Industry Concerns

[BuzzKill]

It really comes down to RESPONSIBLE MFG of whatever product you are making !

there are some that will be responsible and there are others that will not be , there is no real trade org. that tracks these things ECF happens to be the best place to find out who is GOOD and who is BAD in this market.

the rest of it I will leave to you guys

 

[shanagan]

LOL at juicers.

It's my belief that if we could work on the trade association angle first, the rest would follow.

Just so this is crystal clear - when I say trade association I mean just that - a group of members within the trade. I'm not even talking about some regulatory body - I'm talking about if Joe's juice Shack and Crystal's PV Emporium got together with Lanie's Lanyards to form a group.

 

[LynGBH]

there are some that will be responsible and there are others that will not be , there is no real trade org. that tracks these things ECF happens to be the best place to find out who is GOOD and who is BAD in this market.

Unfortunately, people no longer feel comfortable posting a negative review of some vendors. The reviewer ends up being bullied by the devotees and/or undisclosed employees and/or owner of these suppliers. I'm not sure why they're allowed to get away with this sort of thing, but they do...and the intimidation seems to work.

On the other hand, most suppliers tend to take care of problems in a speedy, respectful manner.

Even so, the "Review" section is still not a reliable resource at this point.

 

[Sdh]

Diacetyl - Toxipedia

 

[Sdh]

Unfortunately, people no longer feel comfortable posting a negative review of some vendors. The reviewer ends up being bullied by the devotees and/or undisclosed employees and/or owner of the suppliers involved. I'm not sure why they're allowed to get away with this sort of thing, but they do...and the intimidation seems to work.

The "Review" section is not a reliable resource at this point.

I agree with you. I have posted my views. I have seen those folks dance around these forums ready to pounce. No, I will not be intiminated at this point. I looked at the whos visiting my page and guess who....a major devotee...
I would think this issue would relate to industry concern as well.

Fabrication, diversion, and diactyl do not mix....just my two cents.

 

[GoodDog]

Fabrication, diversion, and diactyl do not mix....just my two cents.

That's a recipe and it has a name but I can't mention it here. LOL

 

[JonnyVapΣ]

Unfortunately, people no longer feel comfortable posting a negative review of some vendors. The reviewer ends up being bullied by the devotees and/or undisclosed employees and/or owner of the suppliers involved. I'm not sure why they're allowed to get away with this sort of thing, but they do...and the intimidation seems to work.

The "Review" section is not a reliable resource at this point.

Well...that's only one aspect. The other is ECF moderators closing threads when things get a bit "heated". Who cares about personal attacks. Nobody knows who they're attacking personally anyway so why does it matter? And to those looking for some kind of reputation on an anonymous forum....really? I mean....really? I know some people tend to literally live on ECF but cmon now. Sticks and stones...stick and stones.

Or is to keep up some kind of false sense of "we're better than the other forums"? They need to ease up on the reigns a bit and let people hash out their opinions be it "a bit immature" or as adults. And last I checked....we should all be adults here. Even out of the immature back-and-forth type threads some very good and useful information has been squeezed out. Good info is good info. Sometimes that's how things get done. If people really want self-regulation then it isn't going to happen here. Not the way things are currently handled. Sometimes people need to get a little personal, especially when false information is getting thrown around. Sometimes people's feelings will get hurt. So what? If they're in the right they'll come out on top. If not, just the opposite. All part of self regulation. It's not all warm and fuzzy all the time.

 

[DC2]

Well...that's only one aspect. The other is ECF moderators closing threads when things get a bit "heated". Who cares about personal attacks. Nobody knows who they're attacking personally anyway so why does it matter? And to those looking for some kind of reputation on an anonymous forum....really? I mean....really? I know some people tend to literally live on ECF but cmon now. Sticks and stones...stick and stones.

Or is to keep up some kind of false sense of "we're better than the other forums"? They need to ease up on the reigns a bit and let people hash out their opinions be it "a bit immature" or as adults. And last I checked....we should all be adults here. Even out of the immature back-and-forth type threads some very good and useful information has been squeezed out. Good info is good info. Sometimes that's how things get done. If people really want self-regulation then it isn't going to happen here. Not the way things are currently handled. Sometimes people need to get a little personal, especially when false information is getting thrown around. Sometimes people's feelings will get hurt. So what? If they're in the right they'll come out on top. If not, just the opposite. All part of self regulation. It's not all warm and fuzzy all the time.

