Is The Antichist Here Yet?

[chimney55]

20:1-6 is current. This is were we stand and the rest is yet to be.

b. Right wing - believes the book to be inspired of God. Whereas, the left-wing group would place all of Revelation in the past, the right-wing group would make Chapter 20:1-6 "a millennial" and 20:7-21 and 22 still in the future.

Of course this includes much of the "historical background" interpretation as well being accepted.

from my original post

So, during which 1000 year period was Satan bound and then set free for a short time? When and what was the "mark of the beast"? When did the beheaded for Christ come to life and "rule and reign with Christ" for 1000 years? For that matter, when did "rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended"?

 

[blondeambition3]

Who is George Soros?

 

[eHuman]

He's on 2nd.

 

[Jason_in_nc]

George Soros - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The man has his hands in everything. He is certainly a proponent of one world government. Not going all batty conspiracy on you here. But it doesn't take much investigation to find him behind a lot of front groups. He's an uber-leftist and power broker.

AND he sounds like Dracula talking through a Darth Vader helmet. <-- reason enough!

 

[Southern Gent]

So, during which 1000 year period was Satan bound and then set free for a short time? When and what was the "mark of the beast"? When did the beheaded for Christ come to life and "rule and reign with Christ" for 1000 years? For that matter, when did "rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended"?

a. The binding of Satan. 20:1-3
1) The binding. 20:1,2a
a) "An angel coming down from heaven," (cf. 9:1). Strong angel? Cf. 5:2; 18:21. 20:1 "A star from heaven" - fifth trumpet warning. Probably not a star more like 12:4. 1st Woe - internal decay released.
(1) "Having the key of the abyss in his hand," cf. 9:1.
(2) "Having a great chain in his hand."
b) He (angel) laid hold of the dragon He has power over Satan. 20:2a

2) The duration of the binding. 20:2b,3a
a) Bound him for a thousand years. 20:2b
b) Until the thousand years were completed. 20:2b
(1) "Thousand" Absolutely complete.
(2) "Bound" (deo) -- constrained as in 9:14.
(3) Not literal (cf. Psa 50:10; Deut 7:9).
c) The main topic is the binding of Satan. There is no mention of the Jews, or a revival of the Jewish nation. Satan is bound that he might no longer deceive the nations (cf. v. 3).
d) Bound and thrown into abyss then sealed. 20:3a

3) The purpose of the binding. 20:3b
a) "That he should not deceive the nations any longer," (cf. v. 8 where he will gather the nations for a final battle). Cf. 12:9; "frogs" of 16:13,14, 16.
b) "Until thousand years" are complete.
c) "After these things" - released - to gather/deceive another army (cf. 20:7-9 and 2 Thess 2:3-12?). God is in control for He binds and He releases.
d) What is the binding of Satan?
(1) Power of the Christ (Mt 12:26-29; Lk 11:21,22).
(2) Jesus began to spoil Satan's goods in Mt 4:1-11. Satan could not deceive Jesus.
(3) Seventy, by authority of Jesus, overcome demons (Lk 10:17-20).
(4) Those deceived by Satan came (come) to Jesus (Jn 12:20-32).
(5) Power of death rendered powerless by the resurrection of Jesus (Heb 2:14-15; 1 Cor 15; cf. Isa 53:12; Col 2:14, 15).
e) Yet Satan's influence continues in a world that belongs to him (2 Cor 11:14; 2:11; 1 Pet 5:8; 1 Tim 5:15; 1 Thess 2:18).
b. The reign of the righteous. 20:4-6
1) The enthroned ones. 20:4a
a) Does not say that they are on the earth (or still alive? - cf. Eph 2:6). Presently alive - cf. 2:26; 3:21.
b) Martyred dead. "Beheaded" - pepelekismenon, perfect, passive of pelekus - "axe." 20:4a
c) Judgment given to them (cf. Dan 7:26,27 - end of Rome).
2) The resurrected and reigning ones. 20:4b
a) "They came to life" - by overcoming in 2:11; cf. Jn 11:25,26. This is the first resurrection (v. 5).
(1) Zao - to be alive - 1 Thess 5:10; Rev 6:9-11.
(2) Jn 5:24 - spiritual death to life (1 Jn 3:14). "Lived - ezesan -"they did live," constative aorist. "Reign" - ebasileusan - "they did reign," constative aorist.
(3) In contrast to "the rest did not live" of verse 5a. Also constative aorist.
(4) 1 Jn 5:11,12 - they have gained royalty and triumphed.
(5) They did not come to life again.
b) They reigned with Christ for this thousand years of Satan's incarceration.
(1) Rome - last kingdom.
(2) Kingdom of Christ - over all forever.

