Higher nicotine levels - oh yes

[mrcoolbp]

My point here is that we do not need any more posts about being careful. The point has been made in several posts already.
As far as the concern about new vapers reading this thread and going wild on 52mg/ml juice are concerned, I would like to point out the large yellow warnings that are on every page, and my own denial of responsibility in my original post. It’s simply not feasible to prevent all
I would also like to point out that I’m still alive, still healthy, still feeling well and vaping the hell out of my 5.2% as I type.
This post is not meant to upset anyone, please don’t take it as so. Hopefully it will stimulate some intelligent assessment of facts that are out there waiting to be found and will allow all of us to vape with the confidence of knowledge.

Kind regards, keep on vaping,

Tawraste

Believe me I'm glad you've done research, and you seem relatively well informed. I personally don't think there can ever be enough warnings wen we are talking about lethal poison. Thanks for posting all that science about inhalation and toxicity, good stuff. I'd agree someone with your caution and tolerance is relatively safe vaping the liquid, as you know what you're looking for in case of a high dose. I'd like to reiterate though that carrying around a bottle of that high strength (i.e. in a pocket) is potentially hospital inducing. Many DIY people use nitrile gloves when dealing in 60mg/ml and up. And please use extreme caution around pets and children with the actually liquid. That's all man, take it easy.

 

[tawraste]

no problemo, cheers for your concern. Btw, the bottle is never in a pocket! imagine the absorption site being the old boy lol.....

edit: for the record all my vaping gear is in a locked box at home, for the safety and benefit of all.

 

[mrcoolbp]

Nice man, good to hear, vape on friends, and enjoy that nic rush.

 

[Plumes.91]

Nicotine is alkaline in nature, saliva leans toward being acidic, and if the nicotine is not absorbed before being swallowed after being deposited on the lining of the mouth it will reach the stomach with is very acidic.
As has been pointed out previously, nicotine is a psychoactive molecular compound of which small amounts are required for a detectable physical response.
The presence of the metabolites cotinine...247ng/ml and 3-oh-cotinine S/P....66ng/ml simply demonstrate that nicotine previously absorbed has been metabolized.

very interesting stuff. i have heard that alkaline substances help battle cancer. But, nicotine seems to facilitate the growth of tumor cells i've read. Maybe it is the psychostimulative effects that boost the growth of cancer cells. the alkalinity of the nicotine probably doesn't stand a chance at neutralizing the acid levels in our body to any cancer fighting degree, when compared to the negative effects of the vascular constriction and maybe inflamation? But it might be a good addition to an alkaline rich diet? Im just blowing hot air because I dont know much about alkaline vs acidity effecting cancer cell production, or the chemistry behind nicotine boosting cancer growth.. But it is interesting that the substance we sought after when inhaling the acidic cancer causing smoke from cigarettes, is actually an alkaline substance, which are thought to reduce occurances of malignant tumor growth?

 

[tawraste]

very interesting. I've heard it has some benefits with things like alzheimers, but i'd have to do some reading and post a link. What I also find interesting is how all of the most habit forming molecules seem to be alkaline in nature....

 

[dannyv45]

Interesting bit of reading here and very informative. I was a 40 year smoker of a pack and a half a day and started vaping about 6 weeks ago and have been completely off analogs now for almost 3 weeks. I've started and stayed with 24ml and must admit that 90% of the time this works for me but I do get the urges for an analog from time to time expecially during high pressure situations where the vape doesen't really do it for me and I find myself fighting through the urge. I was concerned about going higher with the NIC content in my juice but after reading I feel much safer about maybe mixing a 30 - 33ml mix to get me through those situations. Thanks to the OP for this interesting thread.

 

[Red_Bird]

Nicotine is like most things.

You can find pro's....You can find cons.

Its not a drug to be feared....its in many vegetables we consume (@ low levels)

In India and China people can buy PURE NICOTENE (99.5+%)......that is to be respected and only used by folks taking every possible precaution.

But the 10% we can buy here in America (100 mg)......people exaggerate its potency and its toxicity....its deadly to cat or a tiny dog, yes.....possibly to a child under 3....but to an adult? not unless you drink a liter.

 

[dannyv45]

Its not a drug to be feared.....

Its not a drug to be feared but should be understood.

 

[mrcoolbp]

Nicotine is like most things.

You can find pro's....You can find cons.

Its not a drug to be feared....its in many vegetables we consume (@ low levels)

In India and China people can buy PURE NICOTENE (99.5+%)......that is to be respected and only used by folks taking every possible precaution.

But the 10% we can buy here in America (100 mg)......people exaggerate its potency and its toxicity....its deadly to cat or a tiny dog, yes.....possibly to a child under 3....but to an adult? not unless you drink a liter.

I find it hard to believe it would take a whole liter of 100mg nic for death to be on the table, an ml or two has more then enough to kill an adult, then we are just talking absorption....plus don't give anyone ideas LOL.

 

[tawraste]

A litre? Ho ho. Thats a darwin award right there!

 

[LucentShadow]

Nicotine is like most things.

You can find pro's....You can find cons.

Its not a drug to be feared....its in many vegetables we consume (@ low levels)

In India and China people can buy PURE NICOTENE (99.5+%)......that is to be respected and only used by folks taking every possible precaution.

But the 10% we can buy here in America (100 mg)......people exaggerate its potency and its toxicity....its deadly to cat or a tiny dog, yes.....possibly to a child under 3....but to an adult? not unless you drink a liter.

This is another example why I really dislike the tendency of this community to use just mg when referring to mg/ml. Especially so with many vendors who perpetuate it. Saying 100mg is stating that there is only 100mg in the solution, which is WAY off for a 1 liter quantity.