I disagree, and completely support the way this forum is run.

I have been on other forums where things get personal, and almost inevitably such forums become cliquish and useless.
And that is being nice, because really they often become horrible places to be.

This forum aims to be a friendly place where good information can be found.
And you hear people saying how wonderful it is every single day.

It is the fault of those who can't control themselves that potentially useful threads are closed, not the other way around.

 

[ScottB]

Well...that's only one aspect. The other is ECF moderators closing threads when things get a bit "heated". Who cares about personal attacks. Nobody knows who they're attacking personally anyway so why does it matter? And to those looking for some kind of reputation on an anonymous forum....really? I mean....really? I know some people tend to literally live on ECF but cmon now. Sticks and stones...stick and stones.

Or is to keep up some kind of false sense of "we're better than the other forums"? They need to ease up on the reigns a bit and let people hash out their opinions be it "a bit immature" or as adults. And last I checked....we should all be adults here. Even out of the immature back-and-forth type threads some very good and useful information has been squeezed out. Good info is good info. Sometimes that's how things get done. If people really want self-regulation then it isn't going to happen here. Not the way things are currently handled. Sometimes people need to get a little personal, especially when false information is getting thrown around. Sometimes people's feelings will get hurt. So what? If they're in the right they'll come out on top. If not, just the opposite. All part of self regulation. It's not all warm and fuzzy all the time.

I disagree, and completely support the way this forum is run.

I have been on other forums where things get personal, and almost inevitably such forums become cliquish and useless.
And that is being nice, because really they often become horrible places to be.

This forum aims to be a friendly place where good information can be found.
And you hear people saying how wonderful it is every single day.

It is the fault of those who can't control themselves that potentially useful threads are closed, not the other way around.

I'm somewhere in the middle. There are limitations of expression in the typewritten world - and no amount of smilies usage can fix it. If you type-speak directly it's often misinterpreted and if you .....foot around then you don't come across as having the strength of your convictions. Either way all it takes is one "misinterpretation" to escalate quickly into forum warfare. I refer now to my signature...




But anyway, I'm glad someone "in the trade" popped in. It helps lead me in to the futility of our group trying to influence the formation of a trade group. They're competitors first & foremost. There has to be a awfully big potential benefit available for someone to take the time & $$$$ to organize, solicit, administer, solicit, solicit, solicit... The bigger players in Asia aren't going to play together at this point. A couple are involved in lawsuits - without help or support from their competitors. After these suits are over, it'll be easer to peg the "price of poker", but odds are very good that rules will be in place resulting from the suits.

And if the big players aren't interested, the little players would be absolutley wasting their time...

 

[FreakyStylie]

There is an eternal difference between thinking and doing. Thinking is merely worry, and somebody once said something about worry being a futile thing, in the way a rocking chair keeps you busy, but it doesn't get you anywhere.

I had gotten excited, but it appears that I was wrong to have. I hate soap operas, wake me when Fight Club comes on.

 

[kpax]

Being banned in Hong Kong doesn't help either. In fact this may be why so many other countries are now banning ecigs. Hong Kong is where Runyan is based. The black market in China is dangerous enough for legal products.....they are known for lead, poison toothpaste etc.

Worldwide there is a perception that since ecigs are banned in Hong Hong the black marketers have taken over and who knows what will be shipped to their countries.

 

[GoodDog]

Yeah FreakyStylie, I was hopeful that this thread would lead to something positive. The new people interested in industry change and accountability made me feel the hope wasn't lost, but I'm not so sure. How can we band together for the good of the industry? I know I am to blame for getting irritated and not always keeping my cool, but I try to get back on track. I'm frustrated and I know it shows, but my intentions are good. And I know that is the same for the others that have tried to make members aware of changes we should look at BEFORE the FDA makes us. I just don't know.

