage = more heat(wattage)

    More Atomizer resistance =less heat(wattage)

    The concept here is that there is more than one way to create a certain temperature in an atty. If the ideal "temperature" is 9-10 watts, there is more than one way to acheive this

    6v batteries with 4.5ohm atties = around 10 watts of heat.

    or 7.4v batteries with 5.2 ohm atties = around 10 watts of heat

    or 5.0v batteries with 2.5 ohm atties = around 10 watts of heat.

    (in the same way that 2+8, 5+5, and 7+3 all equal 10, though the math isn't quite that simple)

    The purpose of an "HV" atty is to keep the wattage in the ideal range by changing the resistance of the atty to work better with the battery voltages that our current devices already produce without further modification. Current "non HV" attys were pretty much all designed for standard 3.7 volt batteries.
     
  5. skywalk

    skywalk Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 31, 2009
    Malaysia
    So the ideal range is 8-11watts, which means a 4.5 ohm atty at approx 5-6v.

    I'd like to know how 5V at 2.5 ohms compares to 6v at 4.5 ohms. Both are 10watts according to your calculations. Wouldnt the HV atty last longer?
     
  6. Leeroy5150

    Leeroy5150 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 22, 2009
    San Diego, CA
    I'd like to know too as a standard 510(2.5 ohm) on my 5V Passthrough is just about ideal for me. A 4.5 ohm should give me the same experience on my Xhaler at 6 volts and be portable.

    As to durabitlity... it really depends on construction. I would imagine that the Atomizer resistance is varied by varying the length of the nichrome coil a smidge one way or the other. Assuming the same gauge wire and same manufacturing constraints and materials I would expect durability to be similar as they are both creating the same amount of heat and cooling at approximately the same rate. They may however be constructed to a different standard, I really can not speak to that as I have no idea whether they are or not. (I will say that in looking at my HV 510 the bridge appears a little meatier and there may be a few more "fibers" to wick a little more juice down to the coil than a standard atty. Maybe it is a little more "heavy duty" at least in that way. I only have one unfortunately and am not ready to tear it down to confirm this yet...
     
  7. CloudBurst

    CloudBurst Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Jun 2, 2009
    Georgia, USA
    I followed the earlier "break in" suggestions and love my HV atty with 2- 3.6v battys but when I put 2-3v battys in...nothing! Can someone tell me why?
     
  8. Leeroy5150

    Leeroy5150 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 22, 2009
    San Diego, CA
    Assuming you have a 5.2 ohm like mine... with two 3.7 volt you get about 10.5 Watts (probably a bit less real world). With two 3.0 volt you get 6.9 Watts, about 30% less heat created in the atty. That's around a 30% reduction in power. Even broken in and operating at its best its like turning the stove down from wide open to a bit over medium... a big difference.
     
  9. CloudBurst

    CloudBurst Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Jun 2, 2009
    Georgia, USA
    Makes sense thanks, I swore someone said to break in at the 3.6's and then go to the 6v?? oh well, I still love it!
     
  10. SpottedPony

    SpottedPony Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 7, 2009
    Rattlesnake territory
    THANK YOU Leeroy5150!!!!! I appreciate your answer! Soooo refreshing!!! AND informative!! At last!!! Thank you, thank you!!
     
  11. highping

    highping Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 29, 2009
    Columbus, OH
    What time you say?
    Well... that's going on depend on your current coordinates and latitude relative to the international date line, as well as the status of DST in your local area...... JK :p :D
     
  12. SpottedPony

    SpottedPony Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 7, 2009
    Rattlesnake territory
    :thumbs:

    I gotta tell you..your pup (the one in your picture) is a doll! Oddly, I can picture him "speaking" your posts ... this is meant in a nice way...trust me.
     
  13. alphafemale

    alphafemale Super Member ECF Veteran

    May 18, 2009
    Marshall, Michigan

    I agree, that's a pretty baby!
     
  14. highping

    highping Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 29, 2009
    Columbus, OH
    Thanks...that's what he is too...a 140lb, 6 foot tall, baby :rolleyes:
     
  15. badkolo

    badkolo ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    There seems to be no 510 HV atty's but I already made a juice order, i guess next time.
     
  16. crashtestjeep

    crashtestjeep Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 14, 2009
    Wilmington, NC
    Im not sure...I used mine for over a week w 2 3.7v batts then just to see stuck in 2 3v batts and it worked well....not a huge difference over 3.7v total but it worked....:confused:

    It may be possible mine was a lil more or less "tweaked" but Id assume it should still work w 6v...

    Im about to break in a second one so Ill let you know later this week if I have any luck with that one at 6v after break in!:)
     
  17. skywalk

    skywalk Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 31, 2009
    Malaysia
    Can someone pls clarify what "break in time" means? How long does it typically take and how would u know if you're done?
     
  18. highping

    highping Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 29, 2009
    Columbus, OH
    "break-in" is just a loose term that refers to a few things that are going on internally in a new atty. For one the primer takes a little while to work out completely. Also the heating element itself goes through some physical changes during the first few dozen burns. It actually breaks down a little and scales over slightly making the surface a little rougher (ie. more surface area to work its magic). The resistance will also change a little.
    The amount of time it takes is going to vary with every atty. Let's just say somewhere between a minute and a week ;).
    You can tell when the initial break-in is achieved because you will start getting better hits, but it's never really 'done'. It will continue to 'break in' all the way up until it 'breaks down'.


    Note: The preceding statements are just my theories, and not empirical facts. (hmmm, I should make that my sig line :D)
     
  19. cesande

    cesande Full Member

    Sep 15, 2009
    WOW thanks for all the information here!

    I had a series of events happen last night that almost killed my hardware stash! I have been on the fence about the XHaler for a while and have not pulled the plug.
    Last night I lost 3 batteries AND the switch on my passthrough.....!!!
    This left me with 1 working 510 battery and a few attys that are still fine!!!

    This will NOT do cause with the standard 510 I have allways just kept 2 batteries and attys at the ready at all times and the passthrough setup in case!

    I knew I needed to make a change cause my batteries were down to lasting maybe 10 good hits before heading back to the charger.

    Some history...
    I have been fine with all aspects of the standard 510 atty and the passthrough more so than the standard battery, but with the recent failures I needed to replace hardware....

    Sooo.... 17 calls to Drew later (Sorry man but I was in a panic cause I have been analog free now for 6+ months) I have the XHaler on order with a couple spare standard 510 attys and 2 spare batteries (all batteries 3.0v)...

    My question for you all here is?

    With my desire to stay at the vape production of the standard 510 atty attached to the passthrough (or slightly increase), but the primary goal of much longer battery life...... Do you think that staying with the standard 510 atty and the 2x 3.0v setup is fine or do I need to jump on it when Drew gets more 521 HV attys.......

    This all assumes that I can beat ya'll to the shopping cart with them! LoL

    Thanks again and I would appreciate any and all additional info.

    And.... YES Drew's HV Juice IS the BEST !!!

    Thanks again

    cesande
     
  20. cesande

    cesande Full Member

    Sep 15, 2009
    Sorry .. meant to say jump on the HV 510 attys NOT 521
     
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