3) The thousand-year death. 20:5a
a) This part of verse five is parenthetical.
b) "The rest of the dead" - of the dead bodies left on the earth (those of 19:21).
c) These "dead" do not take part in the "first resurrection."
d) These "dead" are not the reigning of v. 4.
e) These "dead" must endure the thousand-year death (implied, first death of v. 6). But they will "come to life," to judgment and eternal torment.
4) The blessedness of the first resurrection. 20:5b,6
a) First resurrection - faithful dead (144,000) for Jesus in verse 4. 20:5b
b) Blessed and holy (priests). 20:6
c) Second death has no power over them (cf. 20:14) - the lake of fire.
d) Reigning with Christ - This does not note the duration of Christ's reign (like being a co-regent).


Number or Mark
a) All are to receive a mark. 13:16
(1) "On their right hand" symbol of industry or work (trade guild).
(2) "Or on their forehead" symbol of thought, life, mind (Philosophy).
b) Counterpart of 144,000 of Rev 3:12; 7:3; 14:1.
c) Those not sealed by the beast are open to persecution.
d) Those not sealed by the beast are open to economic discrimination (cf. 3rd seal of 6:5-6).
4) This earth beast/false prophet is false religion who speaks like Satan and works for the glorification of the sea beast - civil persecuting power - Rome.

 

[blondeambition3]

George Soros - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The man has his hands in everything. He is certainly a proponent of one world government. Not going all batty conspiracy on you here. But it doesn't take much investigation to find him behind a lot of front groups. He's an uber-leftist and power broker.

AND he sounds like Dracula talking through a Darth Vader helmet. <-- reason enough!

Thank you! I'll read this!

 

[CartHeadMod]

Southern Gent, Could you please lay out the A millenialist viewpoint? I don't line up squarely with any of the A-D above.

just as one who is called "a-moral" is described as having no consideration for morals, an "a-millenialist" has no consideration for arguments about the millenium......we don't care if you're pre- or post- or have never heard of a millenium.....our position is that Christ is coming back and we need to make the decision about believing in him or not believing in him....now!......because, as the last 2000 years have shown us most of us are going to die before the second coming and it really doesn't matter when or how he comes back, just that we all will face him, one way or another......personally, I would prefer not to tell him I spent my entire time trying to figure out if he was coming back twice or three times.....

 

[CartHeadMod]

Before Columbus, the majority of people believed that the world was flat--that didn't mean that they were right. Just that a lot of them believed it. (the exception to people believing this were those who were familiar with Jewish scripture which describes the world as an orb or circle suspended on nothing). And I guess I see your question, I think. When it says that we are "caught up...in the clouds" it doesn't mean that Christ is coming directly to set His foot upon earth at that time. That won't happen until at least 7 years later. However, at the second coming, He will actually set His feet down upon the Mount of Olives.

there's nothing in the Bible about "hovering around" and coming back but not actually getting here so he can come again without actually arriving.....where do you get it from?....

 

[CartHeadMod]

The millennium will show that man sins (goes against God) because he wants to, not because someone else tempted them.

uh, you don't need a millennium to know that, it's obvious already....I don't see anywhere in the Bible where we get second chances....we need to choose whether or not we believe......if Christ comes back and you haven't chosen to believe you're screwed....

 

[chimney55]

there's nothing in the Bible about "hovering around" and coming back but not actually getting here so he can come again without actually arriving.....where do you get it from?....

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

At least, that's in MY Bible!

 

[chimney55]

a. The binding of Satan. 20:1-3
1) The binding. 20:1,2a
a) "An angel coming down from heaven," (cf. 9:1). Strong angel? Cf. 5:2; 18:21. 20:1 "A star from heaven" - fifth trumpet warning. Probably not a star more like 12:4. 1st Woe - internal decay released.
(1) "Having the key of the abyss in his hand," cf. 9:1.
(2) "Having a great chain in his hand."
b) He (angel) laid hold of the dragon He has power over Satan. 20:2a

2) The duration of the binding. 20:2b,3a
a) Bound him for a thousand years. 20:2b
b) Until the thousand years were completed. 20:2b
(1) "Thousand" Absolutely complete.
(2) "Bound" (deo) -- constrained as in 9:14.
(3) Not literal (cf. Psa 50:10; Deut 7:9).
c) The main topic is the binding of Satan. There is no mention of the Jews, or a revival of the Jewish nation. Satan is bound that he might no longer deceive the nations (cf. v. 3).
d) Bound and thrown into abyss then sealed. 20:3a

