Thanks Hoosier. I feel like a dumb donkey but all this legalize makes my eyes glass over.
Indiana Call to Action - Stop the Monopoly
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Thanks Hoosier. I feel like a dumb donkey but all this legalize makes my eyes glass over.
- Apr 2, 2009
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- Apr 2, 2009
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I'd be shocked if the Indiana government attempted to enforce this law against vapor product consumers in Indiana (unless the consumer is also selling unapproved e-liquid products).
I also think the Indiana government won't be able (and probably won't even attempt) to enforce this law against out-of-state companies that continue to market to Indiana consumers via mail order or the Internet.
But I suspect Indiana will actively enforce this law against all vape shops and other vapor product retailers located in Indiana.
I also think the Indiana government won't be able (and probably won't even attempt) to enforce this law against out-of-state companies that continue to market to Indiana consumers via mail order or the Internet.
But I suspect Indiana will actively enforce this law against all vape shops and other vapor product retailers located in Indiana.
- Apr 2, 2009
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Can someone post a weblink for the state website with the list of e-liquid companies applications that were approved and are pending.
The link provided several pages ago still won't work for me.
The link provided several pages ago still won't work for me.
Bill if you go to the Indiana Alcohol and Tobacco Commission website you can find that info. On the main page, on the left, there is an ATC HOME menu list, choose eliquid. Then on the eliquid page there is a menu on the right, Online Services, choose Tobacco Certificate Search. For profession choose tobacco and for license type choose eliquid manufacturer, that will pull the list up for you.
This letter hits the snail mail on Tuesday, July 5th:
Friday, July 1, 2016
Governor Mike Pence
State of Indiana
101 W. Ohio Street, Suite 1180
Indianapolis, IN 46204
Dear Gov. Pence:
My wife and I are retiring soon. To that end, we made a list of liveabilty criteria and surveyed all 50 states. Indiana had ranked third on the list, but had been our first tentative first choice, since it was reasonably close to Illinois, where we've lived most of our lives. Illinois, by the way, ranked 48th.
Then the Indiana State Legislature passed, and you signed into law, HB 1432, which regulates manufacture and sale of eliquids for vapers.
Gov. Pence, this law puts total lie to your supposed conservative credentials with regard to Big Government over-regulation. It also is one of the most egregious examples of corrupt crony capitalism I've come across in many a year.
Illinois legislators will be studying HB 1432 for years to learn how to become even more mendacious than they already are.
Congratulations, sir! By the stroke of your pen, Indiana dropped below the middle on our list of liveable states.
Sincerely yours,
Xxxxxx Xxxxxxx
Friday, July 1, 2016
Governor Mike Pence
State of Indiana
101 W. Ohio Street, Suite 1180
Indianapolis, IN 46204
Dear Gov. Pence:
My wife and I are retiring soon. To that end, we made a list of liveabilty criteria and surveyed all 50 states. Indiana had ranked third on the list, but had been our first tentative first choice, since it was reasonably close to Illinois, where we've lived most of our lives. Illinois, by the way, ranked 48th.
Then the Indiana State Legislature passed, and you signed into law, HB 1432, which regulates manufacture and sale of eliquids for vapers.
Gov. Pence, this law puts total lie to your supposed conservative credentials with regard to Big Government over-regulation. It also is one of the most egregious examples of corrupt crony capitalism I've come across in many a year.
Illinois legislators will be studying HB 1432 for years to learn how to become even more mendacious than they already are.
Congratulations, sir! By the stroke of your pen, Indiana dropped below the middle on our list of liveable states.
Sincerely yours,
Xxxxxx Xxxxxxx
TUVM, zoiDman. BTW, everything in that letter is true, except Indiana had tentatively gone off our "top three," when HB 1432 had first been announced. But Pence's signature was the final nail in the coffin.
I was listening to a radio broadcast last night on Smokefreeradio.com and learned something about that motion to intervene by the six that nobody seems to know about. I certainly hadn't heard about it. It would be all over these news articles that have been slamming the monopoly if the true intent of that bond was known.
Apparently that bond request wasn't just the 6 asking for damages if the preliminary injunction were to be approved. The ultimate goal of that bond request was much worse. If the judge had granted that request for bond and granted the preliminary injunction the preliminary injunction wouldn't go into affect until after the multimillion dollar bond was paid. I had no idea things worked that way! Their intent was to make sure vape shops in this state closed or became dependent on the six before these lawsuits became settled.
They truly are intent on completely controlling the vape industry in this state and are willing to completely crush anyone in their way.
P.S. they are doing the same thing now with the Goodcat case.
Apparently that bond request wasn't just the 6 asking for damages if the preliminary injunction were to be approved. The ultimate goal of that bond request was much worse. If the judge had granted that request for bond and granted the preliminary injunction the preliminary injunction wouldn't go into affect until after the multimillion dollar bond was paid. I had no idea things worked that way! Their intent was to make sure vape shops in this state closed or became dependent on the six before these lawsuits became settled.
They truly are intent on completely controlling the vape industry in this state and are willing to completely crush anyone in their way.
P.S. they are doing the same thing now with the Goodcat case.
The law gives the approved companies the right to file a civil suit against a company that violates their cartel to recover any losses. So, the government doesn't need to enforce it. The cartel will enforce it for them.
Hoosier, I just wanted to say thank you to you, Evan, Amy Lane from smokefree radio, and all the key players who have spent countless hours fighting this war on the front lines for us. I follow Hoosier Vapers on FB and look eagerly for their posts everyday to stay on top of whats going on. Evans live FB reports after each new skirmish are so helpful in understanding the fundamentals of this whole mess.
