How to know if a battery is venting?

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Baditude

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Our resident battery expert @Mooch has written in depth about this subject of battery venting and thermal runaway: Li-Ion Battery Chemistries - What are the differences in their safety?

If you haven't found his blog yet, there is a ton of useful information about the batteries that we use in our mods. He actually tests these batteries and does an objective summary about their performance and specifications. He also has a short list of batteries that he recommends which he keeps up to date. Mooch's Blog
I've written a few articles on batteries myself. I developed an interest in lithium batteries a few years back when I had a battery explode in a mechanical mod and decided to do some research to educate myself.

Are You Using a Rewrap (Rebranded) Battery?
A Beginner's Guide to Your First Mechanical Mod
Battery Basics for Mods: The Definative Battery Guide for Vaping
Deeper Understanding of Mod Batteries Part 1
Purple Efest Batteries Not As Advertised
 

Cf11

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Our resident battery expert @Mooch has written in depth about this subject of battery venting and thermal runaway: Li-Ion Battery Chemistries - What are the differences in their safety?

If you haven't found his blog yet, there is a ton of useful information about the batteries that we use in our mods. He actually tests these batteries and does an objective summary about their performance and specifications. He also has a short list of batteries that he recommends which he keeps up to date. Mooch's Blog
I've written a few articles on batteries myself. I developed an interest in lithium batteries a few years back when I had a battery explode in a mechanical mod and decided to do some research to educate myself.

Are You Using a Rewrap (Rebranded) Battery?
A Beginner's Guide to Your First Mechanical Mod
Battery Basics for Mods: The Definative Battery Guide for Vaping
Deeper Understanding of Mod Batteries Part 1
Purple Efest Batteries Not As Advertised
Thanks for all the links.
Will give them a read :)

Woah. Were you vaping it when it exploded? Did you find out why it happened?
 
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Robino1

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Our resident battery expert @Mooch has written in depth about this subject of battery venting and thermal runaway: Li-Ion Battery Chemistries - What are the differences in their safety?

If you haven't found his blog yet, there is a ton of useful information about the batteries that we use in our mods. He actually tests these batteries and does an objective summary about their performance and specifications. He also has a short list of batteries that he recommends which he keeps up to date. Mooch's Blog
I've written a few articles on batteries myself. I developed an interest in lithium batteries a few years back when I had a battery explode in a mechanical mod and decided to do some research to educate myself.

Are You Using a Rewrap (Rebranded) Battery?
A Beginner's Guide to Your First Mechanical Mod
Battery Basics for Mods: The Definative Battery Guide for Vaping
Deeper Understanding of Mod Batteries Part 1
Purple Efest Batteries Not As Advertised

Hiya!!! Long time no see! :wub:

Hey, we woke Bad up, shhh

Bwahahahahahha!
 

anavidfan

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I had a battery start to vent.

I was driving around in a panic, lost , no air conditioning on a 105+ day.

First I noticed that my Mech tube mod ( ELA Telescopic mech), just sort of fell apart, not broken just all the parts were loose as if someone came and turn the threads just enough so it rattling around. I picked it up off the little case I had next to me and thought wt....

Pulled over put all together again, continued on my lost journey, sweating like a pig, panicking and vaping, but every time I put it down, Id lock it.

Again, pick it up, all loose. This time I remembered what the modder said when everyone was questioning the safety/ lack of "visible" venting design etc. that it would protect itself, when pressure from a venting battery was detected it would pop apart.

I pulled over took the battery out, put it in the case and did not vape till I finally got home.

When I did get home, I looked at everything. Mod in perfect shape, no arching spots, no signs of charring or intense heat. All delrin, orings in perfect shape... Battery.... Now it did not look right. Not hot, not charred but it looked as if it had expanded. The wrap was all stretched out and the ends of the batteries were slightly rounded in an outward direction.