3) The purpose of the binding. 20:3b
a) "That he should not deceive the nations any longer," (cf. v. 8 where he will gather the nations for a final battle). Cf. 12:9; "frogs" of 16:13,14, 16.
b) "Until thousand years" are complete.
c) "After these things" - released - to gather/deceive another army (cf. 20:7-9 and 2 Thess 2:3-12?). God is in control for He binds and He releases.
d) What is the binding of Satan?
(1) Power of the Christ (Mt 12:26-29; Lk 11:21,22).
(2) Jesus began to spoil Satan's goods in Mt 4:1-11. Satan could not deceive Jesus.
(3) Seventy, by authority of Jesus, overcome demons (Lk 10:17-20).
(4) Those deceived by Satan came (come) to Jesus (Jn 12:20-32).
(5) Power of death rendered powerless by the resurrection of Jesus (Heb 2:14-15; 1 Cor 15; cf. Isa 53:12; Col 2:14, 15).
e) Yet Satan's influence continues in a world that belongs to him (2 Cor 11:14; 2:11; 1 Pet 5:8; 1 Tim 5:15; 1 Thess 2:18).
b. The reign of the righteous. 20:4-6
1) The enthroned ones. 20:4a
a) Does not say that they are on the earth (or still alive? - cf. Eph 2:6). Presently alive - cf. 2:26; 3:21.
b) Martyred dead. "Beheaded" - pepelekismenon, perfect, passive of pelekus - "axe." 20:4a
c) Judgment given to them (cf. Dan 7:26,27 - end of Rome).
2) The resurrected and reigning ones. 20:4b
a) "They came to life" - by overcoming in 2:11; cf. Jn 11:25,26. This is the first resurrection (v. 5).
(1) Zao - to be alive - 1 Thess 5:10; Rev 6:9-11.
(2) Jn 5:24 - spiritual death to life (1 Jn 3:14). "Lived - ezesan -"they did live," constative aorist. "Reign" - ebasileusan - "they did reign," constative aorist.
(3) In contrast to "the rest did not live" of verse 5a. Also constative aorist.
(4) 1 Jn 5:11,12 - they have gained royalty and triumphed.
(5) They did not come to life again.
b) They reigned with Christ for this thousand years of Satan's incarceration.
(1) Rome - last kingdom.
(2) Kingdom of Christ - over all forever.

3) The thousand-year death. 20:5a
a) This part of verse five is parenthetical.
b) "The rest of the dead" - of the dead bodies left on the earth (those of 19:21).
c) These "dead" do not take part in the "first resurrection."
d) These "dead" are not the reigning of v. 4.
e) These "dead" must endure the thousand-year death (implied, first death of v. 6). But they will "come to life," to judgment and eternal torment.
4) The blessedness of the first resurrection. 20:5b,6
a) First resurrection - faithful dead (144,000) for Jesus in verse 4. 20:5b
b) Blessed and holy (priests). 20:6
c) Second death has no power over them (cf. 20:14) - the lake of fire.
d) Reigning with Christ - This does not note the duration of Christ's reign (like being a co-regent).


Number or Mark
a) All are to receive a mark. 13:16
(1) "On their right hand" symbol of industry or work (trade guild).
(2) "Or on their forehead" symbol of thought, life, mind (Philosophy).
b) Counterpart of 144,000 of Rev 3:12; 7:3; 14:1.
c) Those not sealed by the beast are open to persecution.
d) Those not sealed by the beast are open to economic discrimination (cf. 3rd seal of 6:5-6).
4) This earth beast/false prophet is false religion who speaks like Satan and works for the glorification of the sea beast - civil persecuting power - Rome.

I can read the verses. You however say that you believe that this has already been accomplished in the past. My question was simply when?

 

[Southern Gent]

I can read the verses. You however say that you believe that this has already been accomplished in the past. My question was simply when?

Let's take the mark just as an example.
Historically happened through the Roman Empire. We know this to be absolute fact. Roman history claims this to be true. The marks and such have already been done. Domitian had required emperor worship. The Christians who refused the mark were basically starved to death. They could neither buy nor sell in the markets on top of the all the other persecutions that were currently taking place. Now the question is: Could these things take place again? Mass persecution of Christians? Certainly it could without question in my opinion. The key to remember is what John said in the beginning of Revelation. These things must shortly come to pass and they did. Rome, the most evil beast ever on this planet had to be eliminated but the people would suffer greatly before it happened.

 

[eHuman]

Been a long time since the study, but it is rational to interpret "mark of the beast on the head or hand" as in "partaking in the works or thoughts/ideas/mentality of the beast. Both the OT and the NT support that idea.

 

[chimney55]

Let's take the mark just as an example.
Historically happened through the Roman Empire. We know this to be absolute fact. Roman history claims this to be true. The marks and such have already been done. Domitian had required emperor worship. The Christians who refused the mark were basically starved to death. They could neither buy nor sell in the markets on top of the all the other persecutions that were currently taking place. Now the question is: Could these things take place again? Mass persecution of Christians? Certainly it could without question in my opinion. The key to remember is what John said in the beginning of Revelation. These things must shortly come to pass and they did. Rome, the most evil beast ever on this planet had to be eliminated but the people would suffer greatly before it happened.

