Is The Antichist Here Yet?

[Southern Gent]

The classic "turn around and come back" that I have had preached to me but not shown to me is the pre-trib stance. Jesus comes for us and raptures us, "but it's not counted as the return of Christ cause He doesn't "touch down" He just picks us up and brings us to Heaven". "Then", we are in Heaven for 7 years for the wedding feast and come back with Christ for His second coming.

My personal studies haven't been able to cause me to see that picture in the scripture. There is however one factor that makes it hard to fully shake things down and solidly put all of the pieces into their proper places. That is events that overlap chronologically. There are many that with persistent study (or obvious deduction) can be understood where they belong past, present, and future AND their ordinal rank (in order relative to each other I.E. 1st then 2nd). But not all are facts are easily discernible, (I.E 1st, then 3rd while 2nd starts in the middle of 1st and ends at the back end of 5th for example).

and all this pre-post-a-bimill-hc-preterist-is all based on where one perceives/what chapter the future starts. Study them all, learn the history of the people John was writing to & about and make an educated decision from there. When it ends it ends...IMO trying to figure out signs is a waste of my time. Be ready yourself and try to bring as many with you as you can..that's what Jesus said to do.

 

[eHuman]

Be ready yourself and try to bring as many with you as you can..that's what Jesus said to do.

I'd be hard pressed to believe that anyone that conciders themselves as a Christian of any denomination wouldn't agree with that statement 100%. I think that's the best example of cutting-to-the-bottom-line in this whole thread.

 

[chimney55]

I'd be hard pressed to believe that anyone that conciders themselves as a Christian of any denomination wouldn't agree with that statement 100%. I think that's the best example of cutting-to-the-bottom-line in this whole thread.

I have to agree!

 

[Jason_in_nc]

Yeah. I don't think any of us have our understanding of the end times exactly right. The disciples didn't get what was happening in their day even with Jesus telling them. They didn't understand until it happened. I imagine we will be much the same.

 

[eHuman]

Yeah. I don't think any of us have our understanding of the end times exactly right. The disciples didn't get what was happening in their day even with Jesus telling them. They didn't understand until it happened. I imagine we will be much the same.

And recall that John wrote Revalation after most everyone else had died. It's not lost on me that they were privy to much that was not written down, but as far as written scripture, we have more than they did. Ever wonder about some of the unwritten stories that John elluded to?

John 21:25
And there are also many other things which Jesus did, which if they were written in detail, I suppose that even the world itself would not contain the books that would be written.

God only included in the Bible what was necessary to bring faith, but there are untold stories that would blow us away if we heard them.

 

[chimney55]

God only included in the Bible what was necessary to bring faith, but there are untold stories that would blow us away if we heard them.

And someday, we will hear them. yeah!!

 

[CartHeadMod]

But, JMHO, I don't think that He and the raptured saints will be stuck in the clouds with Him until His second coming.

what I'm trying to figure out is why you think his coming back isn't the second coming.....

 

[chimney55]

what I'm trying to figure out is why you think his coming back isn't the second coming.....

Because it say that we will meet Him in the clouds. It does not say there that His foot will set down on earth. It does not talk about His sign being in the Heaven for the whole world to see. It does not say that He will be riding on a white horse or that He will have His robe dipped in blood.

 

[Southern Gent]

He has to come twice for the Darby dispensation to work....right?

 

[CartHeadMod]

Because it say that we will meet Him in the clouds. It does not say there that His foot will set down on earth. It does not talk about His sign being in the Heaven for the whole world to see. It does not say that He will be riding on a white horse or that He will have His robe dipped in blood.

it also doesn't say he avoids stepping on the ground, turns around and goes away again.......but you believe that easy enough......
why not just say, Christ is coming back and leave it at that.....avoids having to make all that stuff up......

I mean seriously, why is this pre-post stuff important to anyone?.....

 

[chimney55]

I mean seriously, why is this pre-post stuff important to anyone?.....

It's not a salvation issue, granted. And I'm going to bow out of this. As for the "pre-post trib stuff", it's really not important to the Christian's salvation, but if someone is going to wait at least 7 years before witnessing to that next door neighbor or family member until they get up the courage, it'll make a difference to the other person.

Like I said, I'm going to bow out of this thread.

 

[blondeambition3]

I mean seriously, why is this pre-post stuff important to anyone?.....

Because our souls won't rest until we see Him again...

 

[CartHeadMod]

Because our souls won't rest until we see Him again...

we're going to see him when he comes back or when we die.....if we're going to be with him when he comes back what difference does it make to us if he comes back once or twice or a dozen times and whether there's ten seconds, a thousand years or ten thousand years involved....

