Homemade Snus with Rustica Tobacco Leaf

[jongleur]

John, you ruined my thoughts of that wonderful recipie. lol
"Household Assistant" = kitchen mixer , ok I was hoping for a pretty female here.
"Glass Shape" = glass pie plate; glass baking dish. I had thoughts of her figure....hour glass
"Plastic film" = plastic wrap. Some form of sexy appearal while thoughs of a "hug apparent" !

I'm really a lonely and sensitive person ok?

Rule #1: If you fluff your portion, do NOT expect it to reciprocate.

Besides, I guess you forgot: this is a DIY thread!

--John

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

John, you ruined my thoughts of that wonderful recipie. lol
"Household Assistant" = kitchen mixer , ok I was hoping for a pretty female here.
"Glass Shape" = glass pie plate; glass baking dish. I had thoughts of her figure....hour glass
"Plastic film" = plastic wrap. Some form of sexy appearal while thoughs of a "hug apparent" !

I'm really a lonely and sensitive person ok?

Ok V....I've tried really hard to keep my flap shut on this most informative thread, but..................Bubba, you need to get out of the shop for a while. I got tears rollin' here.

 

[Vaporer]

TV, some things just need to be said and I'm done on that subject. lol
I called 1-800-HOT-FOXX...............hee hee

I did do the Baking Soda "cook down" to Sodium Carbonate.
400*F for 2hrs. Starting weight was 10gms, final weight 6.65gm.
Soaked 5gm of dried ground rustica last night in carbonate instead of bicarb.
Noticeable darker color than with bicarb. Even when dried and reground.
Need to add flavoring and mellow for a day now.

Light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[firechick]

TV, some things just need to be said and I'm done on that subject. lol
I called 1-800-HOT-FOXX...............hee hee



I did do the Baking Soda "cook down" to Sodium Carbonate.
400*F for 2hrs. Starting weight was 10gms, final weight 6.65gm.
Soaked 5gm of dried ground rustica last night in carbonate instead of bicarb.
Noticeable darker color than with bicarb. Even when dried and reground.
Need to add flavoring and mellow for a day now.

Light at the end of the tunnel.

V, ususally I tell patients if they see a light, they need to stay away from it, but in this case.....run, son, run to the light!!!!!

 

[Kate51]

This is better than Emeril Live! More like Iron Chef. Nice work all.

 

[Vaporer]

Hi Kate.
Been a while and glad to see you stop by. I'm sure you're not surprized to see me into something. lol
Since the PACT Act is going to make us more miserable and poorer than we have been we decided to find alternatives.
In a couple other threads we found that its just not the nicotine many of us crave when we quit smoking. Many alkaloids are in tobacco, MAOI's, and when extracted and vaped we all did better, much better than just nic alone. There just ins't a good safe method for the average person to acomplish this. Snus does quite well for many. Its reduced my vaping to the point I do it for a flavor, the hand habit....relaxing....not because I have to.

There are threads in smokeless on snuff making, growing tobacco and going to be many more topics. We have quite a few of the ladies here too and they are doing well with it.

Hope you stay around and cook some with us! We do flavors too...........lol
There's the cliff notes version!

 

[Vaporer]

John,
You had mentioned salt before.
Some snus is very salty. G. Rape and others have hardly none at all that I can detect.

I did find this posted:
G. Rape contains as high as 5% salt. The highest I found. They even listed it a 2nd time as flavor enhancing!
Ettan regular contains 2% salt.

Might be good for a reference value later.

 

[Kate51]

I have been watching the Pact Threads, I say there are a lot of people very disappointed and very confused about what their government is doing..so fast it's totally overwhelming.
My problem is that I don't think I want to quit vaping, I really do love a puff once in awhile, but snus is pretty stealth.
I would not be surprised to be ordering some of those seeds pretty soon, I may just look at it! It may be a good thing to do, considering. Our soil here is sandy loam, just about right for 'baccy! Just what we need another hobby.

Nice to see you having some fun! Hope your HazMat signs are up there, I didn't see any in the pics! Geez, be more careful.
Kate

 

[Vaporer]

Kate, I know where you are coming from. I like a good vape here and there. I doubt I'll ever quit. I like having the snus so I dont have to vape constantly 24/7 though. Snuff helps, but doesnt get the goodies like snus can.
On the other hand, I dont care at all for what is going on with the gov and no one knows how it will effect eliquid. I have no doubt they will toss it in too since Judge Leon went with tobacco type and not medical.