Good point. But, I never said that there haven't been other marks that were similar in function. However, if you read Revelation carefully, it talks about events in the whole world--not just the Roman Empire. Earthquakes that will shake the entire world, not just the Roman Empire. Judgments that will kill 1/4, 1/3, or 1/2 of the world's population--not just the Roman Empire. The book of Revelation speaks of the 2 witness who will be killed.

Revelation 11:8-10

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

Nice maneuver. That's one question down, so I'll remove it and you can answer the others. "So, during which 1000 year period was Satan bound and then set free for a short time? When did the beheaded for Christ come to life and "rule and reign with Christ" for 1000 years? For that matter, when did "rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended"? "

BTW, the "irrelevant" remark came from the tendency to ignore that which you personally can not answer. You see, you preferred not to answer what was clearly marked about Satan, the 1000 years, or the "rest of the dead" coming to life for 1000 years, so to you, it was irrelevant.

 

[CartHeadMod]

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

At least, that's in MY Bible!

it's in mine too.....but you say he turns around and leaves again.....that part isn't in mine.....

 

[CartHeadMod]

However, if you read Revelation carefully

and therein lies the rub.....

 

[chimney55]

there are many, the majority actually, who believe that Christ will simply return and it will be judgment day......we are caught up, meet him, be with him.....the part I don't get is the idea that he turns around and leaves again.....where's that come from?......

it's in mine too.....but you say he turns around and leaves again.....that part isn't in mine.....

Actually, I looked back in my posts. You're the one who brought up the subject of "turning around and leaving again"--not me.
And at the time that I was responding to your posts, I thought that you were a "postie". My mistake. My Bible doesn't say that He turns around and comes back either. But, JMHO, I don't think that He and the raptured saints will be stuck in the clouds with Him until His second coming.

 

[Southern Gent]

Good point. But, I never said that there haven't been other marks that were similar in function. However, if you read Revelation carefully, it talks about events in the whole world--not just the Roman Empire. Earthquakes that will shake the entire world, not just the Roman Empire. Judgments that will kill 1/4, 1/3, or 1/2 of the world's population--not just the Roman Empire. The book of Revelation speaks of the 2 witness who will be killed.

Revelation 11:8-10

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

Nice maneuver. That's one question down, so I'll remove it and you can answer the others. "So, during which 1000 year period was Satan bound and then set free for a short time? When did the beheaded for Christ come to life and "rule and reign with Christ" for 1000 years? For that matter, when did "rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended"? "

BTW, the "irrelevant" remark came from the tendency to ignore that which you personally can not answer. You see, you preferred not to answer what was clearly marked about Satan, the 1000 years, or the "rest of the dead" coming to life for 1000 years, so to you, it was irrelevant.

Look, I'm not concerned with what anyone is as far as premill, postmill, amill and the like. You would have to study Revelation and it's historical content for me to even begin explaining the premise. John again gives the key in his opening remarks. "Done with signs and symbols". For example the number 1000. Seek the numerology of the time and you will find that John used it extensively. 666 is numerology...6 is a very bad number much the same as the number 13 carries an attachment today. The number 12 is perfection. 144000 is perfection times perfection. Way too much to do to explain.....and yes it is answered through out the book itself but it can't be answered by simply pondering what it means.

 

[eHuman]

The classic "turn around and come back" that I have had preached to me but not shown to me is the pre-trib stance. Jesus comes for us and raptures us, "but it's not counted as the return of Christ cause He doesn't "touch down" He just picks us up and brings us to Heaven". "Then", we are in Heaven for 7 years for the wedding feast and come back with Christ for His second coming.

My personal studies haven't been able to cause me to see that picture in the scripture. There is however one factor that makes it hard to fully shake things down and solidly put all of the pieces into their proper places. That is events that overlap chronologically. There are many that with persistent study (or obvious deduction) can be understood where they belong past, present, and future AND their ordinal rank (in order relative to each other I.E. 1st then 2nd). But not all are facts are easily discernible, (I.E 1st, then 3rd while 2nd starts in the middle of 1st and ends at the back end of 5th for example).

 

[eHuman]

The bottom line is that Jesus is coming back for those of us who are actually His to begin with. And when we find out what the real fullness of the story is we shouldn't be shocked that it is much differnt than we thought. At the same time I believe that there will be so much other things that will be just plain familiar. Ohhhhhh, God is one, we're in God... we're one..........Ohhhhh. LOL