I expect there have been well over a thousand books written about this pre-mill, post-mill argument, not to mention the millions of man-hours spent in reading them.....what if all that energy had been exerted taking care of the poor and the sick instead.....

you might almost say the millennium issue is the new Pharisee controversy......

 

[Saintscruiser]

what I'm trying to figure out is why you think his coming back isn't the second coming.....

The difference Cart, is that when we meet Him in the air, His feet never touch the surface of the earth. The 2nd Coming, not only will every eye see, but He will come down, on His horse and when He touches the mountain, it splits in two. He will physically touch the earth and take control! What a glorious day, yet the blood of His enemies will be as deep ...... up to horses bridles. Have you ever thought about how really deep that is??? That's how many enemies Jesus has and if they are an enemy to Jesus, then they are our enemies as well.

 

[Saintscruiser]

we're going to see him when he comes back or when we die.....if we're going to be with him when he comes back what difference does it make to us if he comes back once or twice or a dozen times and whether there's ten seconds, a thousand years or ten thousand years involved....

I expect there have been well over a thousand books written about this pre-mill, post-mill argument, not to mention the millions of man-hours spent in reading them.....what if all that energy had been exerted taking care of the poor and the sick instead.....

you might almost say the millennium issue is the new Pharisee controversy......

Cart, I think you're making a blanket statement, or at least I hope so. You have no idea how people are working for the Lord. It's a little brashish to say that all the man hours reading/studying or writing books are a waste of time. So studying about end times is a waste? Not in the least. God wanted us to know and understand or it wouldn't be in the Bible. The more you know the more you share AND care. You might want to rethink that position. Are you out taking care of the poor and the sick? Just thought I'd ask.

 

[CartHeadMod]

It's a little brashish to say that all the man hours reading/studying or writing books are a waste of time. So studying about end times is a waste? Not in the least.

tell me how it has benefited humanity?.....

 

[CartHeadMod]

The difference Cart, is that when we meet Him in the air, His feet never touch the surface of the earth. The 2nd Coming, not only will every eye see, but He will come down, on His horse and when He touches the mountain, it splits in two. He will physically touch the earth and take control! What a glorious day, yet the blood of His enemies will be as deep ...... up to horses bridles. Have you ever thought about how really deep that is??? That's how many enemies Jesus has and if they are an enemy to Jesus, then they are our enemies as well.

wow, we certainly look forward to the second coming for different reasons.....

 

[Southern Gent]

tell me how it has benefited humanity?.....

I tend to agree with this. The world went 1,830 years without it. J.N. Darby really had the western mind down pat when he came up with this doctrine.

 

[Saintscruiser]

tell me how it has benefited humanity?.....

Well, why don't you either send a letter or call Billy Graham. He was the 20th century's world wide evangelist, man of God. You can only imagine the souls that were saved because he obeyed God's calling. And, he wrote a bunch of books to explain much of what he preached. But I guess he hasn't helped the world any. It takes donations to help support the crusades. Franklin has started Samaritan's Purse, helping children worldwide. This is just one man. If you ever ask yourself what one man can do....look at Rev. Graham.

Now lets look at the life of Dr. Adrian Rogers. He was a preacher, teacher, author. Since I don't get out much anymore, and even though the man died several years ago, his sermons can still be heard on TBN every Sunday morning, and people are still getting saved. If you don't grasp it when he tells it, then you just don't grasp it.

My point is, the ones who get saved.....radically saved, like me, do what they can. My mom and sister helped out in Love's Kitchen in this city many years ago, and volunteered to deliver meals on wheels. My mom and daddy delivered tapes to the shut ins. Do you really want me to go on and on? How does it help humanity? One soul at a time.

You never answered my question.

 

[Southern Gent]

Well, why don't you either send a letter or call Billy Graham. He was the 20th century's world wide evangelist, man of God. You can only imagine the souls that were saved because he obeyed God's calling. And, he wrote a bunch of books to explain much of what he preached. But I guess he hasn't helped the world any. It takes donations to help support the crusades. Franklin has started Samaritan's Purse, helping children worldwide. This is just one man. If you ever ask yourself what one man can do....look at Rev. Graham.

Now lets look at the life of Dr. Adrian Rogers. He was a preacher, teacher, author. Since I don't get out much anymore, and even though the man died several years ago, his sermons can still be heard on TBN every Sunday morning, and people are still getting saved. If you don't grasp it when he tells it, then you just don't grasp it.

My point is, the ones who get saved.....radically saved, like me, do what they can. My mom and sister helped out in Love's Kitchen in this city many years ago, and volunteered to deliver meals on wheels. My mom and daddy delivered tapes to the shut ins. Do you really want me to go on and on? How does it help humanity? One soul at a time.

You never answered my question.

Are we talking about dispensational doctrine or the gospel? I'm lost here in here somewhere..