They have Chobies Virginia seeds on EBay for $3 I think. 1000 seeds. Will take weather in Alaska. We have a tobacco growing thread on here too now. lol

 

[exogenesis]

So, if I've got this right, you've made the latest & greatest version :

1g carbonate + 10 ml water,
1ml of this per gram dried rustica,
24 hrs sit with occasional mixing.
Snus done.

For snuff, re-dry, re-grind.

Does the snus version feel better than before ?

Sorry haven't done the exact carbonate per gram to pH9 yet,
crappy pH probe going doo-lally, getting another one early next week.

But look likes might need >0.2g carbonate per g rustica to get pH9,
there's a lot of material dissolving from the plant material soaking
up the alkalinity = snus juice, very dark, strong tobacco tea anyone ?

Saturated carbonate is ~20g in 10ml volume, so still can get only needing 1ml liquid
per 1 g dry baccy, just about makes it do-able.

 

[Vaporer]

Here's the last formula I tried exo, but I made snuff out of it.

1g carbonate + 10 ml water,
1ml of this per gram dried rustica,
24 hrs sit with occasional mixing.
Dried, reground added menthol to make snuff, not snus.

I've been working on the SnusX portions, drying & flavoring, so I was doing something in both areas.

The snuff was rough on the nose and I thought it may have been the carbonate(pH), but if I read your post wrong and at what I mixed, it had to be to much menthol, not to low pH. Or the pH really pushed the menthol. It was velvety to the nose before.
The formula I posted here made the rustica go pretty dark brown, the bicarb did not at all.
But, if I'm that far off there is a lot of nic still not freebased!

I was due for a couple "not so good ones"..........sigh..............

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Hey Vaporer, exo and John, here's an interesting tidbit http://www.google.com/patents/downl...UXFweGX6QLfteiKbg&source=gbs_overview_r&cad=0

 

[exogenesis]

Interesting info TV,
'only' 2 years' hogshead matured (whatever that is).

Wonder how long it normally takes to make snuff.



Finally got a new pH probe, looks like actual amount carbonate to get pH is (per gram rustica) :

pH 7 : 0.04 g
pH 8 : 0.06 g
pH 8.5 : 0.08g
pH 9 : 0.13g

compared Golden virginia just for the hell of it,
but I estimate 20% moisture (?) rather than rustica's 10% as measured by Vaporer.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Ok, takin' notes....glad you were precise exo, not that I expected any different. I like the comparison with Virginia also, that's quite a difference from the Rustica. Now just a minor question, when heating sodium bicarb to produce sodium carbonate does the whole pie convert? And how would someone like me know that it has converted? Color or texture change or just assume? And would there be a downside if too much was added to the 'baccy? ....ok, a couple questions.

 

[Vaporer]

Nice link TV . I downloaded the file and actually got busy before I could read it..........geesh.
How does the world expect me to get this important stuff done here when they bother me with trival life problems? lol

Exo, looks good. At least the formula I used above was close to 100%.
It came out at .1gm carbonate per gm of rustica.
Thanks for the confirm.

On the nose burning issue. Its not the pH.
It let the nic loose in the rustica way more than the bicarb did and the nic give the mild sizzle. I made another batch just like it , no menthol. I did notice that it takes way less menthol when the pH is lower with the carbonate vs bicarb. So the menthol was blasting the burn in too. All is good now. I can feel my nose pulse when snuffing. oooooooo lol

TV, if you look close at Baking Soda, it kinda looks like spheres, balls, hard bubbles? When spread abt 1/8" thick in a pyrex baking dish and heated for 2 hrs @ 400F, it comes out the same color, but it looks like a much finer powder.
I weighed mine before and after and it was very close to exo's calculation, so I know it worked that way.

Nice comparison to the Virginia exo. I'm looking for some leaf now. I have seeds started, but would be nice to have some to play with till and if mine grows.

I might start a snuff thread for just all rustica methods and recipies.
Dred has one but I think he's using a mix of both Rustica and Virginia. Thats fine, but the carbonate for freebase will need to be adjusted according to the % mix.
Adding some Virginia will give it a diff flavor but a lower nic, which, some or many may prefer.
I will post my mixed recipies there.