For various reasons, I haven't been able to attend any of the rallies, but I have done what I can through letters, emails and phone calls to add my voice, and I will most definitely be taking a stance on election day in November.
Again I just wanted to thank you. For those that don't follow it closely I don't think they have any idea how much you and your small army have sacrificed to fight this war.
For various reasons, I haven't been able to attend any of the rallies, but I have done what I can through letters, emails and phone calls to add my voice, and I will most definitely be taking a stance on election day in November.
Again I just wanted to thank you. For those that don't follow it closely I don't think they have any idea how much you and your small army have sacrificed to fight this war.
The day after the law was passed in Arkansas, most every eliquid vendor I ever dealt with already had notices up on their site that they would not ship to us.
Even the ones who don't have notices have their shopping carts set to not letting you check out.....you can put the stuff in your cart, but when you go to check out, it won't let you.
Even for a few hardware orders, I had to phone vendors and get them to put a manual order thru (cart contained no eliquid of course.)
Is there something different in the law in Indiana that would keep vendors shipping there, unlike how they've done to Arkansas vapers?
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Bill, I also noticed that in several responses about this on the internet, you kept invoking "Obama's FDA"....
Of interest, the laws passed against ordering eliquid online (not face to face sales) had nothing whatsoever to do with the FDA.
It was a law passed at the state level, the bill was sponsored by a Republican(s) and then signed into law by our governor, Asa Hutchinson, also a Republican.
None of this has anything to do with the FDA. I believe it has to do with our state wanting the tax money and which will get voted on 2 years from the date that online sales were banned.
I was just wondering why you keep invoking Obama's name when individual states pass laws. Obviously, you are trying to get your politics out there, but I can't quite see what Obama had to do with laws that were passed in Arkansas, and now Indiana, by Republicans at the local level.
So the gov of Indiana, Pence, a Republican, is doing this because of Obama? Confused..............
Of interest, the laws passed against ordering eliquid online (not face to face sales) had nothing whatsoever to do with the FDA.
It was a law passed at the state level, the bill was sponsored by a Republican(s) and then signed into law by our governor, Asa Hutchinson, also a Republican.
None of this has anything to do with the FDA. I believe it has to do with our state wanting the tax money and which will get voted on 2 years from the date that online sales were banned.
I was just wondering why you keep invoking Obama's name when individual states pass laws. Obviously, you are trying to get your politics out there, but I can't quite see what Obama had to do with laws that were passed in Arkansas, and now Indiana, by Republicans at the local level.
So the gov of Indiana, Pence, a Republican, is doing this because of Obama? Confused..............
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No, there's not, it clearly states they can't ship to us, and can be fined big time if they do. How strictly they'll enforce it doesn't matter, I don't see any out of state shops being willing to risk fines and penalties to ship a box of eliquid to Indiana. So I assume that, like Arkansas, we will see the notices and have our carts "locked" if we try to order. I started to DIY a few weeks ago in preparation for this, but it would be nice if DIY was a choice, and not a necessity
I've asked this repeatedly, and I've never gotten a good answer: How does a state like Indiana or Arkansas go about fining a business that's not located within their state? Let's say I have an e-liquid business in some other state, e.g. Florida (I do not, this is hypothetical). A customer in Indiana orders from me on my website. Legally the transaction takes place here in FL, as evidenced by the fact that I do not have to collect Indiana sales tax. How/why is this transaction subject to Indiana law?No, there's not, it clearly states they can't ship to us, and can be fined big time if they do. How strictly they'll enforce it doesn't matter, I don't see any out of state shops being willing to risk fines and penalties to ship a box of eliquid to Indiana. So I assume that, like Arkansas, we will see the notices and have our carts "locked" if we try to order. I started to DIY a few weeks ago in preparation for this, but it would be nice if DIY was a choice, and not a necessity
States have the right to regulate how business is conducted in their state.
you play by the rules or don't play.
Having said that if Indiana's law is to be overturned it will be because they
became to greedy. In their quest to monopolize e-liquid manufacture and
sales within their state they managed to alienate the rest of the USA and
by extension the world. I do not think Dekang would qualify.
Thus one could say the security requirements do nothing to regulate the
industry they ban 99.99% of the industry from doing business there.
many of these businesses can prove hands down their facilities and processes
meet and in most cases far exceed anything in Indiana at this time.
@Racehorse would know but I believe that in Arkansas if you meet the
requirements your good to go. Of course this might only be marginally
better.
Regards
Mike
Need a Lawyer to probably give you the Best Answer to your question.
But I believe as soon as the Package crosses the Indiana State Line, the Violation has occurred. And the Violation occurred in Indiana.
Could be Way Off on this. But that is how I Understand it.
Again, my (hypothetical) shop is in FL. I'm not conducting business in Indiana. I'm conducting business in FL.
OK, let's presume an Indiana court decides that I have violated Indiana law despite never having set foot in the state. What ability do they have to enforce any sanction on me?
I'm not sure what they can legally do to a vendor in another state at this point. It's not just vapor products that states have this issue with. I tried to do some quick searches to see what I could find and the best corollary I could find were for online cigarette sales and I read one article from Michigan where the tax board subpoenaed sales records from online retailers. That was to go after the consumers who failed to pay the correct taxes though.
Your conducting business in both states.If your customer came to you it would be different.
In as much as Indiana passed these regulations in the consideration of the health and safety
of its citizens and the chillin', you are obliged to follow them in order to do business there.
It's not as if they were banning anything.(
)Regards
Mike
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