I think at the time I posted photos and asked and the consensus what that it had gotten over heated in the car from use. Temp that day was 105? and in my non AC car It was probably higher, all stainless device and atomizer, things were hot. Thank goodness that at the time I only used AW 18500 IMRs and made my builds at 1.5?

You just have to be aware, and never let yourself get lazy when it comes to testing on an Ohm reader before you pop it on any mod, even a regulated one. A couple years ago when boxes were becoming mainstream, werent there a few that were just sitting on counters, tables, some on the off mode, some charging, some doing nothing that just caught on fire?

Seems everyone thinks that reg devices are "hazard" free, but they too , even with all the fail safes built in can go boom.

REmember the exploding Iphones, Galaxy phones, and so many laptops burning people? Yet no one is demonizing them like they do E-vaping gear. Many of the accidents have involved people who mishandle batteries.
 

Bad Ninja

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I think at the time I posted photos and asked and the consensus what that it had gotten over heated in the car from use. Temp that day was 105? and in my non AC car It was probably higher, all stainless device and atomizer, things were hot. Thank goodness that at the time I only used AW 18500 IMRs and made my builds at 1.5?

.


Avid, It regularly gets 130 dgrees where I live.
I vape almost exclusively mechanicals
I dont think its possible for 105 in a car to cause a battery to vent.
All my mods will see temps higher than that every summer.
 

HauntedMyst

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That's horrifying man. That happening in my face? I'd rather not vape anymore. :(


I wouldn't worry too much about it on a regulated vape. A regulate mod blowing is an oddity. The odds of it happening are like up there like getting hit by lightning. Also, unless you are really attractive, as few of us are, then really what is the loss? Have you been out there in mid America lately? It's like feeding time at the Rhino exhibit in the zoo! It's like a Jurassic Park where all the dinosaurs are on Weight Watchers and not succeeding. It's not pretty. I'm one of those rare human oddities that is beautiful. I'm man pretty, like Brad Pitt on one of his good days (well he wishes). Like the statue of David beautiful. A vape blows up in my face and that's a loss on an epic scale, like The Louvre losing the Mona Lisa, tigers becoming extinct or New York being ground zero in a nuclear attack. It would be tragic. A vape blows up in the average Joe's face and what is really the loss? It's really just rearranging the pieces of a jigsaw puzzle of a picture that made no sense anyways. Just wear protective glasses and you'll be fine.
 

Imfallen_Angel

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It seems people, while trying to help. confuse venting and thermal runaway.

Venting is the battery releasing gases and liquid as the internals overheat and the battery's internal safety seal "pops". The batteries are build like this to try and releases the "energy" and prevent a catastrophic surge of heat and pressure that would cause an explosive scenario. Once this "pressure" is relieved, the battery shouldn't be a risk but still, it needs to be disposed in an appropriate way and still considered to be dangerous.

Basically, shake a soda can and pull the tab... venting is like that but with hot gases and liquids.

Vent holes in mods is to let these escape instead of having a pressure buildup that would cause to mod to explode from the pressure.

The mods going boom are usually without these vent holes (or poor/insufficient ones).

Thermal runaway is when the cause of the short/overload is harsh enough to cause the lithium to react violently and starts a combustion reaction.
 

Baditude

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Woah. Were you vaping it when it exploded? Did you find out why it happened?
No and yes. I had put my mech mod in my pants pocket which was hanging in my work locker. I returned a few minutes later to do a quick stealth vape before my work day started. The mod was almost too hot to touch, and there was a burnt electrical smell in the room. After the mod had cooled down enough to remove it from the pants pocket, I was able to inspect it and the battery.

Both ends of the battery had blown out. The pants pocket was singed from the heat generated. The mod's fire button initially continued to work, but had to be replaced within a couple of days.

upload_2017-6-1_14-16-51.jpeg


Here's a lousy pic of the battery. It's a 14500 TrustFire "protected" ICR battery. Back in the day we didn't have safer-chemistry IMR batteries like we do today. What caused the battery to go into thermal runaway was the fire button had become pressed continuously in the pants pocket, causing an overdischarge of the battery.