 

[Bagazo]

A tobacco hogshead was used in American colonial times to transport and store tobacco. It was a very large wooden barrel.

TV I noticed that in the doc you linked to that in the traditional method of snuff making they have two different fermentation processes going on. The first is in the hogshead going on for 3 to 5 years and the second is at a higher moisture content placed in a stack which takes a couple of months of "turning out" (turned over to allow for cooling).

This is what causes the increase of TSNAs in tobacco products.

As I have said before I have seen claims by snuff fans that the only documented case of snuff causing cancer in england was that of an old man that had grown fond of using snuff in his ear. Don't know how true this is and I can't find the page where I had read it but will keep looking.

Here is the link to the snuff in the ear info:http://www.snuffbox.org.uk/#Health%20Hazard

 

[Dredbull]

Well straight Rustica snuff is well almost heart stopping, face melting, brain busting.

I had to use a wad of virgina in the snuff to keep it somewhat sane.

 

[Vaporer]

Well straight Rustica snuff is well almost heart stopping, face melting, brain busting.

I had to use a wad of virgina in the snuff to keep it somewhat sane.

Ok. This is another question I have to ask myself. Am I wired right? I doubt it from my track record. I've been using the Rustica snuff straight and the occasional feeling my pulse in my nose it all I get. I do get satisfaction.

Dred, are you using Sodium Carbonate? I never saw you mention it.

Yea, the documentation I found, its posted here somewhere states that TSNA's are created from a deprived O2 environment. Shielded flue curing, which allows O2 to circulate does not increase TSNA's to any worthwhile degree. The same scenerio, where the heat source deprived of O2 curing the tobacco, runs the TSNA's sky high.
Conclusion, any curing should be done in an open fresh air environment.

 

[exogenesis]

TV the bicarbonate (baking soda) to carbonate conversion:
(could have sworn I'd posted this already)

2NaHCO3 -> heat -> Na2CO3 + H2O + CO2

So, for every 100 g bicarb. in, you get 63 g carbonate out,
guess it doesn't matter if a littel doesn't get converted.

Just checking : is Golden Virgina RYO what people here would call 'virginia',
or does the latter imply a bag of whole-leaf tobacco?,
just that I dont know how much 'processing' the RYO has had.

You're confusing me a little Vaporer,

I did notice that it takes way less menthol when the pH is lower with the carbonate vs bicarb.

Surely the pH is higher for carbonate, what do you mean by 'takes less menthol'

The oxygen depleted environment causes the bacteria to change metabolic pathways,
'eating' the nitrogenous compounds (like nicotine) & converting them to TSNAs
-at least that's what I read.

 

[Vaporer]

Exo, my bad if I explained it poorly.
The original batch I made used Sodium Bicarbonate. I estimated .1gm per gm of Rustica.
Your results showed that to be not nearly enough to freebase all or most of the nic.
The above Bicarb batch was mentholated and velvety smooth to th nose and just what I wanted on the menthol amount/effect.

I then made an identical batch Using Sodium Carbonate and the same amount of menthol.
It was a nose frier. I didnt know if it was the lower pH or the menthol causing the extra burn. In case of pH I stopped it so I didnt inflame or damage nasal tissue till I had the answer.

I then made a 3rd batch exactly the same with Sodium Carbonate .1gm to 1gm of Rustica. No menthol. It was way less in the burn dept. The nic effet came up and the light burn was more like commercial snuff. Adding the menthol in lesser amounts and testing, I needed a lot less menthol for the effect I had originally was pleased with.
I cant say if the nic helps the menthol or the lower pH added to its effect. I just need less for a good outcome.

So, all is well now. I did the 10gm Baking Soda @ 400*F for 2hrs in a pyrex baking dish.
The original weight was 10gm and after 2 hrs heating it weighed 6.65gm and seemed a finer powder in consistancy and concurred very close to your posted numbers.

On the TSNA's seems O2 deprivation is the culprit on its increase.
The example I posted above, the second method of flu cured let the heated exaust gases flow through the drying/curing chamber. The lack of O2 in the exhaust gases drove the TNSA's up fast. The same situation where the exhaust gases were vented away from the hanging tobacco and just the radiated heat cured it, the TSNA's were the same as open air or sun cured. Very low TSNA's.

Hope that explains it all better.