is big tobacco intentionally making bad e-cigs?

[diggyb]

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. If they put a bunch of harmful **** in cigarettes - why would they blush at putting it in ejuice - even if only temporarily to scare the masses into regulating the crap out of it.

The negative studies that have come out - didn't they come from tests on the BT owned brands?

 

[Uncle Willie]

Once BT have 'milked' the niavity of 'new switchers' Willy then they will have to shift their game- yes cig-a-likes outstrip sales figures-this is still an emerging technology-but how many return sales will cig-a-likes get when the 'tipping point' is reached, as has been stated before these products are NOT nearly as good as eGo style for conversion rates of smokers, in fact if they were stood side by side on a graph of 'test subjects' in a trial-which ones do you think would be thrown back on the table ? eGo or cig-a-like Willie ?

I have no doubt, if there are no major roadblocks placed due to regulation, BT will continue to R&D the PV and incrementally improve the tech as time goes by ..

My point is, and I'm an example of this, is the cig-a-like for me was the "gateway device" ..

However, the popularity of the cig-a-like is based on not just the quality of the goodness .. it's also based on the form factor, easy availability, convenience, familiarity and advertising ..

Hopefully, it will get some to move toward the "good stuff" .. but the populace at large is swayed by these other reasons very easily ..

Sad, but that's just the way it is ..

 

[Criticalmass]

They are playing catch up. My understanding is that as recently as 6 months ago Phillip Morris supposedly had no interest in the E-cig market. My thing is, why would you buy from them? They have such a great record for health and safety right? These are the people who spent hundreds of millions on R&D to make the cigarette more addictive.

 

[Uncle Willie]

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything. If they put a bunch of harmful **** in cigarettes - why would they blush at putting it in ejuice - even if only temporarily to scare the masses into regulating the crap out of it.

The negative studies that have come out - didn't they come from tests on the BT owned brands?

OK, let me break it down for you .. BT shells out $206 Billion in tobacco settlement money .. based on them knowing by their own research and withholding the information

Why would they then intentionally taint e-liquid and face further financial penalty .. ?? It makes no sense .. these are shareholder owned companies .. trust me, the CEO's don't want to dig their own grave ..

 

[Dave_in_OK]

Is BT intentionally making bad e-cigs? No their just going after there target market. Is their product inferior to what most of us here use? If you want flavor TH and to save money then yes. If you want easy of use, the look and feel of what smokers are a custom to, and disposable then no.

 

[Uncle Willie]

They are playing catch up. My understanding is that as recently as 6 months ago Phillip Morris supposedly had no interest in the E-cig market. My thing is, why would you buy from them? They have such a great record for health and safety right? These are the people who spent hundreds of millions on R&D to make the cigarette more addictive.

Like I said .. form factor, easy availability, convenience, familiarity and advertising ..

People continued to smoke analogs long after it was clear they were bad on many levels .. the smoker is an addict .. although we here on ECF may not buy from "them" .. (although many do) .. the guy dropping into the 7-11 that sees a BLU display and wants to try and quit the analogs is buying from "them" .. big time ..

 

[diggyb]

OK, let me break it down for you .. BT shells out $206 Billion in tobacco settlement money .. based on them knowing by their own research and withholding the information

Why would they then intentionally taint e-liquid and face further financial penalty .. ?? It makes no sense .. these are shareholder owned companies .. trust me, the CEO's don't want to dig their own grave ..

That's not helping - I still don't understand.

In the settlement, they agree to changes about their marketing practices, right?

There are thousands of chemicals in cigarettes today - a great number of which are put there intentionally by tobacco companies to "improve" their product. If they are allowed to do that to cigarettes - why would they hesitate to do it to juice?

I don't need a tinfoil hat or anything - it was just a statement/idea I put out there. The continued conversation is due to my not understanding what you seem to think is preposterous about it.

 

[Uncle Willie]

That's not helping - I still don't understand.

In the settlement, they agree to changes about their marketing practices, right?

There are thousands of chemicals in cigarettes today - a great number of which are put there intentionally by tobacco companies to "improve" their product. If they are allowed to do that to cigarettes - why would they hesitate to do it to juice?

I don't need a tinfoil hat or anything - it was just a statement/idea I put out there. The continued conversation is due to my not understanding what you seem to think is preposterous about it.

In simple terms .. the Tobacco Settlement was based on HIDING the information .. The states alleged a wide range of deceptive and fraudulent practices by the tobacco companies over decades of sales, thus eventually winning the settlement ..

So, to suggest that BT would intentionally take the same road with their PV product would open them up to the same litigation .. especially now in a climate where the PV is under such scrutiny ..

 

[fourthrok]

Also, don't they realize that cartomizers are nearly obsolete?

I seriously hope not!!!! I use carto tanks pretty much exclusively now. So does my husband. We've both been vaping for quite awhile, and have tried lots of things from dripping atties to RBAs to clearomizers and so forth. We prefer carto tanks. I know LOTS of people who use them here on ECF. While the carto all alone attached to a cig-a-like is not the most popular thing here on ECF...there are plenty of people who don't hang out here who do use them.