The mod also had a protruding horn-style fire button, which made it more likely to be inadvertantly compressed in the pocket. The fire button was mechanically designed to allow venting gases to escape (hence it needed to be replaced). Despite having the appearance of being a pocket-friendly mod, the protruding fire button turned out to be not so safe for pockets. :eek:
BBinhand.jpg

full

BB mod with cartotank
 
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Asbestos4004

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No. I had put my mech mod in my pants pocket hanging in my work locker. I returned a few minutes later to do a quick stealth vape before my work day started. The mod was almost too hot to touch, and there was a burnt electrical smell in the room. After the mod had cooled down enough to remove it from the pants pocket, I was able to inspect it.

Both ends of the battery had blown out. The pants pocket was singed from the heat generated. The mod's fire button initially continued to work, but had to be replaced within a couple of days.

View attachment 661505

Here's a lousy pic of the battery. It's a 14500 TrustFire "protected" ICR battery. Back in the day we didn't have safer-chemistry IMR batteries like we do today. What caused the battery to go into thermal runaway was the fire button had become pressed continuously in the pants pocket, causing an overdischarge of the battery.

The mod also had a protruding horn-style fire button, which made it more likely to be inadvertantly compressed in the pocket. The fire button was mechanically designed to all venting gases to escape (hence it needed to be replaced). Despite having the appearance of being a pocket-friendly mod, the protruding fire button turned out to be not so safe for pockets.
BBinhand.jpg

full

BB mod with cartotank
Good to see ya, brother...
 

go_player

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I mean i know that after a battery had vented it looks and smells weird but how do you get to know when it's happening to you while vaping?
I thought i should ask you guys about it.
Thanks in advance for any inputs and suggestions. :)

Edit- i use an 18650 lg hg2 with the al85 and baby beast on a .6 coil and vape at around 30 to 40w.

Well you'll know _when_ it's venting, and you probably won't have a great deal of time to think about what to do. If you're with other people and you have the heart of a lion you might think about throwing yourself on top of it to save your comrades (just kidding, don't do that.) Once a battery has started to vent it generally can't be stopped, and your best bet is to get as far away from it as you can while it does its thing, and prepare yourself to deal with the aftermath once it's done doing its thing.

Luckily, the first part is probably going to be what you instinctively do anyway. The second part means making sure nothing is on fire, putting anything on fire out, and then getting away from the smoke until it has a chance to settle, because you don't really want to breathe that. It could well be more hazardous than diacetyl.

About the video posted above- I don't know what the batteries in that video were, but my guess is that they were ICR batteries (batteries based on Cobalt, basically.) The batteries you're using are INR batteries (based on a combination of Manganese and Nickel,) and are sometimes called "safe chemistry" batteries. This is a bit of misnomer, as you don't want to be around any venting battery, but I wouldn't expect them to vent quite _that_ spectacularly. I don't spend enough time around venting batteries to be on a first-name basis with them though, so take that with a grain of salt. (This distinction is also one of many reasons you don't want to go fishing for vape batteries in old laptop battery packs, unless you really know what you're doing, and probably even then.)

About explosions- if I take a small heap of gunpowder and light it on top of, say, a metal plate, what I will wind up with is essentially a violent fire. If I take that same heap of gunpowder and put it in a strong sealed enclosure I will have a primitive hand grenade. I don't want to be very near either, but one is far more dangerous than the other. This is why batteries "vent". They are designed to do so. They don't, on their own, really explode, if they vent adequately (though in extreme cases this might be a fine distinction.)

When we put batteries in mods we are putting them in enclosures, and we want to be sure those enclosures can "vent." This is _very_ likely to be the case with any popular commercial mod you buy these days. When you hear about people blowing their faces off... well, there was one incident in particular I think gave rise to that phrase, and IIRC

1) The mod was homemade (and of course unregulated,) and lacked any venting to speak of, and

2) The batteries involved were a very bad choice for the application. The batteries were also stacked in series, which is not inherently dangerous, but does require some precautions that, given the rest of the story, I'm not sure he took.