 

[kpax]

There is an eternal difference between thinking and doing. Thinking is merely worry, and somebody once said something about worry being a futile thing, in the way a rocking chair keeps you busy, but it doesn't get you anywhere.

I had gotten excited, but it appears that I was wrong to have. I hate soap operas, wake me when Fight Club comes on.

Freakystylie: You have some really good ideas. Please keep your optimism. I've seen Fight Club too many times

People think their freedoms are being eroded in the US.The fact that Ecigs have not been banned here and they have been banned in so many countries, including Thailand (the child prostitution capital???) says a lot. That's because we are ruled by a courts of law and things get debated there. Just like here on ECF. All the more reason for a good group of people to get together to keep the industry SAFE. Someway, somehow.

 

[shanagan]

C'mon, FS, I know you remember the first rule of Fight Club! So ignore the drama. Focus on what we CAN change, in a positive ripple-effect kind of way.

 

[Vagablonde]

Atomizer design needs to flatten variability in lifespan & performance and manufacturers need to emphasize quality production methods to ensure this. This is the biggest single problem I see. Of course, I'm a 6Sigma & Lean Manufacturing guy... so yeah, of course this is what I see.

Other parts needing work:

-Juice Vendors need to certify that their stuff is diacetyl free on their websites. (edited to replace diethyl with correct chemical)

-Batteries need to be developed specifically with vaping in mind so we don't have to stack to get a good voltage.

-E-Cigarette as a name needs to be mothballed. We are vapers who use a personal vaporizer. Not smokers who use an electronic cigarette. This is critical if we want to be heard/protected in the coming months. Big tobacco is banking on us being smokers and therefore easy to demonize/criticize/etc.

-Juice Vendors need to certify that their stuff is diacetyl free on their websites. (edited to replace diethyl with correct chemical)

I just have to ask why this doesn't concern other variables in ejuice
for instance..if a juice is sold as 100% VG..it should NOT contain any PG in its flavorings.
or disclose this information ,It should be available on all websites.
and this idea as x smokers we took risks to smoke and shouldnt have any because we vape is simple nonsense..when I started to vape I had no idea whatsoever nothing was regulated.
so much for the safer alternative

 

[wv2win]

Yeah FreakyStylie, I was hopeful that this thread would lead to something positive. The new people interested in industry change and accountability made me feel the hope wasn't lost, but I'm not so sure. How can we band together for the good of the industry? I know I am to blame for getting irritated and not always keeping my cool, but I try to get back on track. I'm frustrated and I know it shows, but my intentions are good. And I know that is the same for the others that have tried to make members aware of changes we should look at BEFORE the FDA makes us. I just don't know.

A wise man once said: The path to hell (FDA) is paved with "good intentions".

 

[Traver]

This is all very interesting but what happened to actually creating a consumer association?

 

[Traver]

OK, I' hearing a resounding silence. Let's try something else. Can anyone come up with two things that we can do now? They should be benefit both the venders and consumers.

 

[5cardstud]

Just wanted to make sure I got a post in before it was too late.


Having said that, I think it is pretty clear that makers of juice need to get more professional in their approach.
If they don't do it themselves, the FDA is going to do it for them, that is a guarantee.

I agree and think they need some kind of standards set that they all have to abide to. That would put them on a more even keel and help us consumers. I'm not too worried about diacetyl as I've been consuming it without any repercussions for a very, very long time but I am concerned about all the chemicals that go into the products I consume.

 

[FieryOne]

OK, I' hearing a resounding silence. Let's try something else. Can anyone come up with two things that we can do now? They should be benefit both the venders and consumers.

Hi Traver, I've participated in various discussions and have compiled this list:

Dear vendor letter suggested earlier sent to vendors on behalf of and signed by petition of ecf members.
2. Ask ECF to post a sticky in all forums regarding the caution about diacetyl so that it will be available.
3. Petition flavor manufacturers to change their formula.
4. Form a consumer group.
5. Patronize suppliers that support your position regarding disclosure of e-liquid contents.
6. Suppliers Trade organization.
7. take donations for private testing
Please add...Let's start taking action.

I started with trying to get a letter posted as a sticky. You could help by going to this thread http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-discussion/130120-do-you-agree-disagree.html and posting.

thanks!