They'be better not be going "obsolete". That would be a very BAD thing for many many many people!! (I can't STAND clearomizers!!)

 

[Uncle Willie]

I seriously hope not!!!! I use carto tanks pretty much exclusively now. So does my husband. We've both been vaping for quite awhile, and have tried lots of things from dripping atties to RBAs to clearomizers and so forth. We prefer carto tanks. I know LOTS of people who use them here on ECF. While the carto all alone attached to a cig-a-like is not the most popular thing here on ECF...there are plenty of people who don't hang out here who do use them.

They'be better not be going "obsolete". That would be a very BAD thing for many many many people!! (I can't STAND clearomizers!!)

the carto still has a long future ahead of it ..

 

[rhean]

Uncle Willie: Vaping, using ecigs is still unusual. People still smoke, though numbers are in decline in some countries. It is highly unlikely that tobacco products are on the verge of being made illegal. What would BT have to gain from marketing a reliable, inexpensive, convenient, long-lasting vaping device? How would it help them to get a substantial number of smokers to switch to such a device? Companies are rarely saintly or suicidal. They might not be deliberately marketing ineffective, expensive products, but they certainly have little reason (at the moment) to market anything else.

 

[bluecat]

Unless you DIY how do you know what is your liquid? Unless you have it tested at a lab, you really do not.


This was on the packs of smokes I smoked... Pretty much didn't need a list of ingredients to know they were not good for me.

 

[emus]

My old M401 cig-a-like was almost ready for prime time.

Light weight and hands free.

Should they improve on this form factor I would be tempted.

 

[exnihilo]

Speak for yourself son! Cartos are the shiz!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

 

[Iffy]

I think some folk may be confusing cartridges for cartomizers.

 

[Uncle Willie]

Uncle Willie: Vaping, using ecigs is still unusual. People still smoke, though numbers are in decline in some countries. It is highly unlikely that tobacco products are on the verge of being made illegal. What would BT have to gain from marketing a reliable, inexpensive, convenient, long-lasting vaping device? How would it help them to get a substantial number of smokers to switch to such a device? Companies are rarely saintly or suicidal. They might not be deliberately marketing ineffective, expensive products, but they certainly have little reason (at the moment) to market anything else.

Couple of things .. first, analog smoking is on the increase in many Countries outside the USA .. Second, I don't think I ever said analogs would become illegal .. they won't in the foreseeable future IMO ..

Many, including me, assuming there is no drastic regulatory action, believe that the PV may very well be the future of smoking, period .. it would thus benefit BT to continue their R&D and improve on the product .. while we are unlikely to see BT come out with a Provari style in the near future, I believe BT has actively tested / purchased mods that run the gamut of what is out there today .. these are billion dollar corporations that have seen the growth in the PV over the last few years .. they want in on it, they want to control it, they want the business and they are sampling the products that are out there ..

BT may have even ordered from FastTech ..

 

[Caridwen]

In simple terms .. the Tobacco Settlement was based on HIDING the information .. The states alleged a wide range of deceptive and fraudulent practices by the tobacco companies over decades of sales, thus eventually winning the settlement ..

So, to suggest that BT would intentionally take the same road with their PV product would open them up to the same litigation .. especially now in a climate where the PV is under such scrutiny ..

If they put out an inferior product (not tainted), they still aren't going to lose customers- those customers probably won't stick with vaping and will still buy cigarettes. I can't speak for what BT will do, but we do know what they're capable of doing- keeping people hooked on their product by any means necessary.

I don't think they have a love affair with pv's but see the direction this is going and want to keep some control on the market. Even if it's to control what other's are able to sell- which would be unsatisfying e-cigarettes. BT was perfectly capable of getting into the market years ago and had no interest in doing so.

 

[WillyZee]

Cartos will be around for the long haul ... most smokers are not looking to rebuild coils and cloud chase ... they are only looking for a better alternative to smoking.

There are more vapers puffing on Blu eCigs than Provaris ... however, they are not on the forums.

 

[diggyb]

Well if it's good enough for Stephen Dorff, it's good enough for me

 

[Uncle Willie]

If they put out an inferior product (not tainted), they still aren't going to lose customers- those customers probably won't stick with vaping and will still buy cigarettes. I can't speak for what BT will do, but we do know what they're capable of doing- keeping people hooked on their product by any means necessary.

I don't think they have a love affair with pv's but see the direction this is going and want to keep some control on the market. Even if it's to control what other's are able to sell- which would be unsatisfying e-cigarettes. BT was perfectly capable of getting into the market years ago and had no interest in doing so.

If the user drops the PV from BT and buys a pack of analogs, BT wins either way .. maybe that's the master plan ..

BT saw no money in the PV market years ago .. it's a whole different scenario now .. I believe the PV is ultimately a game changer and BT knows it now and wishes they had started earlier ..

I'm not advocating cig-a-likes .. although I do believe they have their place .. had it not been for the NJOY kit I dropped $125.00 on several years ago, I might likely still be puffing a Marlboro right now ..

And on a side note, I find a BLU not to bad .. not as an everyday PV, but it will do if you need something small, readily available, quick and easy ..