In other words, his situation and yours are miles apart, and while I have nothing but sympathy for him he did quite a lot of inadvisable things.

Note that there are a _lot_ of people out there vaping:

Many of them have no real idea that the equipment they're handling can be dangerous, and do remarkably foolish things with it, day after day, for years. For a tiny percentage of them, every once in a great while, something goes spectacularly wrong. Then we hear about it not only on the news but endlessly from friends, neighbors, and busybodies (but I repeat myself,) convinced we will shoot our eye out. For all that, most of these incidents end with minor property damage.

As Opinionated so eloquently pointed out, life is full of risk. Bad things sometimes happen, sometimes even when we have taken more precautions than were actually justified to avoid them. As long as you are even moderately cautious your batteries are likely going to be a lot less risky than lots of areas of your life you take for granted.

Toward that end, here are a couple of tips I didn't see above (but might have missed due to skimming) and a repeat or two:

- Buy batteries suitable for your application from a reputable source.

- Given your usage the charger is the place your batteries are most likely to vent. Use a decent charger, stay close while charging, and don't store or transport your batteries in the charger.

- This isn't really battery specific, but you do have a fire extinguisher or two on hand, right? If not- well worrying about batteries in that case is like worrying about whether you get enough anti-oxidants when you smoke a pack a day.

- Store and transport your batteries in a battery case. Don't ever put a battery in your pocket, and don't ever put one in a container with any loose metal objects... like change, for instance.

- Your battery's wraps are not just cosmetic (and if they came with aesthetically appealing wraps they are more than likely not very good batteries.) Take care not to damage them, inspect them regularly, and don't use or charge a battery if its wraps are damaged. Wraps are cheap, and it's easy to rewrap batteries.

And most of all... keep calm and carry on.
 

GrowthCurve

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I made an attempt at a dual coil build on a mech mod. The atty was a cheap clone. In the process the positive post insulator on the atty melted, creating a short.

I discovered this malfunction IMMEDIATELY--as holding the mod was like holding a curling iron by the barrel. I quickly unscrewed the mod and flung the battery onto the floor. Battery did not vent, but i disposed of it. So you will know immediately if there is an issue with a short.

@HauntedMyst --i am a Buckeye, and when i read your post, i pronounced Louvre as
'Loo-ver' in my head. Prooves that we're CHICK here in 'flyover country'
 
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Eskie

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- Buy batteries suitable for your application from a reputable source.

- Given your usage the charger is the place your batteries are most likely to vent. Use a decent charger, stay close while charging, and don't store or transport your batteries in the charger.

- This isn't really battery specific, but you do have a fire extinguisher or two on hand, right? If not- well worrying about batteries in that case is like worrying about whether you get enough anti-oxidants when you smoke a pack a day.

One more small thing to remember is if you are going to have a fire extinguisher as a just in case specifically for batteries, make sure it's a Class D extinguisher (most aren't). Or, in place of that, the inexpensive lots of salt or a bucket of sand method to smother it. And unless it's a planned event, use your phone for the video only AFTER you smother it.
 

go_player

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And unless it's a planned event, use your phone for the video only AFTER you smother it.

While I agree that this is probably the most conservative choice, and certainly the best advice for beginners, I do think that for the experienced venter it comes down in the end to individual risk tolerance, number of Youtube followers, and perhaps most importantly, whether the venter in question was born before or after 1988. Proximity of drapes is also a factor I'd likely take into consideration. You should certainly only do what you're comfortable with, but I'd just like to point out that many venters have been filming first/smothering later with great success, for years.

There was one guy whose house burnt down, but it's worth noting that he _had a house_. This is by far the biggest risk factor for having your house burn down, and it's not at all clear to me that his house wouldn't have eventually burnt down anyway. As always, YMMV.

(EDIT: and, though it kills me to do it, this being the Internet I should probably point out that I'm joking.)
 
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