A 10% (100mg/ml) solution of nicotine has 100mg of nicotine per ml. A liter is 1000ml. Simple math shows that a liter of that contains 100,000mg of nicotine. Even if the LD50 were much higher than what was stated earlier for the average person, like 200mg, that's still enough to kill 500 people.

Be safe.

 

[tawraste]

i dont know if this kind of widespread figure mismanagement is a blessing or a curse. the illegal drug community is utterly ignorant of any kind of figures, and they get away with a paltry number of deaths comparatively speaking as a result.
if people start dying from figure mismanagement from nicotine would this be worse as it would technically be suicide?

ok, I hereby acknowledge the necessity of relentless warnings. I do think it should be modified to emphasise the necessity of education though.

 

[DeeDee1234]

fixin to real. Getting my popcorn

 

[Norman Clature]

I imagine you're able to handle the 54 or whatever mg/ml juice just because it's a cigalike

Trying doing that out of a properly build dual/quad coil dripper RBA like a nimbus with nice drilled airholes and you'll pass out.

Two things matter, how much nicotine, and how much vapor you're getting

you're substituting how much vapor you're getting with more and more nicotine

to each their own

I was waiting to hear something like this. I started on a KR808d at 24mg nicotine, but now that I have a REO Grand with an RBA that hits like a freight-train I've gone down to 12mg most of the time.

The question about toxicity levels all depends on what type of delivery system we are talking about so I can see why you are doing it. Even at 12mg with a super-charged delivery system there's no way I'm really getting that amount. I think the strongest "name brand" cigarettes peaked at around 2-3mg?

Of course, the "big tobacco" companies over the years figured out how to add "secret" chemicals to turn it into a "free-base" sensation that e-cigs will probably never get to.

Norman

 

[psycheval]

Ya'll pay attention now. They roam around in packs. One sticks his head out and gets your attention while the others pop up every now and then in the background. They moved over here. I busted em' in a few more spots but have not blown them yet there. Don't bother hidin' now you done stuck your heads up.

 

[mrcoolbp]

This is another example why I really dislike the tendency of this community to use just mg when referring to mg/ml. Especially so with many vendors who perpetuate it. Saying 100mg is stating that there is only 100mg in the solution, which is WAY off for a 1 liter quantity.

A 10% (100mg/ml) solution of nicotine has 100mg of nicotine per ml. A liter is 1000ml. Simple math shows that a liter of that contains 100,000mg of nicotine. Even if the LD50 were much higher than what was stated earlier for the average person, like 200mg, that's still enough to kill 500 people.

Be safe.

Everything LuscentShadow said!! [emphasis mine]

.... I think the strongest "name brand" cigarettes peaked at around 2-3mg? ...

"Yes" and "no," I remember reading an analogue might have 12-14mg but only a few mg are actually absorbed. That's why actual absorption is an important variable that we don't have solid data on. Therefore we should be conservative and avoid death. I'm not trying to be alarmist, just don't want you fine people (or your fine children) to suffer a horrible fate because of avoidable ignorance. It seems the OP is staying within his safety limits, but I just wanted to shed light on the potentially fatal consequences if liquid in this strength is mishandled.

 

[mrcoolbp]

ok, I hereby acknowledge the necessity of relentless warnings. I do think it should be modified to emphasise the necessity of education though.

Good man, just want to keep you and everyone safe. I got into this hobby to help save lives. Also it would be horrible for all of us (think legislatively) if someone died from a tiny bit of spilled juice....

 

[JD1]

I imagine you're able to handle the 54 or whatever mg/ml juice just because it's a cigalike

Trying doing that out of a properly build dual/quad coil dripper RBA like a nimbus with nice drilled airholes and you'll pass out.

Two things matter, how much nicotine, and how much vapor you're getting

you're substituting how much vapor you're getting with more and more nicotine

to each their own

I started at 18 and 24, but a few months back when I started diy I started slowly reducing the levels. I had it down to 12 mg when I bought a couple of dream 804s. On my first tank, I got a nic buzz and finally had to cut my nic to 6mg. I'm pretty happy there but I'm missing the flavor some. I've read posts where some of the ss mesh devices are doing the same thing (nic buzz).

 

[dannyv45]

Ya'll pay attention now. They roam around in packs. One sticks his head out and gets your attention while the others pop up every now and then in the background. They moved over here. I busted em' in a few more spots but have not blown them yet there. Don't bother hidin' now you done stuck your heads up.

It's gotten very hot in here all of a sudden. Think I need to turn the air on.

 

[Norman Clature]

Well my only point or 2 points were:

a) There's no way the OP is really absorbing anywhere near 60mg per ml because of the delivery system.

b) No matter what level of nicotine was permitted in "analogs" the "big tobacco" companies had decades to perfect the delivery system into a "freebase" form, which hit your nerves/brain, etc. ultra-fast.

From here:
Freebase nicotine - SourceWatch


"To freebase nicotine, cigarette companies add ammonia, usually in the form of diammonium phosphate. The addition of ammonia, a base, de-protonates nicotine, making it cross through membranes in the body much more easily. This makes the drug more "bioavailable" to the lungs, brain and tissues. Because ammonia is also a base (negatively charged), it strips away protons from nicotine, turning it into "freebase" form. Scientists have collected the nicotine in cigarette smoke with filters, exposed it to ammonia, and measured how different concentrations of ammonia affect the ratios of protonated to "freebase" nicotine in cigarette smoke. Studies suggest that adding ammonia has a substantial effect on the amount of freebase nicotine contained in cigarette smoke"